The Prodigy V2 ... Now Named With Some Info (and Poll)

[combovan]

I don't understand the logic above. I want to be able to order Protege immediately, so that I don't have to worry that I am going to miss the order window if I don't access ECF or PS every week. At the same time, if I am online, I would like to see the specs changes. There are people who don't like to see food when they are hungry, I and many others on the other hand love it. If you belong to the former group, stop watching food channel before dinner, don't ask them to cancel all shows between 4 and 6.

So, if Steve allows us, who are prepared to wait without deadline and not complain, order now and get a surprise gift sometime in the future, possibly this year but not guaranteed, how does that hurt the people who want to know that it will start shipping in 2 weeks before they order?

Steve, just open the pre-order with disclaimers and specific statement that ECF threads are just pure fiction, even if posted by you, and the only dates that should be taken into the account are the dates on the PS site. Whoever voted "long preorder" can order immediately. Once you're sure that you'll start shipping in 1-2 weeks, post the date on your site, and people who wanted 1-2 week preorder can post their order. Finally, when you have them in stock, post it at your site and people who voted for no preorder can start as well. No harm no foul.

Not that i have anything wrong with that logic at all but i personally think puting something up for public sale with lots of disclaimers looks kinda unprofessional and if there anything steve is NOT its unprofessional.
The point i was making is that things do sometimes have to change during development and sometimes people go out and buy batteries or whatever for there new device way too early in the game with a long preorder. Then something changes in the design and whatever it is they bought will no longer work with the forthcoming product.
Besides that 1-2 weeks is still a ton of time to get a preorder in its not like its gonna sell out the first day, Its still a line your number may just be a lil farther down same as with any preorder.
I personally just think having everything hammered out would save the folks at ps at lot of headaches from people complaining about changes that might need to be made and also there would be no need for some crazy disclaimers all over the place.
Think about it from a new customers pov, how comfortable would you be spending money on something that basicly says this is a concept and could change drasticly at any moment and has no shipping date...but it will be a great device and you will love it so order it.
Those of us that have ordered from ps know that steve will make a great product but if your a new customer that kind of disclaimer just looks shady
combovan

 

[grimmer255]

hey sar that would be a good idea with have an attachable unit to hold the atty. so when you are done you can simply unscrew the atty and place in in the unit. Also I would like to see an attachable manual dripper, kind of like the " the Fang". I hate have to pull off the mouth piece every 10 puffs just to refill, personally I think its becoming anoying. Oh well we'll see what puresmoker can do. So far i have been very pleased with there efforts.

 

[tvujec]

Not that i have anything wrong with that logic at all but i personally think puting something up for public sale with lots of disclaimers looks kinda unprofessional and if there anything steve is NOT its unprofessional.

I don't think there a lot of disclaimers, and they are definitely not unprofessional. Example:
Product: Protege
Price: $XX (available on preorder)
Availability: To be announced on this site on a later date.

Besides that 1-2 weeks is still a ton of time to get a preorder in its not like its gonna sell out the first day, Its still a line your number may just be a lil farther down same as with any preorder.

It is not a ton of time, and it is definitely HUGE difference. I have money now, and I want protege as soon as available. Not a week after I get from the business trip and I see that it was already available for a week, and I could have had it in my hands. Further more, I'll wait quietly.

Think about it from a new customers pov, how comfortable would you be spending money on something that basicly says this is a concept and could change drasticly at any moment and has no shipping date...but it will be a great device and you will love it so order it.

Why would anyone be forced to do so?!?!?!? Remember, anyone is free to wait with their preorder until Steve announces shipping date. How is my order going to affect them? It is only going to assure me that my order will be ready at the earliest time possible.

 

[gjrhine]

The point i was making is that things do sometimes have to change during development and sometimes people go out and buy batteries or whatever for there new device way too early in the game with a long preorder.

I already asked this question and Steve said the design is nailed down. Something as fundamental as the batteries is not going to change.

In fact here it is in post #23 -

"The Protégé should be nailed from the get go, considering the tool to press the adapters (which was the correction for the Prodigy) has already been made and things are being pressed correctly now"

 

[LuckySevens4U]

Personally, even if I think I want something, I want to wait to see reviews and reports before I buy it. I know that means waiting longer, but I did the same thing with the PT. As soon as I saw the reviews were what I thought they would be, mostly good, some comments of little things like the tough cable, etc., I still made my decision then based on reviews and ordered one. I want to test the 5 V experience and I want something that is more durable vs those China ones. So I would not pre-order this personally. I want to see reviews, glitches fixed, and in stock before I ordered.

 

[tvujec]

So I would not pre-order this personally. I want to see reviews, glitches fixed, and in stock before I ordered.

I understand this Lucky, and your comment is fully valid. That point aside, I don't think it should affect anyone (neither that you wish to do so) who doesn't share your opinion, and wishes to preorder.

What I don't understand is a number of people who voted to have the preorder, but only 1-2 weeks before, and only if nothing is going to change, and only if Steve will personally deliver it, and what not. It is called whining, and they don't really want to preorder, so they simply shouldn't. But they probably will, and they will find a reason to whine on the forum even if nothing changes and everything arrives on time... The only reason which would justify that vote IMNSHO, is if they wanted to have the protege as soon as available, but rather than paying for that privilege now, they want to have a clicking contest when Steve announces it to push their place in the line. I can't personally afford to track sources online 24 hours a day, to make sure that my order is early enough.

So Steve, I guess you should open preorders now, and then have a clicking contest 2 weeks before shipping for first 10 proteges to be shipped.

 

[Surf Monkey]

a number of people who voted to have the preorder, but only 1-2 weeks before, and only if nothing is going to change, and only if Steve will personally deliver it, and what not. It is called whining, and they don't really want to preorder, so they simply shouldn't.

Wow. Could you insert some more statements that no one actually made? Putting words in people's mouths isn't a great way to support your position IMO.

 

[Sar]

I have voted for "allow even if it takes 1-2 months" option. I used to pre-order CDs from a favorite artist, or games that were to come out. Sometimes it was a mistake to pre-order, sometimes not.

With Prodigy, I didn't pre-order when the pre-ordering was first opened up. I didn't have any experience with Puresmoker, didn't know if this will be some kind of fly-by-night operation that takes your money and folds, and didn't really know if they can make a good product. But I would certainly not want to prevent all those people that did pre-order from doing so. I mean, if I chose not to pre-order, why would I force my choice on everyone else?

And the nice thing about allowing 1-2 month pre-order is that at the same time it allows choice #2 ("only allow starting 1-2 weeks in advance" if you take out the word "only"). So, someone who wants to order a month ahead of time will be able to do so. If someone wants to order only 1 week in advance, well that person will be able to do so too. And if someone doesn't want to pre-order at all, that person can simply command his/her finger not to press the "Pre-order" button. This is simple.

But I think Steve needs to evaluate these options for his business. Pre-ordering will cause lots of extra work -- answering email status queries, dealing with combinations of in-stock out-of stock items on the order, etc.

I would recommend that pre-orders should be treated differently from the standard orders and be limited only to the Protégé device or kit and nothing else (no combining with liquid orders etc). All pre-orders should get free shipping regardless of how much will the device end up costing. That should allow for tracking numbers to be pre-order specific and would make the shipping logistics much simpler. It would also allow for more precise delivery estimates. If the pre-orders get their own order numbering scheme, it would be easy to distinguish between regular order (for example "order 174555") and pre-order (for example "order PRE1234").

 

[tvujec]

Wow. Could you insert some more statements that no one actually made? Putting words in people's mouths isn't a great way to support your position IMO.

Forgive me for using dramatic enhancements in my statement, and I don't believe that you honestly thought that I meant that anyone wanted Steve to personally deliver protege.

Multiple people indeed said (and voted) that they wouldn't want the preorder available before shipping date is set and more than two weeks out, and some added in their posts also before any changes where possible. I personally don't care about either, yet the result would be that I wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

Hopefully you can now understand why I might be irritated by the fact that some people want to prohibit me from preordering, just because they find it difficult to wait. How is that inserting some statements that no one made?

 

[Surf Monkey]

Who here has said that their reason for voting 1 - 2 weeks was "because they find it difficult waiting"?

 

[tvujec]

With Prodigy, I didn't pre-order when the pre-ordering was first opened up. I didn't have any experience with Puresmoker, didn't know if this will be some kind of fly-by-night operation that takes your money and folds, and didn't really know if they can make a good product. But I would certainly not want to prevent all those people that did pre-order from doing so. I mean, if I chose not to pre-order, why would I force my choice on everyone else?

Many thanks for the consideration, that's all what I am asking for.

And the nice thing about allowing 1-2 month pre-order is that at the same time it allows choice #2 ("only allow starting 1-2 weeks in advance" if you take out the word "only"). So, someone who wants to order a month ahead of time will be able to do so. If someone wants to order only 1 week in advance, well that person will be able to do so too. And if someone doesn't want to pre-order at all, that person can simply command his/her finger not to press the "Pre-order" button. This is simple.

I couldn't agree more. How come so many people are not getting it?

But I think Steven needs to evaluate these options for his business. Pre-ordering will cause lots of extra work -- answering email status queries, dealing with combinations of in-stock out-of stock items on the order, etc.
I would recommend that pre-orders should be treated differently from the standard orders and be limited only to the Protégé device or kit and nothing else (no combining with liquid orders etc). All pre-orders should get free shipping regardless of how much will the device end up costing. That should allow for tracking numbers to be pre-order specific and would make the shipping logistics much simpler. It would also allow for more precise delivery estimates.

That is understandable, however in my opinion it should be worth the money, especially if they follow your suggestion and keep preorders separate from the rest. If availability is explicit, and disclaimer is short, anyone asking for details can be responded to with a template response offering 2 choices, wait or take refund.

 

[gjrhine]

I could be way off base but I think the whole pre-order thing is really a smokescreen (pardon the pun). Since an pre-order can be cancelled for a refund it is really a moot point. What he is really trying to gauge is how people feel about having their money being tied up for a period of time. Is an indeterminate amount of time ok, two weeks or not at all? With no concerns being raised in this regard I think he has gotten his answer.

Also when the where's mine posts start he can say well you guys voted for pre-orders Since he now has a proven track record I say go ahead and open up pre-orders and maybe the funds will help spur R&D and production.

Anyways .... Should we open up Pre-Ordering again, or not? ... You guys be the judge ... Not entirely sure on Pricing But we are hoping to keep it under $100/for a full kit including atomizer/batteries/charger, etc...

 

[tvujec]

Who here has said that their reason for voting 1 - 2 weeks was "because they find it difficult waiting"?

Where is it that I claimed that this is what they said, rather than this is my opinion on what they wanted? I only claimed that this can be the likely reason why someone would want only 1-2 week preorder.
Read again:

What I don't understand is a number of people who voted to have the preorder, but only 1-2 weeks before, and only if nothing is going to change, and only if Steve will personally deliver it, and what not. It is called whining, and they don't really want to preorder, so they simply shouldn't.

While I never claimed that anyone stated that they "find it difficult to wait", I indeed inferred that if someone doesn't want to preorder now, in addition to not wanting anyone to preorder before they plan to (1-2 weeks before shipment), it is highly likely that they "find it difficult to wait". What would be another reason for having only 1-2 week preorder?

In conclusion, remove only from the poll, and I am all happy.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I think you're making a faulty assumption, especially given the fact that most people who voted 1-2 weeks gave their reasoning right in the thread.

 

[Flitzanu]

ok, Sar makes a great point, that if it is set to preorder 2 months out, it DOES still mean it helps option #2 for "1 to 2 weeks" out.

maybe i should edit my answer, that to me personally, it isn't so much the waiting, it isn't having the money tied up either.

my reasons really aren't even logical or realistic, but simply an expression of frustration and disappointment to watch other people get their items while i'm still waiting. selfish, right?

the reasons i would choose a shorter preorder time, one closer to finalizing the item, is simply because of the multitude of changes that could take place. well, multitude is a subjective word...the few changes that could take place.

i know people were ...... about the batteries for prodigy changing, and maybe a couple disappointed on the voltage change, but i don't believe that was the majority. i thought it was fun to check every day to see what the new progress was, to see how it was evolving, etc.

however, realistically, there are people that don't want to see that and don't want to keep up with it. they want a date, a price, and an order button.

my personal suggestion would be to skim back through the posts about prodigy from day one til now, and weigh out the negative opinions that related to the pre-order and wait time. then again, i think that's part of the point of this survey right?

one other thing, i do know that there were some that even backed out on their pre-orders, cancelling them because they didn't understand the changes or what was happening, and got scared.

again, that's not a majority, but a small demographic to consider...the ones that can get scared when changes are happening, thinking that they aren't getting what they originally ordered.

other point Sar made, i think the idea of ordering only the kit (base? or full) and shipping those entirely separate from other items is a good idea. i don't think there was any dishonesty about how ordering a PT and Prodigy would delay shipping if your PT wasn't done, but it might be a good idea to avoid a situation like that.

 

[Momof3]

I understand what you're saying and I also voted for the long pre-order. I would personally have it all paid for and my place established in line, it gets here when it gets here and not have to bother with keeping up with a release/order date, everybody F5ing and what not. I pre-ordered a book last fall with a projected release date sometime this fall. If I don't have it and haven't heard anything come Oct/Nov I'll look into it. Until then I've got a million other things going on.

As to the design changes, I personally had ordered 18650s specifically for the Prodigy. I chose to order them from China rather than PS. When the change came about, Steve offered to anyone who wished it the original specs and gave up until order shipment to make the decision or you could cancel and get a refund. IMO that's as it should be and was handled better than many others would. You really can't ask for more. People were free to pre-order or not, no one was forced and cancellation/refunds to the best of my knowledge have always been available.

If someone didn't like how the PDV1 pre-order went, then they would be free to not participate in a pre-order for the Protege. I don't see why that should affect whether or not I get to pre-order.

 

[tvujec]

I think you're making a faulty assumption, especially given the fact that most people who voted 1-2 weeks gave their reasoning right in the thread.

Then help me. You keep saying that most people gave their reasoning right in the thread, but outside of "it would be easier on Steve", I haven't seen one reason why it would really be better for them, as in the person making the order if I would be able to order now? And as for the "easier on Steve", I said it immediately, no promises and there will be no problems.

 

[Surf Monkey]

So, "I think it would be easier on Steve" isn't a valid reason? Huh.

 

[tvujec]

So, "I think it would be easier on Steve" isn't a valid reason? Huh.

Nope, not in the poll where Steve asks people what they would want, rather than "What do you think it would be best for me?"

 

[Surf Monkey]

It doesn't cross your mind that what some people want might be what's best for Steve?