Titanium wire, vaping and safety

[tchavei]

10 day old build, using it daily:

This was built on May, 8th.

Sorry for the crappy pic but I don't have sufficient lighting here. I'll take a better one tomorrow.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[druckle]

EDIT: the dual coil build is holding over a week at 0.28 Ohms and the erlprinz is holding at 0.41/0.42 since I built it a few days ago (constant use since then). Both are compressed coils and no hot legs, wonky resistances or alike. I'll take a pic of the Mutation build in a few moments.

Tony
Have you compared spaced and compressed Ti coils? Some folks claim there is more "gunk" buildup on compressed coils and more uneven heating over the length of the coil which may or may not effect flavor/vapor production with temperature control. I've been using spaced coils with Ti but it would be easier to use compressed coils. I could, and probably should, do that comparison myself but it occurred to me you might have already done the comparison....and yeah, I'm lazy.

Duane

 

[soulseek]

Anyone happen to have a link to the the thermal coefficient of resitance for Titanium?

 

[Phone Guy]

I dry burned titanium wire at 5w with temp control off...and it glowed red then had a white powder like coating which i guess was the tidioxide or whatever. That was just dry burn in the atty on the mod. Fyi.

 

[TheBloke]

Anyone happen to have a link to the the thermal coefficient of resitance for Titanium?

Titanium definition of Titanium in the Free Online Encyclopedia :

"The element has a specific heat of 0.523 kilojoule/(kg·°K), or 0.1248 calorie/(g·°C), an electrical resistivity of 42.1 × 10–6 ohm-cm at 20°C, and a temperature coefficient of resistivity of 0.0035 at 20°C. "​

Also, here's a big table of elements inc Titanium and Nickel (0.006):

Ness Engineering Technical Data Metal/Alloy Resistivity.​

 

[tchavei]

Tony
Have you compared spaced and compressed Ti coils? Some folks claim there is more "gunk" buildup on compressed coils and more uneven heating over the length of the coil which may or may not effect flavor/vapor production with temperature control. I've been using spaced coils with Ti but it would be easier to use compressed coils. I could, and probably should, do that comparison myself but it occurred to me you might have already done the comparison....and yeah, I'm lazy. [emoji38]

Duane

Well, spaced coils are definitely better to avoid gunking. I did this mostly in name of science to see if it would be as difficult as with nickel.

However, I do recognize one advantage of compressed coils: size

A 8 wrap spaced coil on a erlp will fill the whole deck but only the center 4 wraps will be directly cooled by the air flow hole so most energy goes towards the center. After a few days of use, you will notice that outside the center, the wraps are shiny and look almost unused while the center is darker and duller like only 3 or 4 wraps are actually vaporizing the juice.

A compressed coil is shorter so the whole body is more uniform in heating and cooling.

In the Mutation X, it's easier to install smaller sized coils and still have room for the wick so compressed coils are, once again, easier to install.

I have no problem using either and both have their advantages.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[TheBloke]

Yeah I think size is the enormous advantage of compressed. I find myself quite limited - or at least, needing to take a lot of trouble - in using spaced coils. Some decks are fine, like the Lemo 1/2. But in most others it is definitely a factor that has to be weighed carefully - how many wraps can I get in, how big can they be (ID), can I get enough spaced wraps to enable dual coil (shouldn't apply to Ti I guess), etc. I'm needing to take much more care than I did with compressed Kanthal coils.

Being able to remove that requirement and have the option of either will, I am expecting, be an enormous benefit in coil building. And doubly so that Ti has higher resistance so I'm not butting up against 0.05 / 0.10 limits (IPV4, DNA 40 respectively) when going dual.

And that's just the obvious, space/fitting benefits. I hadn't even thought of the fact that larger coils might not be evenly cooled/aired etc.

I really can't wait for mine to arrive!

 

[druckle]

Anyone happen to have a link to the the thermal coefficient of resitance for Titanium?[/QUOTE

I just went through some my old files looking for decent data and came across this.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/750579.pdf

I'd like to find something in better tabular form but at least this is a start.

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

@druckle , I just came across that .mil doc when I was searching a moment ago - some good info there! Pity it's all in °F where everyone else now uses °C.

If you just want to see the basic resistivity/coefficient values, the Ness data I posted for soulseek has a huge table of metals/alloys with their values - Resistivity, and Temperature Coefficient of Resistivity.

Not all that detail that the .mil site has though on Titanium alone.

 

[druckle]

Well, spaced coils are definitely better to avoid gunking. I did this mostly in name of science to see if it would be as difficult as with nickel.

However, I do recognize one advantage of compressed coils: size

A 8 wrap spaced coil on a erlp will fill the whole deck but only the center 4 wraps will be directly cooled by the air flow hole so most energy goes towards the center. After a few days of use, you will notice that outside the center, the wraps are shiny and look almost unused while the center is darker and duller like only 3 or 4 wraps are actually vaporizing the juice.

A compressed coil is shorter so the whole body is more uniform in heating and cooling.

In the Mutation X, it's easier to install smaller sized coils and still have room for the wick so compressed coils are, once again, easier to install.

I have no problem using either and both have their advantages.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Tony
I've noticed the problem with concentrated airflow too with longer spaced coils and that's part of the reason I'm curious about compressed coils. I have explored larger Ti wire gauge a little (24 gauge) and that shortens up the spaced coils a bit but the jury is still out on whether that's a real advantage. I've also thought about variable spacing along the length of the coil but relegated that thought to the day when I have absolutely nothing else to do.

If I got totally .... about vaping I'd design my own dripping/squonking atomizer which would definitely have air coming from underneath the coils through a slot rather than a round hole and would have the air come from the top down through channels to supply the slot. However after checking on the cost of a one off design of my liking and considering how well the current designs do I've decided to let well enough alone, save my money and ..... about how it could be done better.

Duane

 

[druckle]

@druckle , I just came across that .mil doc when I was searching a moment ago - some good info there! Pity it's all in °F where everyone else now uses °C.

Hey...NOT EVERYONE.....there are still a whole bunch of us backward folks in The U.S. who haven't caught up with Celcius yet (or liters or meters).

 

[TheBloke]

Hey...NOT EVERYONE.....there are still a whole bunch of us backward folks in The U.S. who haven't caught up with Celcius yet (or liters or meters).

Haha sorry! I didn't mean all people, I just meant every other link discussing this stuff So when I google for properties, all sites list it in C usually, and the calculators are in C, so figures in F require converting back and forth

Actually I am doing all my TC in °F, even though my IPV4 supports C Reason being that my first TC mod was only F, and 99% of the discussion I see on TC is in °F. And so I already know what 390, 400, 420, whatever feels like on a given atty, and don't want to learn over again. And more to the point, I don't want to be constantly converting back and forth when I discuss it on forums

 

[druckle]

Yep, familiarity has a LOT to do with why certain units are comfortable and others are not. For example I live in Arizona where 37 degrees is jacket time. I expect you would hear 37 degrees and find a pool to jump in.

 

[AdamAnd]

I was only thinking of the TI Grade 1 for Vaping I have not heard of any problems with the Grade 1, it is always save to do some research and it looks like a lot have which is good for everyone that's the trouble getting Ti Grade 1 somewhere close to home my search will continue thanks Adam

 

[Quantum Mech]

that's me sorted, I'm in

thanks everyone for all the good info

 

[druckle]

Here's a link to some additonal data for coefficient of resistivity for titanium. This data is for "iodide titanium" which is likely the most pure form of titanium that we'll find data for (99.99% pure). The data is easier to digest and likely more precise than other data I've found but again it's not specifically for Grade 1 Commercially Pure Titanium. A cursory review of the paper (so far) suggests that much of the data are pretty applicable to those of us interested in the technical aspects of creating our own curves for an open source board/mod such as that which will be available pretty soon via Cloudmaker Tech.

The paper is primarily for titanium and thorium. The latter is decidedly NOT recommended for much of anything related to vaping since it's radioactive.

The applicable data for Ti are in the general range of page 26 +. There is also some good information on line fit/equations early in the paper.

http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1049&context=ameslab_iscreports

I hope this helps.

Duane

 

[soulseek]

Thank you guys for the links to the temperature coefficients. Much appreciated.

 

[TheBloke]

Oh my god, that Cloud Maker Tech thing looks interesting! Customisable/reprogrammable modding.

Is that why you were asking about coefficients, @soulseek ?

Thanks so much for that info, @druckle !

I'm definitely going to have to have one of those!

 

[druckle]

Oh my god, that Cloud Maker Tech thing looks interesting! Customisable/reprogrammable modding.

Is that why you were asking about coefficients, @soulseek ?

Thanks so much for that info, @druckle !

I'm definitely going to have to have one of those!

Here's a link to a video giving some info on Cloudmaker Tech. The video is quite long so skip forward to about 1:17 if you want to avoid over an hour of other stuff.

 

[tchavei]

Cool but too big for my taste. I like petite