I thought no compressed touching coils for temp control?
Titanium wire, vaping and safety
- Thread starter TheotherSteveS
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Let me correct your statement
I thought no compressed touching NICKEL Coils for temp control?
Yes, you're right but this is titanium which forms a insulating layer that doesn't allow shorting across wraps.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Last edited:
Let me correct your statement
I thought no compressed touching NICKEL Coils for temp control?
Yes, you're right but this is titanium which forms a insulating layer that doesn't allow shorting across wraps.
So wait, the reason why no-touching on Nickel coils is because of the properties of nickel specifically? The way Busardo explained it - and therefore, the way Evolv explained it - was that it messed up the temp sensing. I always thought that meant that it created hot spots, or it affected the even spread of resistance, or something..
So is all that wrong? There's no reason, specific to TC, that coils can't touch? It's only because in Nickel, coils should never touch - even if TC wasn't used?
If I'm understanding that all correctly, that's fantastic! Non-spaced TC coils?! I'm in! (Well I was already in, but now I'm MORE in!
)Yes. Nickel doesn't easily form an oxide layer like kanthal or titanium so if you compress a nickel coil it will randomly short across some wraps causing instability in the resistance and possibly hot legs and hot spots. Nothing to do with TC except that you normally use nickel only for TCSo wait, the reason why no-touching on Nickel coils is because of the properties of nickel specifically? The way Busardo explained it - and therefore, the way Evolv explained it - was that it messed up the temp sensing. I always thought that meant that it created hot spots, or it affected the even spread of resistance, or something..
So is all that wrong? There's no reason, specific to TC, that coils can't touch? It's only because in Nickel, coils should never touch - even if TC wasn't used?
If I'm understanding that all correctly, that's fantastic! Non-spaced TC coils?! I'm in! (Well I was already in, but now I'm MORE in!
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Did you guys see the rumored Joyetech Temp control device? Looks like it's calibrated for Nickel AND Titanium!
Joyetech Evic VT 60 Watt | E-Cigarette Forum
Joyetech Evic VT 60 Watt | E-Cigarette Forum
Yes. Nickel doesn't easily form an oxide layer like kanthal or titanium so if you compress a nickel coil it will randomly short across some wraps causing instability in the resistance and possibly hot legs and hot spots. Nothing to do with TC except that you normally use nickel only for TC
Awesomeness
Curious if anyone has tried nickel titanium twisted? Or if there would be any benefit to doing that?
I'm pretty sure that if you were going to do that, you may as well not use Ti at all. Basically it would become like Nickel/Kanthal - the Nickel would carry the electricity as it's the lower resistance, and the Titanium would just be a juice-carrier/flavour wire. It certainly wouldn't participate in the TC at all.
My understanding was that the primary benefit of Ti was versus Nickel, not versus Kanthal. The reason to use Ti is to get rid of Nickel - eg so we can use touching coils, and have higher resistances, and stronger coils. So I'd not really be sure of any point in putting NIckel in there as well as Ti.
Don't forget that some have serious nickel allergies too so Ti can be used as an alternative.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
I have allergies as well, that is what forced me to look for other alternatives, TI.
I found that the flavor and the ability to have builds allowing for more surface area both provide a great option for those with allergies and those who want a better overall experience.
I cannot figure out why some TI wires behave differently and taste different, keeping everything else constant.
I have used
ESG TI wire, which I understand is an alloy--this is a great wire but I prefer the idea of more purity
Sweet Spot's TI, which didnt seem to work as described
RG TI, but the gauge was too difficult to work with at 30g
Spider Silk, surgical/grade 1, which I feel has great flavor but only comes in 26g and I think I would prefer 28g, not a big deal though.
Anyone have any thoughts on why they have different flavor and actions?
I found that the flavor and the ability to have builds allowing for more surface area both provide a great option for those with allergies and those who want a better overall experience.
I cannot figure out why some TI wires behave differently and taste different, keeping everything else constant.
I have used
ESG TI wire, which I understand is an alloy--this is a great wire but I prefer the idea of more purity
Sweet Spot's TI, which didnt seem to work as described
RG TI, but the gauge was too difficult to work with at 30g
Spider Silk, surgical/grade 1, which I feel has great flavor but only comes in 26g and I think I would prefer 28g, not a big deal though.
Anyone have any thoughts on why they have different flavor and actions?
I'm pretty sure there are 500 shades of Titanium
Even when talking about grade 1 titantium, there a certain tolerances and different extrusion processes that can influence the final product. I only tried the ESG (non temp mode) and Zivipf.de Titanium Grade 1 and I'm very happy with the latter. No off taste, doesn't easily form TiO2 after several experiments I did with it. Only gripe is that it's really hard and springy (28g) but the trick is to wind the coil, hold it with ceramic tweezers, LIGHTLY torch it for a few seconds (so that it barely glows... you can make it gold up to purple... more heat than that and it becomes grey and dull = TiO2) to hold the compressed coil shape and then you can a) pull it apart and squeeze it to get a perfectly spaced coil or b) leave it in the compressed state and mount it like that.
It will work both ways.
great info,^^^^^^^^^^ thanks!......guess i'm gonna try some of the German wire.
I'm pretty sure there are 500 shades of Titanium
Even when talking about grade 1 titantium, there a certain tolerances and different extrusion processes that can influence the final product. I only tried the ESG (non temp mode) and Zivipf.de Titanium Grade 1 and I'm very happy with the latter. No off taste, doesn't easily form TiO2 after several experiments I did with it. Only gripe is that it's really hard and springy (28g) but the trick is to wind the coil, hold it with ceramic tweezers, LIGHTLY torch it for a few seconds (so that it barely glows... you can make it gold up to purple... more heat than that and it becomes grey and dull = TiO2) to hold the compressed coil shape and then you can a) pull it apart and squeeze it to get a perfectly spaced coil or b) leave it in the compressed state and mount it like that.
It will work both ways.
Thanks for the great info, Tony.
A blow torch is one tool I have resisted buying, given that a) they all seem to cost at least £20 / $30 b) I figured I'd only need it very rarely.
But I hate the sound of wire which is springy and hard to deal with.
Can you think of any alternatives to the "light torching" you describe? For example, what if I ran some power through it from a mod - perhaps under TC such as to limit the amount of that power. I don't know, set it to 420F perhaps (ie just over 500F in reality, assuming the 80-90 offset.) Or do it outside of power mode, set to a low watts - 10 or 15 - and pulse it just enough to get it to glow?
I'll probably just end up splashing out cash again on a proper torch, but if there's alternatives - at least ones that can get me going quickly when my Zipvipf spools come hopefully in the next couple of days, that'd be great to hear.
Another thought I had was holding it over an open flame from my stove - but maybe that's not concentrated enough, and/or not controlled enough in the case of Ti - too much risk of over-heating it?
PS. What are your shipping experiences from Zip? I chose the €4.95 "Expedited, tracked" shipping and it dispatched on Friday morning. I have no idea as to its progress, because the 'tracking' seems, so far, less than useful - I've checked it several times since it shipped and it always just shows a single entry:
I'm hoping that means that the tracking is crap, rather than it meaning that it hasn't actually moved very far yet!
I have tried the shipping number on the UK postal site, Royal Mail, and it recognises it but has no info yet meaning it's not in their hands yet.
You can use any flame although you might have to wash the coil to clean up "smut" if carbon is deposited on the coil (as from a candle flame). Obviously you'll have to experiment a little to get the time/temperature right.
You can also use the atomizer/mod to do the annealing of the titanium wire. Just be sure to pulse the power to avoid the temperature going so high that you get significant oxidation. I do that pulsing in the dark and stop each pulse when I see even the slightest glow. A few pulses like that and you should solve the annealing problem.
So how many other people are running compressed Ti coils besides Tony? I thought for sure it was covered earlier in this thread, but I couldn't find anything. I have a couple of attys with very small chambers that don't really work well with spaced coils, so this subject has really piqued my curiosity.
From germany to portugal it took 6 working days if I remember correctly. Royalmail is known for really crappy info (and shipping). I sent a board RMA to the UK. Took 24h from my house in Portugal to Heathrow Airport and then sat there 5 days before it was delivered to the destination [emoji14]
Did you try ALL-IN-ONE PACKAGE TRACKING It has more info than royalmail
What duckle said. I would set it at 600F and pulse in the dark a few times. It's too easy to overheat the wire by dry burning. An overburned Ti coil will look like this:
It still vapes great though lol. Even if some TiO2 forms, It's appears to be really stuck to the wire and isn't going anywhere. In my opinion, it's more of a psychological thing
Just try it. If the resistance starts jumping up and down and/or you can notice hotspots, it didn't work. One give away would be the legs instantly getting orange if the coil was completely shorted.
Ah I keep forgetting that 17Track can just be used for any shipping - I so much associate it with Chinese shipping (FT, 3FVape) that I keep thinking of it as being Chinese
RM isn't the best for tracking, no, but I can always tell once it's in their hands - they put up a single tracking item as soon as customs pass it to them. At least that's what happens when it comes from outside the EU. I'm not sure what happens for EU packages - whether they still go through customs in some way, or not.
In this case it seems that Deutsche Post are the problem. 17Track shows even less info than Deutsche's site, it just says "Unable to track". So perhaps it really is still sitting where it started, with no tracking because it hasn't moved
Either that or DE just aren't tracking it at all. But I'm certain it's not in the UK yet, which is a bit crap. I suppose it's possible that Zip marked it shipped as soon as they printed the address label, but then it wasn't actually collected by/delivered to the post office, and perhaps still hasn't been.
What duckle said. I would set it at 600F and pulse in the dark a few times. It's too easy to overheat the wire by dry burning. An overburned Ti coil will look like this:
It still vapes great though lol. Even if some TiO2 forms, It's appears to be really stuck to the wire and isn't going anywhere. In my opinion, it's more of a psychological thing
OK awesome, thanks! Can't be worse than smoking, right?
Just try it. If the resistance starts jumping up and down and/or you can notice hotspots, it didn't work. One give away would be the legs instantly getting orange if the coil was completely shorted.
So touching coils with Ti is a bit more hit-and-miss than with Kanthal? With Kanthal I'd never expect a coil to not work - with enough tweezering and poking, it will glow consistently eventually.
Is Ti different? Or I suppose perhaps it's because of the undesirability of over-priming it that means it's harder to get working? ie it would definitely eventually work if you don't mind dry firing it a lot, but that risks turning it grey which most people want to avoid?
No, no. Titanium does work instantly but don't take my word for it. Try it yourself. I was just giving you the normal symptoms of a shorting coil.Ah I keep forgetting that 17Track can just be used for any shipping - I so much associate it with Chinese shipping (FT, 3FVape) that I keep thinking of it as being Chinese
RM isn't the best for tracking, no, but I can always tell once it's in their hands - they put up a single tracking item as soon as customs pass it to them. At least that's what happens when it comes from outside the EU. I'm not sure what happens for EU packages - whether they still go through customs in some way, or not.
In this case it seems that Deutsche Post are the problem. 17Track shows even less info than Deutsche's site, it just says "Unable to track". So perhaps it really is still sitting where it started, with no tracking because it hasn't moved
But I'm certain it's not in the UK yet, which is a bit crap. I suppose it's possible that Zip marked it shipped as soon as they printed the address label, but then it wasn't actually collected by/delivered to the post office, and perhaps still hasn't been.
OK awesome, thanks! Can't be worse than smoking, right?
So touching coils with Ti is a bit more hit-and-miss than with Kanthal? With Kanthal I'd never expect a coil to not work - with enough tweezering and poking, it will glow consistently eventually.
Is Ti different? Or I suppose perhaps it's because of the undesirability of over-priming it that means it's harder to get working? ie it would definitely eventually work if you don't mind dry firing it a lot, but that risks turning it grey which most people want to avoid?
The pic of the dual coil was a test to see how many pulses it would take to make the coil glow evenly inside out. Took only two pulses but one of the coils was starting to glow a little off center so I kept pulsing and pulsing and suddently it went from Blue / purple to grey and I knew it was too much.
That build gave me some work (notice the crimps under the screws to protect the wire) so I didn't want rip it out and start over.
Regarding kanthal... Well that depends. Try washing a kanthal coil under water then squeeze it together with some ceramic tweezers while you fire the mod... The best visual comparison I can give you is orange chessboard lol. It happens because parts of the coil are still wet and as you are pressing the wraps together, parts that aren't shorting get orange while the shorting ones remain black. First time I did that experience it was like F... What just happen?
Regards
Tony
EDIT: the dual coil build is holding over a week at 0.28 Ohms and the erlprinz is holding at 0.41/0.42 since I built it a few days ago (constant use since then). Both are compressed coils and no hot legs, wonky resistances or alike. I'll take a pic of the Mutation build in a few moments.
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
