The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[tdtyler]

Having some problems with some flavors, 2 groups that seem to all taste very similar. Apricot, lychee and hibiscus all seem to have this weird sweet/rotten kind of taste. And then malted milk, strawberries and cream and another one I don't remember taste sort of dusty, hard to explain it. Anyone else noticed that and does it go away with steeping or am I mixing them too strong or what.
I use a stock IGO-L with a single 28g coil around 1.8 ohms, about 11 wraps on a 2mm drill bit. Very easy build and great flavor. Very cheap too, can get them for $10-$15. If you are having heat problems it's probably an airflow issue, assuming the wick is wet enough. Make sure your coil is situated between the air hole and drip tip, you want a stream of air flowing over the coil, that cools it down and produces the most vapor, from what I've seen.

I use a Trident V2 Clone. It has 7 different adjustable air flow, single or dual coil (I prefer single). The most important part to me though, is the wick. I use Rayon Fiber. Compared to cotton, it appears to burn cleaner, stay wet longer, and when it does dry...I don't get that extremely burnt taste. After burning off what juice is still left on there, I can switch flavors most of the times, and not have a single trace of the previous flavor.

Here ya go! I have lots of these; for me they last a LONG time. Put in about 6-7 drips of juice and let them sit for a few minutes. Top off with a few more drops (not too much!) and vape away. To clean, I run then under hot water so the water drips out the 510 connector end. Blow through the 510 connector end, repeat. If you try a strong flavor, a soak in plain cheap vodka and a good rinse does the job.

5 Pcs GS-Bridgeless 3-Hole Colorful Electronic Cigarette Atomizer - Random Color

Dear people... Thanks for these great responses. I really appreciate it.

Tim

 

[mattiem]

Couple of questions, my friend:

1. Is the chemical taste now gone?
2. Are the creams and vanillas overpowering the base flavors?
3. Are the base flavors enhanced, meaning richer, bolder, more pronounced?
4. Are the flavors "thicker", richer, rounded and enhanced?
5. Is the juice sweet enough?
6. Forget steeping for the moment. Would you say it's good, really good, or great now? And....how was it before, i.e., not good, fair, good, really good or great?
7. Can you taste the vanilla? Can you taste the Bavarian Cream?
8. Are there any flavors you cannot taste?
9. What flavors stand out the most?

I am very curious about your take on the taste now versus previously. If you can give me the best information possible, then I can learn a lot from your before and after recipes, and I would be grateful. Many thanks! Good luck, and kindest regards!

1. Is the chemical taste now gone?
I am still tasting just a hint of the bitter taste I was trying to overcome. I may still need just a touch more Vanila Custard. I think the Bavarian Cream is perfect at 5 %.....It may be coming from my nic base since I detect it in several of my one flavor mixes.

2. Are the creams and vanillas overpowering the base flavors?
Not at all.

3. Are the base flavors enhanced, meaning richer, bolder, more pronounced?
The addition of more of the creams have enhanced the the base flavors specially the Coconut.

4. Are the flavors "thicker", richer, rounded and enhanced?
I would have to say, Yes, It taste like eating a piece of rich Coconut Cream Pie to me.

5. Is the juice sweet enough?
I love a sweet juice but I think with the addition of the BC and upping the amount of VC I need to cut back on the amount of sweetener.

6. Forget steeping for the moment. Would you say it's good, really good, or great now? And....how was it before, i.e., not good, fair, good, really good or great?
Right now it is really good....before the additions it was just good and in need of adjustments. If I can overcome the super slight bitter taste it will be great.

7. Can you taste the vanilla? Can you taste the Bavarian Cream?
My taste buds aren't very well developed so I do have a hard time separating flavors. With that said. I can taste both the Coconut and Toasted Almond. The vanillas are there but don't stand out.

8. Are there any flavors you cannot taste?
I don't taste the chocolate

9. What flavors stand out the most?
I first taste the Coconut but also detect the Toasted Almond and the English Toffee but very slightly in the background.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

1. Is the chemical taste now gone?
I am still tasting just a hint of the bitter taste I was trying to overcome. I may still need just a touch more Vanila Custard. I think the Bavarian Cream is perfect at 5 %.....It may be coming from my nic base since I detect it in several of my one flavor mixes.

2. Are the creams and vanillas overpowering the base flavors?
Not at all.

3. Are the base flavors enhanced, meaning richer, bolder, more pronounced?
The addition of more of the creams have enhanced the the base flavors specially the Coconut.

4. Are the flavors "thicker", richer, rounded and enhanced?
I would have to say, Yes, It taste like eating a piece of rich Coconut Cream Pie to me.

5. Is the juice sweet enough?
I love a sweet juice but I think with the addition of the BC and upping the amount of VC I need to cut back on the amount of sweetener.

6. Forget steeping for the moment. Would you say it's good, really good, or great now? And....how was it before, i.e., not good, fair, good, really good or great?
Right now it is really good....before the additions it was just good and in need of adjustments. If I can overcome the super slight bitter taste it will be great.

7. Can you taste the vanilla? Can you taste the Bavarian Cream?
My taste buds aren't very well developed so I do have a hard time separating flavors. With that said. I can taste both the Coconut and Toasted Almond. The vanillas are there but don't stand out.

8. Are there any flavors you cannot taste?
I don't taste the chocolate

9. What flavors stand out the most?
I first taste the Coconut but also detect the Toasted Almond and the English Toffee but very slightly in the background.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer all these questions! Your experience exactly matches my own, and much can be learned from them. Let's elaborate about them:

1. Adding creams and vanillas did not substantially change the flavor of the base (toffee, coconut, and toasted almond), but did super charge the bases, particularly the coconut. As another member posited, this seems counter-intuitive, but it is borne out by experience. Vanillas and creams do not overpower the bases, but rather super-charge the base flavorings by adding depth, richness, creaminess, and yumminess, also allowing reduction to sweeteners.
2. Adding the creams and vanillas reduced, and usually eliminates the chemical, bitter, floral and spicy flavors, as it also did here for you. A thought, since you cannot taste the chocolate, and because the chocolate is BITTER, remove it. This may fix the mix. If it doesn't, I would reduce the "offending" base flavoring.
3. The creams and vanillas did add a rich, thicker, more enhanced flavoring to the mix.

I have these exact same experiences myself, day in and day out. The bitterness issue is caused by either too much of one of the base flavorings, or not enough of the supporting flavorings. I would first reduce the bases one at a time, until the offending flavoring is gone, and then complete the recipe. Sounds like you are very close. Thanks again. Very helpful!

 

[mattiem]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer all these questions! Your experience exactly matches my own, and much can be learned from them. Let's elaborate about them:

1. Adding creams and vanillas did not substantially change the flavor of the base (toffee, coconut, and toasted almond), but did super charge the bases, particularly the coconut. As another member posited, this seems counter-intuitive, but it is borne out by experience. Vanillas and creams do not overpower the bases, but rather super-charge the base flavorings by adding depth, richness, creaminess, and yumminess, also allowing reduction to sweeteners.
2. Adding the creams and vanillas reduced, and usually eliminates the chemical, bitter, floral and spicy flavors, as it also did here for you. A thought, since you cannot taste the chocolate, and because the chocolate is BITTER, remove it. This may fix the mix. If it doesn't, I would reduce the "offending" base flavoring.
3. The creams and vanillas did add a rich, thicker, more enhanced flavoring to the mix.

I have these exact same experiences myself, day in and day out. The bitterness issue is caused by either too much of one of the base flavorings, or not enough of the supporting flavorings. I would first reduce the bases one at a time, until the offending flavoring is gone, and then complete the recipe. Sounds like you are very close. Thanks again. Very helpful!

You are very welcome. I hope my experience will help someone else along the way.

 

[tdtyler]

I know. Every time I get on here and read about different juices, my TFA bill goes up as well. A request by a vendor for a private label tobacco Thursday resulted in an $85 bill today. Here's what I'm thinking about a signature tobacco:

RY4 - 2%
M Type - 2%
Turkish - 2%
Black Honey - 2%
Bavarian Cream - 2%
Caramel - 3%
Sweetener - 3%
Vanilla Bourbon - 3%
Hazelnut - 3%
Smooth - 2%

So, this has several of the preferred tobacco flavorings in it, so probably many tobacco flavor lovers will find something to like about it. Then accentuate the more flavorful (imho) ingredients, i.e., the caramel and vanilla/Bavarian Cream, the nuttiness of hazelnut (maybe), and Sweetener, of course. A 20 something percent juice that I'll have to flavor to taste when my supplies come in. I have a lot of old tobaccos from a couple of years ago, but they're from MFS, and I don't really use them anymore. My old favorites were Red Lights (USA light), and Desert Ship (Turkish). Won't be able to tell you anything definitive until we get the mixes going in the Lab. The smooth should make a nice thick rounded blend of the tobaccos, while the nuanced flavors will add some depth and body and interest. Might be pretty good. Likely a good start...

Again, mixing by drops (1 drop = 1%), it's fairly easy to test this out. I will try and find the sweet spot of the tobaccos before I begin the mix. That's always the first step, but I believe 6 - 8% tobacco flavoring is pretty normal. So, we shall see.

Bill, I saw your post earlier. You may recall I'm working on tobaccos and was disappointed (privately) that you weren't mixing tobaccos. Well look at that! You've now had a request and are working on one. I'm thrilled and I'll be bugging you to post your results as you go along on this special request.

My wife and I are vaping this recipe:

TFA M Type Premium @ 0.5%
TFA EM @ 2%

This isn't a complicated recipe, but I thought you might be interested in what we're experiencing. There is a definite tobacco flavor on the intake and a "sage" spice and tobacco on the exhale. Some would be repulsed, I'm sure, but we actually like it.

Looking at your list, the only tobacco I don't have is Black Honey. I will order some, especially if you come up with something you're happy about.

I have MTS from TFA. That is "mellow, thick, and smooth" correct? Is that what you're calling "Smooth" in the recipe above?

I never would have thought to put Bavarian Cream in a tobacco recipe, but I will now. Caramel is assumed since it's in real analogs.

What is your reasoning for leaving out TFA Brown Sugar (Extra) or regular Brown Sugar? Any chance the Brown Sugar would take the place of sweetener?

Okay, back to lurk mode as I watch for updates on the tobacco odyssey.

Thank you, Bill!

Tim

 

[tdtyler]

To all...

I want to verify something Bill said a while ago. If you're on this DIY odyssey, your vaporizing equipment definitely matters - a lot! I confirm that as my equipment got better the consistency of flavor from one batch to the next became a factor. I could really tell when I goofed up on one ingredient. I prefer to build my own coils and use organic cotton as wicking material. I haven't had much experience or success with Rebuildable Drip Atomizers, but my coil building and wicking is now routine and a no-brainer. So, consider your budget and don't leave out improving your equipment if you haven't settled on anything specific.

Two cents (as Bill would say).

Tim

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Bill, I saw your post earlier. You may recall I'm working on tobaccos and was disappointed (privately) that you weren't mixing tobaccos. Well look at that! You've now had a request and are working on one. I'm thrilled and I'll be bugging you to post your results as you go along on this special request.

My wife and I are vaping this recipe:

TFA M Type Premium @ 0.5%
TFA EM @ 2%

This isn't a complicated recipe, but I thought you might be interested in what we're experiencing. There is a definite tobacco flavor on the intake and a "sage" spice and tobacco on the exhale. Some would be repulsed, I'm sure, but we actually like it.

Looking at your list, the only tobacco I don't have is Black Honey. I will order some, especially if you come up with something you're happy about.

I have MTS from TFA. That is "mellow, thick, and smooth" correct? Is that what you're calling "Smooth" in the recipe above?

I never would have thought to put Bavarian Cream in a tobacco recipe, but I will now. Caramel is assumed since it's in real analogs.

What is your reasoning for leaving out TFA Brown Sugar (Extra) or regular Brown Sugar? Any chance the Brown Sugar would take the place of sweetener?

Okay, back to lurk mode as I watch for updates on the tobacco odyssey.

Thank you, Bill!

Tim

TFA Smooth is actually titled that way.

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-7628-smooth-flavor.aspx, or bulk:

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-7422-smooth-flavor.aspx

I like your suggestion for brown sugar. I'm adding it to my notes right now. The flavors I need have been ordered, and should arrive this week, but I probably won't start working on a tobacco until this weekend. Remember, whatever I come up with will be flavored for my tastes, and since I don't like tobaccos, this should be interesting, lol. I'm going for a good, all-around tobacco base flavoring with strong nuanced supporting flavors to make it delicious as well. Quite a challenge. Unless we combine several tobacco's, we can't get enough all-around notes to make it have a wide-appeal, or so goes my current thinking. So, two, three or four tobacco flavorings. The reasoning on the Bavarian cream is that I want a creamy caramel flavoring, not a harsh, candy or straight flavoring. This will be a careful blend as I'm not going for Bavarian cream.

No matter what I do, some will like it, others not so much, but as long as it's not entirely initially offensive, new vapers may not be able to tell the differences much anyway. I know I won't vape it, lol. Also, a flavoring like this has to be tested in the real world, so I'll likely make four or five variations and give them to vendors to test with "walk-up" vapers. Sounds like fun to me. Best!~

 

[tdtyler]

I like your suggestion for brown sugar. I'm adding it to my notes right now. The flavors I need have been ordered, and should arrive this week, but I probably won't start working on a tobacco until this weekend. Remember, whatever I come up with will be flavored for my tastes, and since I don't like tobaccos, this should be interesting, lol. I'm going for a good, all-around tobacco base flavoring with strong nuanced supporting flavors to make it delicious as well. Quite a challenge. Unless we combine several tobacco's, we can't get enough all-around notes to make it have a wide-appeal, or so goes my current thinking. So, two, three or four tobacco flavorings. The reasoning on the Bavarian cream is that I want a creamy caramel flavoring, not a harsh, candy or straight flavoring. This will be a careful blend as I'm not going for Bavarian cream.

No matter what I do, some will like it, others not so much, but as long as it's not entirely initially offensive, new vapers may not be able to tell the differences much anyway. I know I won't vape it, lol. Also, a flavoring like this has to be tested in the real world, so I'll likely make four or five variations and give them to vendors to test with "walk-up" vapers. Sounds like fun to me. Best!~

Hi Bill!

Okay. I got it. I see Smooth is a real "flavor." Hmmmm... I have MTS and there is definitely chocolate in that concoction. I haven't used it in anything. So, I must now put some "Smooth" in my cart at TFA. It's already back up to half a C note!!! ACK!

If you do experiment with Brown Sugar, be very careful with Brown Sugar Extra. There is no hint in any description of how strong it is. I have it and it is **POTENT**.

If you want a guinea pig, or a "walk up vaper" I'll pay shipping on a test mix that you think is good. In the meantime, I'll patiently watch and wait for your final percentages and variations.

Black Honey is in my cart at TFA. What about Mild Black? Ever do anything with that?

And how correct you are! No matter what you do, some will like it and some won't. Another tell-tale sign you've been at it a while.

Thanks, Bill! Enjoying your guided tour down this road immensely!

Tim

 

[Steven Pye]

I just mixed:
clove 2%
vanillin 2%
tobacco flavor 3%

stuck it in a hot bath

I am hoping to get something that taste like Azure Vaping's Rob's Blackjack

I am not sure what all of the spice notes are in Blackjack- but I do know vanilla, clove, and tobacco are all present

 

[tdtyler]

I just mixed:
clove 2%
vanillin 2%
tobacco flavor 3%

stuck it in a hot bath

I am hoping to get something that taste like Azure Vaping's Rob's Blackjack

I am not sure what all of the spice notes are in Blackjack- but I do know vanilla, clove, and tobacco are all present

Oh no! Now I have to add Clove to my cart!!

Steven, will you post changes you make to your recipe? I'm going to try this one, too.

Tim

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hi Bill!

Okay. I got it. I see Smooth is a real "flavor." Hmmmm... I have MTS and there is definitely chocolate in that concoction. I haven't used it in anything. So, I must now put some "Smooth" in my cart at TFA. It's already back up to half a C note!!! ACK!

If you do experiment with Brown Sugar, be very careful with Brown Sugar Extra. There is no hint in any description of how strong it is. I have it and it is **POTENT**.

If you want a guinea pig, or a "walk up vaper" I'll pay shipping on a test mix that you think is good. In the meantime, I'll patiently watch and wait for your final percentages and variations.

Black Honey is in my cart at TFA. What about Mild Black? Ever do anything with that?

And how correct you are! No matter what you do, some will like it and some won't. Another tell-tale sign you've been at it a while.

Thanks, Bill! Enjoying your guided tour down this road immensely!

Tim

Yeah, I have both brown sugars. They may work, we shall see. Thank you for the advise! I use them both in several recipes. I'll post one later. Recipe a day?

I know what you mean about TFA cart and how it affects the bottom line. I'm in for 900 clams since June (OMG). Don't tell the missus....and, I've got a C Note in there now, waiting.....

Ok, I formally request you as my guinea pig/assistant juice tester for this tobacco. PM me the address details.

Have not used Mild Black, or Black Honey, for that matter. I like the idea of a most popular pipe flavoring in the juice though as ONE of the tobaccos. It will have familiar notes to many, and needs to be in there.

Thanks for the encouragement, my friend. Some days/weeks, I really need it. Lonely in the Vape Lab....like the gym...

I may consolidate recipes some day by type....like Pie Day - half a dozen, or more recipes. And just show them all at once. May be a good reference...?

One day soon, one of these new mixes is going to be named after my son, Brandon. Brandon's Choice Tobacco? Maybe...

Ciao!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I just mixed:
clove 2%
vanillin 2%
tobacco flavor 3%

stuck it in a hot bath

I am hoping to get something that taste like Azure Vaping's Rob's Blackjack

I am not sure what all of the spice notes are in Blackjack- but I do know vanilla, clove, and tobacco are all present

Never used clove, but see it all the time in recipes. Good?

 

[Steven Pye]

Oh no! Now I have to add Clove to my cart!!

Steven, will you post changes you make to your recipe? I'm going to try this one, too.

Tim

you bet!

 

[pany]

Hi to everyone in this lovely thread. I've gone through most of the pages and have taken note of most of the recipes posted here. Bill seems really helpfull and I am glad he is giving so many information.
As I am just starting to use TFA concentrates, I was wondering if there is a list of the most usefull flavors I should get with my first order. There are so many I cannot just order all of them!!!

Any suggestion Bill on where to start?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hi to everyone in this lovely thread. I've gone through most of the pages and have taken note of most of the recipes posted here. Bill seems really helpfull and I am glad he is giving so many information.
As I am just starting to use TFA concentrates, I was wondering if there is a list of the most usefull flavors I should get with my first order. There are so many I cannot just order all of them!!!

Any suggestion Bill on where to start?

Depends, of course, on what type of juice you like, i.e., deserts, tobaccos, fruits, etc. I focus on desert type juices myself, and they are my favorite, so I can only speak to that POV. I would start with these (I have them in the "big" bottles):

1. Bavarian Cream and Sweet Cream
2. Vanilla Swirl - there are so many vanillas, and I have them all, and use them all, but you have to start somewhere, right?
3. Cotton Candy and Sweetener
4. Vanilla Custard
5. Graham Cracker (clear)
6. Strawberry

The rest I would purchase as I need them to make specific recipes. These, though, you'll use all the time, and they make great mixes. You can add Bavarian Cream, Vanilla Swirl, and Cotton Candy to almost anything and make it great. Delicious together. My .

 

[pany]

Those are actually the flavors I was thinking about. Going through the TPA site though, I noticed that these flavors contain acetoin and I am just having second thoughts.
What is your opinion on the matter?

 

[tdtyler]

Hi to everyone in this lovely thread. I've gone through most of the pages and have taken note of most of the recipes posted here. Bill seems really helpfull and I am glad he is giving so many information.
As I am just starting to use TFA concentrates, I was wondering if there is a list of the most usefull flavors I should get with my first order. There are so many I cannot just order all of them!!!

Any suggestion Bill on where to start?

Bill's list is perfect, Pany. If I may speak from experience... Avoid (for now) coffee and chocolate unless you're going to follow a recipe from Bill or one of the other "veterans."

I love cinnamon - so I have an apple cinnamon (stupidly simple recipe) that I vape in the late evening when I'm playing games. Cinnamon Crimson Hots is what I like at about 3% with my apple. The other cinnamons are true cinnamon spice. Big floral note and NOT what I wanted. I wanted the candy type. I'm pretty sure it has eugenol in it.

Diacetyl is what you don't want. The acetoin and acetyl propionyl in the trace amounts aren't harmful. Anyone else can thoroughly trash me if I'm wrong.

Tim

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Those are actually the flavors I was thinking about. Going through the TPA site though, I noticed that these flavors contain acetoin and I am just having second thoughts.
What is your opinion on the matter?

Acetoin is not Diacetyl, and in small amounts, like the TFA flavorings, is no different than what we eat everyday in our food. Diacetyl is a problem, acetoin is not, imho. Also, they're already in everyone's flavorings, whether they are mentioned or not, and occur naturally in the food flavorings we are trying to copy. Harmless, imho.

The only other choices are butyric acid, which is not exactly a note match, and it also has inhalation issues, like diacetyl.

 

[Heabob]

Depends, of course, on what type of juice you like, i.e., deserts, tobaccos, fruits, etc. I focus on desert type juices myself, and they are my favorite, so I can only speak to that POV. I would start with these (I have them in the "big" bottles):

1. Bavarian Cream and Sweet Cream
2. Vanilla Swirl - there are so many vanillas, and I have them all, and use them all, but you have to start somewhere, right?
3. Cotton Candy and Sweetener
4. Vanilla Custard
5. Graham Cracker (clear)
6. Strawberry

The rest I would purchase as I need them to make specific recipes. These, though, you'll use all the time, and they make great mixes. You can add Bavarian Cream, Vanilla Swirl, and Cotton Candy to almost anything and make it great. Delicious together. My .

Just adding to Bill's list...
Brown Sugar Extra
Cheesecake Graham Crust
Marshmallow
Blueberry Wild
Orange Cream
Cinnamon Danish

Just some of my favorites.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Does anyone like Menthol?

I don't care for it myself, but I do have family and friends who "must" have it. Here's my Cool Breeze recipe:

Watermelon - 9%
Blueberry - 7%
Raspberry - 4%
Lemon Lime - 2%
Koolada - 2%
Menthol - 4%
Cotton Candy - 2%

So, many "Cool" flavors in a wonderful 30% mix. This one is delicious, but if you don't like menthol, it's going to put a flavor in your gear that's going to be tough to get out. This is strong stuff, and perfect for my menthol loving friends. Like a breath of a cool breeze....Enjoy!

P.S. This one has no cream or vanilla, for those that don't think I can make a juice without them!

I have friends in Hawaii who can't live without it.