The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Interesting questions today, and what I call the "tricks of the trade", so to speak. For example, here's a couple:

1. Cooler flavors expand and enrichen flatter bases flavorings, though they can still stay "thin"
2. Creams and vanillas thicken and expand bases flavorings
3. Sweeteners and Cotton Candy make just about every base better tasting, imho, flavor to taste
4. If you start to get that weird taste with flavors like grape, often called chemical, floral, spicy, etc., try adding some raspberry or strawberry
5. Two flavors can taste one way when separate, but completely different when mixed. Fruit flavorings are central to the bases of most non-extract tobacco bases, for example.
6. Sometimes, the solution to chemical flavoring is more flavoring with nuanced flavorings, NOT LESS BASE FLAVORING
7. Use my simple guide to find the sweet spot of any flavoring. They all have a sweet spot. You have to know this range before you add the supporting flavorings:

View attachment Flavoring Chart.pdf

8. Good juice is just that right after mixing (within 2 hours of flavor/base blending). If a juice takes weeks to steep, it's not good juice. Good juice can become great with steeping. But bad juice will never become great, no matter how long it steeps, imho. I know this flies in the face of what many think, but this has been my experience. Also, a lot of experienced juice makers ascribe to the same thinking. Just sayin'...
9. Base flavorings often are not great, but they are not meant to be stand alone single flavorings. They need supporting flavors added. Chocolates need vanillas, creams, and sweeteners added, for example, just like real chocolate. Many flavor bases are just that....BASE FLAVORS....AND NOT FINISHED FLAVORS.
10. Many base flavors will need vanillas, creams and sweeteners added before they will taste good, at all. This is normal. If the bases came pre-flavored with all these ingredients, how could we then get them to flavor to preference? Makes sense, right?
All I can think of this moment, but will do a shout out as I remember others. Good luck!

 

[TheKiwi]

That was a great response. Thanks and I'll keep that in mind next time I try. Can't wait to do up your cinnamon Danish recipe. Sounds awfully delicius

 

[readeuler]

Here is my Grape Jolly Rancher mix:

Grape Candy 10%
Cotton Candy 2% (was easier to use than EM, basically same thing)

Normally mixed at 50/50 & 12mg. Nothing too fancy here!

Thanks for the recipe! I'll definitely be trying this out. I placed my order yesterday, including 12 8-ml flavor stuffs, including EM. I know my order included those two, so I'll be giving it a whirl sometime in the coming week, hopefully.

 

[clnire]

One note about chocolate. From my experience the flavor is always enhanced by the addition of a little vanilla. Even food brownies have vanilla added. Seems to carry over. Just enough to bring out the chocolate, not to taste vanilla.

 

[Yohkos]

I know this is an old post, but if someone comes around like I did much much later, I also have a suggestion. I make a couple of ejuice recipes when I am making ejuice and so I don't want to put them in my big ole crockpot, so I found a popurri thingy that looks like a very tiny crock pot and put them in there to heat up. It heats 2 or three bottles and doesn't get overly heated and doesn't take much room on the counter. You can also buy them in the store real cheap.

 

[Yohkos]

When I first started vaping I had a kahlua that was really good. I don't remember where I got from.

My question is, do y'all think Kahlua, some type vanilla and caramel would make a good juice or should I add something else? I haven't put it together yet, but would love to hear if I am even on the right track

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

When I first started vaping I had a kahlua that was really good. I don't remember where I got from.

My question is, do y'all think Kahlua, some type vanilla and caramel would make a good juice or should I add something else? I haven't put it together yet, but would love to hear if I am even on the right track

I haven't made it, but the ingredients are not difficult to figure out. Kahlua is a coffee and rum drink from Mexico and includes sugar cane and vanilla bean. So, my recipe would start with and include:

Kahlua:

Caramel Capp, coffee, and/or cappuccino
Bavarian Cream
Vanilla Bean, Gelato, French Vanilla, and/or Vanillin
Cotton Candy or Sweetener
Jamaican Rum, and possibly
Caramel

I would probably opt for Caramel Capp, rather than both coffee and caramel, but I wouldn't know which way to go until I tested both. One of the vanillas mentioned would get you there, along with one of the sweeteners. I may opt for Vanilla bourbon, and I wouldn't go hard at all on the Jamaican rum. Flavor to taste. No idea on percentages, but these would be good starts to figure it out. Also, caramel capp and irish cream might get you there with some vanilla and sweet cream, so food for thought.

Also, TFA makes a Kahlua and cream flavoring. Haven't tried it yet, and it may not be strong enough in particular elements, but it may be able to be enhanced. Good luck!

 

[mattiem]

Maybe one of you experts or at least more knowledgeable folks than me can help me out.

I mixed this up

8% Coconut Candy
5% Toasted Almond
3% English Toffee
3% Chocolate
1.5% Vanilla custard
Sweetener-1 drop per each 3ml

It is very good but it has a very slight bitter taste. What do you think I could add or take away to remove that bitter bite? All thoughts and hints will be very welcome.

BTW: All flavors except the English Toffee are TFA flavors. It is Loranns. I have ordered TFA English toffee but it won't be here 'til the middle of the week.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Maybe one of you experts or at least more knowledgeable folks than me can help me out.

I mixed this up

8% Coconut Candy
5% Toasted Almond
3% English Toffee
3% Chocolate
1.5% Vanilla custard
Sweetener-1 drop per each 3ml

It is very good but it has a very slight bitter taste. What do you think I could add or take away to remove that bitter bite? All thoughts and hints will be very welcome.

BTW: All flavors except the English Toffee are TFA flavors. It is Loranns. I have ordered TFA English toffee but it won't be here 'til the middle of the week.

8%+ on sweeteners
11% on base flavors
1.5% on vanilla Custard????

Needs more creams/vanillas. Add 5% Bavarian Cream, increase vanilla custard to 3%, and you might have enough creams/vanillas to round it out. You may even need 1 or 2% more. Flavor to taste and until the harshness is no longer detectable. Good luck!

 

[mattiem]

8%+ on sweeteners
11% on base flavors
1.5% on vanilla Custard????

Needs more creams/vanillas. Add 5% Bavarian Cream, increase vanilla custard to 3%, and you might have enough creams/vanillas to round it out. You may even need 1 or 2% more. Flavor to taste and until the harshness is no longer detectable. Good luck!

Thank you. I kinda thought it needed more cream but wasn't sure if I should just add more VC or add another cream flavor. I LOVE Bavarian Cream so this sounds good to me. Will let you know how it turns out.

 

[amoret]

Maybe one of you experts or at least more knowledgeable folks than me can help me out.

I mixed this up

8% Coconut Candy
5% Toasted Almond
3% English Toffee
3% Chocolate
1.5% Vanilla custard
Sweetener-1 drop per each 3ml

It is very good but it has a very slight bitter taste. What do you think I could add or take away to remove that bitter bite? All thoughts and hints will be very welcome.

BTW: All flavors except the English Toffee are TFA flavors. It is Loranns. I have ordered TFA English toffee but it won't be here 'til the middle of the week.

Had you tried the LorAnn English Toffee by itself first? When I was comparing English Toffee flavors (haven't tried the TFA yet) the LorAnn was pretty awful. No resemblance to toffee at all, just kind of chemically nasty.

 

[mattiem]

Had you tried the LorAnn English Toffee by itself first? When I was comparing English Toffee flavors (haven't tried the TFA yet) the LorAnn was pretty awful. No resemblance to toffee at all, just kind of chemically nasty.

I know I should have given it a test run first but it just smelled so good. If I still have the slight bitter taste once I follow Bills advice I will just start over once my TFA English toffee gets here. Thank you bunches.

 

[mattiem]

It is now

8% Coconut Candy
5% Toasted Almond
3% English Toffee
3% Chocolate
5% Bavarian Cream
3% Vanilla custard
Sweetener-1 drop per each 3ml

And with no steeping time it is already better I am amazed that I can still taste my coconut.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

It is now

8% Coconut Candy
5% Toasted Almond
3% English Toffee
3% Chocolate
5% Bavarian Cream
3% Vanilla custard
Sweetener-1 drop per each 3ml

And with no steeping time it is already better I am amazed that I can still taste my coconut.

Couple of questions, my friend:

1. Is the chemical taste now gone?
2. Are the creams and vanillas overpowering the base flavors?
3. Are the base flavors enhanced, meaning richer, bolder, more pronounced?
4. Are the flavors "thicker", richer, rounded and enhanced?
5. Is the juice sweet enough?
6. Forget steeping for the moment. Would you say it's good, really good, or great now? And....how was it before, i.e., not good, fair, good, really good or great?
7. Can you taste the vanilla? Can you taste the Bavarian Cream?
8. Are there any flavors you cannot taste?
9. What flavors stand out the most?

I am very curious about your take on the taste now versus previously. If you can give me the best information possible, then I can learn a lot from your before and after recipes, and I would be grateful. Many thanks! Good luck, and kindest regards!

 

[Dixie1954]

Ok I need some help of where to start on the *original* French Vanilla, they have 2 at least

 

[mattiem]

Couple of questions, my friend:

1. Is the chemical taste now gone?
2. Are the creams and vanillas overpowering the base flavors?
3. Are the base flavors enhanced, meaning richer, bolder, more pronounced?
4. Are the flavors "thicker", richer, rounded and enhanced?
5. Is the juice sweet enough?
6. Forget steeping for the moment. Would you say it's good, really good, or great now? And....how was it before, i.e., not good, fair, good, really good or great?
7. Can you taste the vanilla? Can you taste the Bavarian Cream?
8. Are there any flavors you cannot taste?
9. What flavors stand out the most?

I am very curious about your take on the taste now versus previously. If you can give me the best information possible, then I can learn a lot from your before and after recipes, and I would be grateful. Many thanks! Good luck, and kindest regards!

I am kinda tired tonight but want to answer your questions in as much detail as possible. I will get back to you tomorrow when I am feeling more alert.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I purchased some different samplers way back when from TFA, and learned a great deal about so many of their flavors. Today, TFA has a 144 flavor sampler which I think is just outstanding for taste testing/aroma testing. $140 is a lot of change, but it's a lot less than buying these in 4 oz bottles at five to eight times this cost. You can find this sampler here:

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-7295-box-of-144-4ml-flavors.aspx

These little 4ml samplers are certainly enough to construct many mixes using the drops method we have talked about, i.e., one drop equals 1% in complex mixes. There's about 80 to 150 drops (depending on dropper size) in a 4 ml bottle, and even at 10% (10 drops), you can easily construct say 8 - 1 5 different recipes with each one! That's a very good deal. You can try almost any recipe on this thread with this one Sampler Kit. That's amazing, and I highly recommend it. I still have about 80 samplers, and use them all the time to test different mixes and additives. They have saved me tons of money over time too. Give it some thought and good luck!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Ok I need some help of where to start on the *original* French Vanilla, they have 2 at least

Try 5 - 10% for each and test them both. So, 5% mix, add 1 drop French Vanilla to 19 drops PG/VG. For 10%, mix 2 drops French Vanilla to 18 drops PG/VG. You may find the sweet spot between those two test. Also, are you wanting to know for use as a primary flavoring, or as a supporting flavor?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I am kinda tired tonight but want to answer your questions in as much detail as possible. I will get back to you tomorrow when I am feeling more alert.

Thank you. I look forward to it. Manana!

 

[Dixie1954]

Try 5 - 10% for each and test them both. So, 5% mix, add 1 drop French Vanilla to 19 drops PG/VG. For 10%, mix 2 drops French Vanilla to 18 drops PG/VG. You may find the sweet spot between those two test. Also, are you wanting to know for use as a primary flavoring, or as a supporting flavor?

I want to get the flavor right and also eventually use with other flavors, such as a tobacco flavor. I am not into fruits and such. Thank you so much for your time