I just pour the bottle into a beaker, extract with syringe, pour it back in container. No Problemo......and much faster than a lot of strategies.
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The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
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I just pour the bottle into a beaker, extract with syringe, pour it back in container. No Problemo......and much faster than a lot of strategies.
I tried a Cranapple recipe with TFA Apple and Cranberry. It's going to be different according to your taste profile, but I started at 10% apple and 3% cranberry. I was never thrilled with it. Based on a whole bunch of good info in the last few days in this thread I'm going to say my CranApple needed sweetness and a couple of creams to stabilize the juice. If I'm right or wrong, Bill will hopefully chime in.
Seriously consider reading backward in this thread 10 days or so and scope out Bill's Magic Vapor recipes. I think he's right on target for helping all of us go from pretty good to "wow, I could make money selling my pro level juice!"
Hope this helps. Main point is this: cranberry is stronger than Apple, IMO.
Tim
Thanks, Tim. So very nice of you!
Two Pies, vendor favorites:
Lemon Meringue Pie:
Lemon - 12%
Marshmallow - 6%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Cotton Candy - 5%
Graham Cracker - 3%
An ADV favorite of many, strangely enough. Spot on flavoring. One of my first uses of marshmallow....WOW! Notice our oh so familiar friends - Bavarian cream, cotton candy and graham cracker. Like the candyman, they make the world taste good. Sorry... BTW, always go water soluble if you can, and avoid the more corrosive flavorings that will take out your syringes, and some tanks. My mixes are of such high percentage blends, that I don't have any tank crackers.
Key Lime Pie:
Key Lime - 13%
Pie Crust - 3%
Whipped Cream - 2%
Sweetener - 3%
This one has been around in similar forms for a long time. The Key Lime is spot on and very strong. Another tank cracker, but not in juice. In other words, the Key Lime is very corrosive, until you mix in your juice, and then I've had no problems. Once mixed, it's NOT a tank killer. If you're not sure if you like key lime pie, then you've never tasted good key lime pie, and this one is spot on. Probably not an ADV, but two hours of heaven? Oh, yeah....
Both of these are marketable, and I love seeing people's faces when they vape them and say, "Wow, that's good, and tastes exactly like.....!" Like sorbet, remarkable palette cleaners, really. I love my pies, and these were early adopters, and really very easy. I think I gave you my chocolate cream pie earlier. It's really good too. Kind words...thank you. Ciao.
Totally agree with Tim. You can make mixes of mostly just several different fruits and get some okay results. But add the creams, sweetness and vanillas....that's where the good juice lives. I tried for a long time to make something like Fruit Loops using fruit flavorings that are easy to identify in the cereal....and you can all do this. and you can duplicate this too. But, isn't the deliciousness of Fruit Loops that last four or five spoonfuls in the bottom of the bowl with milk? I think so. So, what flavor does that sweet milk, syrupy, thick deliciousness? Dulce de Leche, say 2 - 3%. I always go for that bottom of the bowl flavor and it is richer and just as memorable as the dry cereal. I agree with Tim.
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Here's a Fruit Loops recipe:
Cherry - 9%
Raspberry - 8%
Dulce de Leche - 2%
Orange Cream - 1%
You could add sweetness to it like a cotton candy. That would be good. The Dulce de leche and the orange cream, though, are both sweet, so you wouldn't need much if you did go that way. Cherry is pretty sweet tasting too. I've seen more Fruit Loops recipes than almost any other flavoring. It's funny how we all remember our childhood cereals a little differently, and flavor to taste as we remember them. This one above, could easily be adjusted to introduce all kinds of different nuances. BTW, if you ever decide to do this commercially, you'll have to have a Fruit Loops! And an Apple Jacks!
Seems like some makers try to get that doughy hard cereal flavoring into their mixes and use things like acetyl pyrazine for example. I was never able to get this to work in cereals, myself, and I did try a number of "proven" recipes. No, when I decided to go for the milky bottom of bowl sweet stuff, cereals all really came to life. If someone has a good acetyl pyrazine cereal flavoring though, I'd like to try it. I have 4 oz of the stuff! Going for that doughy flavor, I've had better luck with my apple pie (which I don't use to make apple pie). Thank you and Good luck!
Cherry - 9%
Raspberry - 8%
Dulce de Leche - 2%
Orange Cream - 1%
You could add sweetness to it like a cotton candy. That would be good. The Dulce de leche and the orange cream, though, are both sweet, so you wouldn't need much if you did go that way. Cherry is pretty sweet tasting too. I've seen more Fruit Loops recipes than almost any other flavoring. It's funny how we all remember our childhood cereals a little differently, and flavor to taste as we remember them. This one above, could easily be adjusted to introduce all kinds of different nuances. BTW, if you ever decide to do this commercially, you'll have to have a Fruit Loops! And an Apple Jacks!
Seems like some makers try to get that doughy hard cereal flavoring into their mixes and use things like acetyl pyrazine for example. I was never able to get this to work in cereals, myself, and I did try a number of "proven" recipes. No, when I decided to go for the milky bottom of bowl sweet stuff, cereals all really came to life. If someone has a good acetyl pyrazine cereal flavoring though, I'd like to try it. I have 4 oz of the stuff! Going for that doughy flavor, I've had better luck with my apple pie (which I don't use to make apple pie). Thank you and Good luck!
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Anybody like candy bars? I love Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and Butterfinger, myself. Here's my Butter Finger:
Caramel - 8%
Peanut Butter - 6%
Cotton Candy - 2%
Double Chocolate - 1.5%
Milk Chocolate - 1.5%
Vanilla Swirl - 1%
Sweetener - 1%
This one is special. Not only is flavoring dead-on, but the aroma of this mix smells exactly like a butter finger, from about 4 feet away....and it's a good, and familiar aroma, too! Always an instant hit, and probably not an ADV (who eats candy bars 24/7), but a wonderful interlude to other daily vapes, and a good chocolate too. Chocolates are tricky/hard, so making them really good is a nice skill to learn. So, how to do this? I have found, once again, that mixing the double chocolate and milk chocolate with vanillas, creams and sweetener is the basic starting strategy. In the case of butterfinger, we add caramel and peanut butter, the predominant flavors with the chocolate. Also, this one does improve with age, though it's excellent right out of the tap. Over time this one thickens to a kinda syrup that is wonderful. I think the chocolate ones all may do this....I think mine all do.
Many vendors don't have good chocolates, so when you show up with the butter finger, the almond joy, the chocolate cream pie, etc., they can see you are the real deal. Good luck!
Caramel - 8%
Peanut Butter - 6%
Cotton Candy - 2%
Double Chocolate - 1.5%
Milk Chocolate - 1.5%
Vanilla Swirl - 1%
Sweetener - 1%
This one is special. Not only is flavoring dead-on, but the aroma of this mix smells exactly like a butter finger, from about 4 feet away....and it's a good, and familiar aroma, too! Always an instant hit, and probably not an ADV (who eats candy bars 24/7), but a wonderful interlude to other daily vapes, and a good chocolate too. Chocolates are tricky/hard, so making them really good is a nice skill to learn. So, how to do this? I have found, once again, that mixing the double chocolate and milk chocolate with vanillas, creams and sweetener is the basic starting strategy. In the case of butterfinger, we add caramel and peanut butter, the predominant flavors with the chocolate. Also, this one does improve with age, though it's excellent right out of the tap. Over time this one thickens to a kinda syrup that is wonderful. I think the chocolate ones all may do this....I think mine all do.
Many vendors don't have good chocolates, so when you show up with the butter finger, the almond joy, the chocolate cream pie, etc., they can see you are the real deal. Good luck!
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Thanks. I had read most of the thread. My problem is that I really don't like sweet or creamy flavors. That's one of the main reasons I started DIY. So I'm trying to do a tart, almost sour cranapple. Like the juice was originally, before high fructose corn syrup.
Just mixing the flavors straight and combining them in a dripper I'm happiest so far with about 2/3 FW cranberry at 12% and 1/3 Inawera Two Apples at 3 %. The TFA cranberry I started at 5% (just guessing) and have it up to 10% so far, and am still going up without really getting yet the cranberry sharpness that I'm looking for.
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Hey bill. I was wondering if you could explain to me the difference between vanilla custard and vanilla swirl. Thanks!
You mean besides that they taste differently?
Best way to tell the difference is by testing them. A custard is a sauce or a cream that includes vanilla, sugar, butter and egg yolk. Vanilla custard is a cream and stronger than Bavarian Cream. Vanilla Swirl is certainly the sweetest of the TFA vanillas, imho, and I use it as both a vanilla and a sweetener, and most often when I'm running out of head room at 30% flavoring. What I mean by this is that if I don't have enough room at 30% maximum to add both vanilla and sweetener/cotton candy, I will always use Vanilla Swirl.
TFA has some information about custard notes, diacetyl, and other ingredients that is important to read and understand:
"Introduction: I have received some calls from customers who wish to learn a bit more about some of the ingredients used in flavors. Specifically, there are 2 ingredients that have people curious. Acetyl propionyl and acetoin. Both of these ingredients are replacements for diacetyl, which is no longer being used by many (but not all) flavor manufacturers. There are some who still include diacetyl in their flavors, but it is not used as an ingredient in any of the flavors we offer. Athough acetyl propionyl and acetoin are regarded as safe for use in Food Flavors, there are studies being done as to whether there are problems with inhalation. I am no expert by any means on sensitivity and safety issues, I simply provide flavors that are Food Safe, but when customers call me with questions, I try to help in any way i can. Any time you have a flavor that has a vanilla-custardy type note to it, it will have one or both of acetyl propionyl and acetoin. There is also the possibility that there will be Diacetyl as an added ingredient, (the flavor manufacturing company that we purchase our flavors from is restricted by their insurance from using Diacetyl as an ingredient, because of employee environmental health issues, but this is not true of all flavor manufacturing companies). The flavor notes of diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin are rather obvious, and once a person learns how to recognize them, they are easy to spot. Just like once you know what cinnamon tastes like, you can usually tell if a cocoa recipe has cinnamon in it just by taste! Our vanilla custard is a good example. Pretty much by definition, a vanilla custard flavor, no matter who makes it, will have both acetoin and acetyl propionyl (or diacetyl) in it. Just like it would be hard to bake a cinnamon cookie with no cinnamon, it would be really hard (pretty much impossible) to create a vanilla custard flavor with no acetoin or acetyl propionyl (or diacetyl). If you would like to learn a bit how to tell the differences, you can compare our Vanilla Custard (which has both acetoin and acetyl propionyl), with our Vanilla Bean Ice Cream. The Vanilla Bean Ice cream does not have any acetoin in it, but otherwise is the same flavor as the Vanilla Custard. So by tasting the two, you can learn to taste the difference between them and learn what acetoin 'brings to the party'. I like to experiment by tasting flavors in Cool Whip. This is a good way to learn about ingredients. Remember that both Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl are perfectly safe for food-use, so there is absolutely no problem at all with tasting these flavors in Cool Whip or water or any other food. Then you can taste our original French Vanilla Flavor, which has neither acetoin nor acetyl propionyl, and compare with our French Vanilla Deluxe, or the Vanilla Beach Ice Cream, or the Vanilla Custard, which has them. You can see how the flavors are different. By learning how to recognize these flavor components, you will be more able to recognize them in flavors by other manufacturers too! Sometimes only a little bit of these "custardy" notes are added, just as a subtle nuance. For example our waffle has a little bit, but not nearly as much as the Vanilla Custard. So to help people, we are marking the main flavors that we know contain these two ingredients, so that if you choose you can avoid them altogether! Unfortunately, we might not know of all the flavors that may contain tiny "trace" amounts, but we marked them as best we know."
Diacetyl is the buttery taste we recognize on microwave popcorn. To my knowledge, TFA does not use diacetyl in any of their flavorings. Two cents...
Ah sorry that must have sounded like a stupid question huh. I asked because on a few threads, it's been suggested that vanilla swirl can be used to replace vanilla custard if anyone is concerned about diacetyl. So I guess I wanted to check and see if they're truly close enough to be substitutes (of course being aware that I will lose the eggy custard note)
Also as part of my plan to follow your advice to try each flavoring individually. Made a 5% TFA tiramisu mix.
That was the worst juice I've ever vaped in my life. I gagged so hard. Shudder. Ended up added a good amount of vanilla swirl and sweet cream to it.
I think it would be hard to make vanilla custard, without vanilla custard! Here's mine again:
Vanilla Custard - 13%
Sweetener - 6%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream - 3.5%
Eggnog - 2%
Smooth - 2%
Butter - 2%
Graham Cracker - 1.5%
A nice 30% mix, popular too. Good luck!
And to reiterate, there is no diecetyl in any of TFA flavors. Acetoin and acetyl propionyl, yes, and in the minuscule amounts not harmful.
LOL....I beg your pardon.....Ok, we are testing the individual flavorings to determine starting flavoring on PREDOMINANT FLAVORINGS, and we are also trying to get a sense about mixes with particular flavors, flavor strengths, compatible flavor possibilities, etc. Most flavors are NOT going to work as single flavors. The best juice is mixed, and we need to learn what goes with what, and in what amount, so to speak. Testing individually provides clues. When testing, think about additives, blends, how this flavor could enhance another flavor and keep copious notes. I use a Juice Journal, and write about ideas, formulations, recipes, etc. Once you get a nice blend/mix like cotton candy, graham cracker and Bavarian cream, write about it, remember it. For example, Once you make a good strawberries and cream, you can make many other fruit creams as well. If you can make a strawberries and cream, you can also make a peaches and cream, for example. If you can make one custard, you can many other custards. Same applies to creams, meringues, pies, etc. So, keep these close by in the Journal, and keep in mind. Good luck!
Vanilla Swirl is Vanilla Custard with the "custard notes" removed, (for those concerned about vaping diacetyl).
Taste is good but not the quite the same as custard, and some prefer CAP Vanilla Custard v2.
Really hard to get a good Custard without the bad stuff, although FA does have a safe Custard, but it's more like an Italian Custard, different.
Tirimisu, like most other Coffee/Capp flavorings are very strong, like maybe 1-3 drops in 10ml.
Then yes, I use lots of Vanilla and Cream, and maybe some Caramel and Chocolate too, lol.
Still not a great vape to me though because so many others are way better.
Very hard to come up with a single flavor percentage for vanillas or creams, plus a few others.
Some are just meant to be mixers only, more like adding spices to a food recipe.
My first attempts at Vanilla Custard used the Capella Flavorings for Vanilla Custard, Eggnog and Butter. I still have them. I dutifully followed the many suggestions to be found here and there, but found that steeping time was excessive. The eggnog, I believe, provided a nasty taste that just took three or four or five weeks to settle down, for the juice to be vaped. In time, I began to realize that juice should taste really good right off the bat, and that steeping should allow really good juice to become great, but that fair juice would never be great, no matter how long it steeped. The eggnog literally had to disappear before the juice was any good, and a long steep time was really more an indication of a bad recipe, not a fixed requirement for making good juice. That tidbit was helpful.
I did also check the swirl/custard relationship, and TFA/Linda has/had this to say, as you had indicated in your post:
"This [Vanilla Swirl] is our vanilla custard flavor that has had the "Custard Notes" removed. It is a very useful vanilla, good on it's own, or used in blends."
Very interesting. I had thought the Swirl was a bit sweeter than the Custard, and often use it that way. Gotta run, Ciao!
I like the Orange Cream at 10-12%, with Vanilla Swirl 3%, and Sweet Cream 2%.
It does need a few days to settle in, but the Orange will fade in 3-4 weeks IMO.
Someday I wanna try some Vanilla Bean Gelato with this, if I can ever find some in stock when ordering a new batch of flavorings.
I've heard the same about Eggnog, takes forever to quit tasting nasty, lol.
I think I prefer Vanilla Swirl for that reason too, sweeter/creamier.
Thought the plain Custard was bitter, but it may have been the recipe itself, but it was long time ago, when first starting DIY.
May have to revisit that flavor again someday.
Although I seem to like the Cheesecakes more than the Custards but I don't know why, lol.
And I like most all my stuff with creamy-vanilla notes too.
Not too worry. I use the Orange cream in my fruit Loops, for example, and it's an excellent mixer with all sorts of potential possibilities, imho. Good luck with that!
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