Titanium wire, vaping and safety

[Mactavish]

Nice reporting on the SweetSpot G2 or mystery wire. Granted I'm already aware of it thanks to ECF members, but as I read the threads I follow, it seems many are not. Granted, it would be nice if all wire sold had the TCR printed on the package, and supplied a CSV file online, we are not there yet. Bottom line for me, if one is going to vape TITANIUM, why choose anything other then GRADE ONE?

For U.S. sources, I use Unkaman for 26, and 28 gauge, needs some annealing before coiling, and 24 gauge from Rio Grande, it's perfect for coiling out of the package, easier then Kanthal. I pulse the 24g, after mounting using a custom TC preset on the Vaporshark DNA200, to glow it, and check it before wicking. They last a long time. For lazy times, or trying a new juice I sometimes use a pre-built coil, but for my Subtanks, there is NO Titanium coils! So I'm stuck using Nickle for TC. In my "Morph" tank I still have a Delta II titanium coil in there for a month, not used constantly, but I can recommend those highly. I still find it odd that Kanger has stayed out of the titanium coil market!

Too bad there is so much misinformation about Ti, scaring many away from trying it.

 

[latexyankee]

Just download the Ti Gr1 csv file and load it into escribe. The TCR curve doesnt depend on build/guage/day of the week/cosmic ray background, so dont worry!!

Ok, easy enough. But what is all the fuss with messing around in the TCR curve? You're telling me to just download the wire type csv and ignore TCR?

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

 

[awsum140]

The TCR curve, csv file, depends solely on the type of wire. Pure titanium has the same TCR no matter who made it is all he's trying to get across. The csv is simply a set of reference points, temperature versus ohms, that describe the curve. Titanium is basically a linear "curve", at least at the temperatures we're interested in.

 

[latexyankee]

So I downloaded the csv and wrapped a dual coil 26g at .24 ohms

Atty hits temp limit before I can really take a pull off it...put temp limit to 500 and it reaches and fires back down to 10 watts within one second.

Thoughts?

 

[soulseek]

Im glad you did that. Hopefully he will do something about it. In priciple, there is nothing wrong with using Gr2...its just that they market it as some kind of mystical, magical wire specifically engineered for vaping in some mystical and magical way, when it is actually some bod standard Gr2 wire that hey have cleaned and maybe vacuum-annealed a bit...ridiculous...

ps. the tcr for Gr2 is slightly different I think...he never takes that into account either!

This was the gist of my email to him as well. It's not that Gr2 is suddenly unsafe and horrible. It's just that they take a cheaper wire and try and spin in their favour by claiming that they make it purer than Gr1 through annealing, which is just plain false.

As for the differences between Gr1 and Gr2 I'll leave it to our expert druckle to chime in on this. I think e's talked about it in the past but I couldn't find it after a quick search.

 

[latexyankee]

Alright, I've worked out some issues but the temp does cutoff much sooner than my nickel builds.

Another thing I've noticed is that the temp is not the same. 500 degrees with Ti is not as warm as 450 with ni200. I'm missing some settings here...using the csv for grade 1 from wire wizard.

It cuts off way too quick, it will lower my watts to single digits when the wick is still somewhat wet. On my ni200 builds I could literally vape the cotton dry. Just took afew hits and got a lung full of titantium, super harsh.

so far Ti has been much harder thani200, I get hotspots on every coil even wrapping with a coil master/jig, always the positive legs on the velocity.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[latexyankee]

Contact coils lighting up like a Christmas tree!!! Not sure why since I assumed contact would be less problematic....has anyone used this spider wire? I cannot see myself screwing up a contact coil after wrapping kanthal for 4 years, I can do nickel claptons all day long but the Ti has been the hardest wire I've ever used.

8 wrap contact coil 26g and always hot spots on the end and sometimes all throughout the coil. This is with pulsing at 5 watts until a very dull glow in a dark room and using tweezers to tighten the wraps but I'm using a coil jig so they are already tight. Not sure what is going on, I'm clueless.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Just remembered but happy turkey day to you Ti freaks and yours across the pond. I really miss thanksgiving!

 

[Mactavish]

Contact coils lighting up like a Christmas tree!!! Not sure why since I assumed contact would be less problematic....has anyone used this spider wire? I cannot see myself screwing up a contact coil after wrapping kanthal for 4 years, I can do nickel claptons all day long but the Ti has been the hardest wire I've ever used.

8 wrap contact coil 26g and always hot spots on the end and sometimes all throughout the coil. This is with pulsing at 5 watts until a very dull glow in a dark room and using tweezers to tighten the wraps but I'm using a coil jig so they are already tight. Not sure what is going on, I'm clueless.

My first try with Ti, I tried a CC Coil. I did not like the little sparks and hot legs, so I gave up and have been doing spaced ever since. Many claim good luck with CC, so I may one day try again, but as many will debate, it seems like it's 50/50 on the subject of CC versus spaced. Since I can't claim one is better or less crude then another I stick with what's working well now, and since most pre-made TC coils are spaced for TC, it's working fine for me.

If and when I try another CC Ti coil, I'll make sure to anneal it first, as I may have skipped that step the first try. Good luck!

 

[latexyankee]

My first try with Ti, I tried a CC Coil. I did not like the little sparks and hot legs, so I gave up and have been doing spaced ever since. Many claim good luck with CC, so I may one day try again, but as many will debate, it seems like it's 50/50 on the subject of CC versus spaced. Since I can't claim one is better or less crude then another I stick with what's working well now, and since most pre-made TC coils are spaced for TC, it's working fine for me.

If and when I try another CC Ti coil, I'll make sure to anneal it first, as I may have skipped that step the first try. Good luck!

Phew..

Today was the worst day I've had vaping in probably 4 years. Went through 20 ft on Ti 26g wrapped about 35 coils. About 6 hours...

Not one build worked, I inhaled the deadly oxide, hot spots were white after I inhaled and got the painful hit. Tried all contact coils, not a single build would remain stable. Occasionally i got a few to start up but the positive leg would constantly go hot. Other times it was everywhere like red led's. I pulsed in a dark room at 7 watts until very faintly red and attempted to tighten the build..still nothing.

I also noticed the temp was way off. At 500 degrees it felt like 350 on nickel. Pretty sure this was my build, I used the settings from wire wizard. The one build that did work for about 10 hits was really good, tasted clean but then I got a mouth full of poison on a random puff..hot leg. Does the Ti run cooler or do you run it at a lower wattage than ni200?

Only reason I wanted to try Ti was for the simplicity of contact coils. I guess I can try some spaced when my 24g arrives, but I'm happy with my ni200 28/30 claptons, they just cost a bit more and resistance is always dead on at .05...I want to built right in the .1 range and Ti would allow me to do this.

After all the great reports about the ease of use I am astonished I could not get it working. I've been wrapping since the early genesis days and THAT was a pain in .... let me tell you. Needless to say I'm extremely frustrated and had to walk away as I tend to get real angry regarding stuff that really "doesn't matter" in the scheme of things like Ti coils.

guess I'll try a spaced with 24 tomorrow when it arrives, but after making a nice clapton, I hate to waste it as it's useless when removed, I cut the leads as close as possible.

Anyone else have a .... time at first with Ti? everyone states it's the savior compared to ni200 but damn man, thought contact was the way to go. It probably doesnt help on the velocity as you have one awkward leg seeing how you need to insert the + and - in the top on one side and bottom on the other. It should also be noted that I run my nickel builds all with claptons to reduce the springyness of the wire and it is sooo much easier to work with.

I don't have any family around so that was my thanksgiving, I hope yours was better, drive safe people.

 

[pbanj]

Phew..

Today was the worst day I've had vaping in probably 4 years. Went through 20 ft on Ti 26g wrapped about 35 coils. About 6 hours...

Not one build worked, I inhaled the deadly oxide, hot spots were white after I inhaled and got the painful hit. Tried all contact coils, not a single build would remain stable. Occasionally i got a few to start up but the positive leg would constantly go hot. Other times it was everywhere like red led's. I pulsed in a dark room at 7 watts until very faintly red and attempted to tighten the build..still nothing.

I also noticed the temp was way off. At 500 degrees it felt like 350 on nickel. Pretty sure this was my build, I used the settings from wire wizard. The one build that did work for about 10 hits was really good, tasted clean but then I got a mouth full of poison on a random puff..hot leg. Does the Ti run cooler or do you run it at a lower wattage than ni200?

Only reason I wanted to try Ti was for the simplicity of contact coils. I guess I can try some spaced when my 24g arrives, but I'm happy with my ni200 28/30 claptons, they just cost a bit more and resistance is always dead on at .05...I want to built right in the .1 range and Ti would allow me to do this.

After all the great reports about the ease of use I am astonished I could not get it working. I've been wrapping since the early genesis days and THAT was a pain in .... let me tell you. Needless to say I'm extremely frustrated and had to walk away as I tend to get real angry regarding stuff that really "doesn't matter" in the scheme of things like Ti coils.

guess I'll try a spaced with 24 tomorrow when it arrives, but after making a nice clapton, I hate to waste it as it's useless when removed, I cut the leads as close as possible.

Anyone else have a .... time at first with Ti? everyone states it's the savior compared to ni200 but damn man, thought contact was the way to go. It probably doesnt help on the velocity as you have one awkward leg seeing how you need to insert the + and - in the top on one side and bottom on the other. It should also be noted that I run my nickel builds all with claptons to reduce the springyness of the wire and it is sooo much easier to work with.

I don't have any family around so that was my thanksgiving, I hope yours was better, drive safe people.

I have tried contact coils with every tc wire I've had and have found spaced works the best.

 

[Rockwell222]

Phew..

Today was the worst day I've had vaping in probably 4 years. Went through 20 ft on Ti 26g wrapped about 35 coils. About 6 hours...

Not one build worked, I inhaled the deadly oxide, hot spots were white after I inhaled and got the painful hit. Tried all contact coils, not a single build would remain stable. Occasionally i got a few to start up but the positive leg would constantly go hot. Other times it was everywhere like red led's. I pulsed in a dark room at 7 watts until very faintly red and attempted to tighten the build..still nothing.

I also noticed the temp was way off. At 500 degrees it felt like 350 on nickel. Pretty sure this was my build, I used the settings from wire wizard. The one build that did work for about 10 hits was really good, tasted clean but then I got a mouth full of poison on a random puff..hot leg. Does the Ti run cooler or do you run it at a lower wattage than ni200?

Only reason I wanted to try Ti was for the simplicity of contact coils. I guess I can try some spaced when my 24g arrives, but I'm happy with my ni200 28/30 claptons, they just cost a bit more and resistance is always dead on at .05...I want to built right in the .1 range and Ti would allow me to do this.

After all the great reports about the ease of use I am astonished I could not get it working. I've been wrapping since the early genesis days and THAT was a pain in .... let me tell you. Needless to say I'm extremely frustrated and had to walk away as I tend to get real angry regarding stuff that really "doesn't matter" in the scheme of things like Ti coils.

guess I'll try a spaced with 24 tomorrow when it arrives, but after making a nice clapton, I hate to waste it as it's useless when removed, I cut the leads as close as possible.

Anyone else have a .... time at first with Ti? everyone states it's the savior compared to ni200 but damn man, thought contact was the way to go. It probably doesnt help on the velocity as you have one awkward leg seeing how you need to insert the + and - in the top on one side and bottom on the other. It should also be noted that I run my nickel builds all with claptons to reduce the springyness of the wire and it is sooo much easier to work with.

I don't have any family around so that was my thanksgiving, I hope yours was better, drive safe people.

I've been using titanium since it was first coming out and I tried some contact coils and didn't have such good luck, after that I've always used spaced coils. Now I'm doing titanium claptons and fused claptons and they work great just spaced a little. I don't even have to glow them at low watts to make sure they're glowing evenly, 100% of the time they work great. With these new Clapton builds it really makes the flavor much crisper. Hope your 24g ti spaced coils work well for you.

 

[Mactavish]

Well I just spent an hour building a dual coil for the Skyfall, which is a pump tank below, that feeds the RDA, that sits above it, basically a tank squonker. Annealed the 28 gauge titanium, then made the two coils, slow pulsed them on the mod. Wicked with KGD. Test firing at my normal STM setting of 470f, at 25 watts, with the top cap off I could see red hot legs that are long going into the posts. Just on two, not all four. This is the same issue I had with similar build on the Fountain, which is a similar tank squonker, it uses a squeeze bottle, like a Reo. These red hot legs can and will catch the cotton on fire, as I've seen it, and of course makes for a nasty vape. I spent so much time making this build, I did not want to give up. I had a feeling the normal preheat of 100 watts on my Vaporshark DNA200, may be the cause, as that's when the leads go hot, on first button fire. Went into Escribe, and turned OFF all preheat settings. No more red hot legs! Seems to be working.

BUILD:
Dual coils, Titanium 28 gauge, 5.5 wraps, 2.5mm ID. Fairly wide coil spread.
According to steam engine total resistance should be .20 ohms. The mod shows .27 ohms. I assume it's the long leads needed to get to the posts.

I'm a pretty novice builder, most of them on simple Subtank Minis, the coils use very short leads, and it's an easy build using mostly 24 gauge Ti, 5-6 wraps. So I have NO idea how folks deal with really long leads that don't sit in the cotton, are mostly out in the open and can get HOT? I've seen photos of builds like mine, so I'm not sure what the difference may be. But certainly turning OFF the preheat settings, has helped. Ideas welcome!

 

[2legsshrt]

Well I just tried dry burning Ti sort of at 9w pulsing it. At one point the center of the coil glowed bright. No white stuff and washed it under water after ward. Is the coil ok to use.

 

[Rockwell222]

Well I just tried dry burning Ti sort of at 9w pulsing it. At one point the center of the coil glowed bright. No white stuff and washed it under water after ward. Is the coil ok to use.

I use them after that plus I don't wash them. I've probably done 100+ titanium builds and the only time I've seen the white scaly ti02 is when I built a crap coil cranked the watts and let it glow, just to see if I could see this ti02. As long as the coil is spaced I never have problems unless something is wrong with the rda/rta or mod.

 

[Croak]

Contact coils lighting up like a Christmas tree!!! Not sure why since I assumed contact would be less problematic....has anyone used this spider wire? I cannot see myself screwing up a contact coil after wrapping kanthal for 4 years, I can do nickel claptons all day long but the Ti has been the hardest wire I've ever used.

8 wrap contact coil 26g and always hot spots on the end and sometimes all throughout the coil. This is with pulsing at 5 watts until a very dull glow in a dark room and using tweezers to tighten the wraps but I'm using a coil jig so they are already tight. Not sure what is going on, I'm clueless.

Sounds like a deck problem more than a Ti problem. Hate to ask the obvious, but did you tighten or back off the grub screws on the Velocity to dial out the hot spots, and verify even length legs, or did you just crank them down and blame the material?

 

[Hitcat44]

Been on this Thread for a LONGGGGG time and have never heard or read of anyone having such extreme issues with Ti.
So,,, given the fact that the Wire/Material Is what it Is, Logic would dictate the Armageddon-esque nightmares are not born of the Ti.
Gonna have to give that witch-hunt up and find the real "Boogie-Man" muckin' up your equation.

Could be the Atty/Deck (as Croak points out), the Mod/Device and/or its Settings (could be malfunctioning or a Dud Board/Chipset), or a Combo of those plus a pinch of User Error (no offense intended).
Again, Smart Money is not on the Ti being the Root Cause UNLESS the Wire you are using is Junk.
What is the Source? Have you procured any from another Vendor and duplicated your Process to eliminate the "Junk-Wire" Suspect?

 

[latexyankee]

Been on this Thread for a LONGGGGG time and have never heard or read of anyone having such extreme issues with Ti.
So,,, given the fact that the Wire/Material Is what it Is, Logic would dictate the Armageddon-esque nightmares are not born of the Ti.
Gonna have to give that witch-hunt up and find the real "Boogie-Man" muckin' up your equation.

Could be the Atty/Deck (as Croak points out), the Mod/Device and/or its Settings (could be malfunctioning or a Dud Board/Chipset), or a Combo of those plus a pinch of User Error (no offense intended).
Again, Smart Money is not on the Ti being the Root Cause UNLESS the Wire you are using is Junk.
What is the Source? Have you procured any from another Vendor and duplicated your Process to eliminate the "Junk-Wire" Suspect?

Never blamed the material at all just posting my initial experiences. I am fully on board that this is user error to some degree. I did not back the grub screws out I keep them tight as I do my nickel builds. I was just saying if I can build nickel right surely I can build Ti correctly?

The wire was spider silk that I picked up from a local shop. I have some unkamen coming will try that. I'm just not sure where I went wrong but all I tried were contact. I will attempt spaced today and give it another shot.

Can anyone clarify if they tend to use a lower wattage on the Ti vs ni200? Obviously higher wattage brings out the hot spots but I usually vape around 50-75 watts depending on build. Also what about preheat? I usually keep this around 100-125 watts and wonder if Ti supports that type of ramp up. To me it shouldn't matter if the build is solid.

If you have any tips please let me know, I'm all for learning and would definately not blame the material on first attempt. I've been here wayyyyy too long to know better. Thanks!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Never blamed the material at all just posting my initial experiences. I am fully on board that this is user error to some degree. I did not back the grub screws out I keep them tight as I do my nickel builds. I was just saying if I can build nickel right surely I can build Ti correctly?

The wire was spider silk that I picked up from a local shop. I have some unkamen coming will try that. I'm just not sure where I went wrong but all I tried were contact. I will attempt spaced today and give it another shot.

Can anyone clarify if they tend to use a lower wattage on the Ti vs ni200? Obviously higher wattage brings out the hot spots but I usually vape around 50-75 watts depending on build. Also what about preheat? I usually keep this around 100-125 watts and wonder if Ti supports that type of ramp up. To me it shouldn't matter if the build is solid.

If you have any tips please let me know, I'm all for learning and would definately not blame the material on first attempt. I've been here wayyyyy too long to know better. Thanks!

In temp control, all the higher wattage/preheat will do is get you to temp quicker. Once at temp, it will back down to whatever power it needs to keep that temp right?!? If you are having problems, why not back everyuthing off, turn off/down the preheat, and try a spaced single coil of Ti...

 

[Rockwell222]

Never blamed the material at all just posting my initial experiences. I am fully on board that this is user error to some degree. I did not back the grub screws out I keep them tight as I do my nickel builds. I was just saying if I can build nickel right surely I can build Ti correctly?

The wire was spider silk that I picked up from a local shop. I have some unkamen coming will try that. I'm just not sure where I went wrong but all I tried were contact. I will attempt spaced today and give it another shot.

Can anyone clarify if they tend to use a lower wattage on the Ti vs ni200? Obviously higher wattage brings out the hot spots but I usually vape around 50-75 watts depending on build. Also what about preheat? I usually keep this around 100-125 watts and wonder if Ti supports that type of ramp up. To me it shouldn't matter if the build is solid.

If you have any tips please let me know, I'm all for learning and would definately not blame the material on first attempt. I've been here wayyyyy too long to know better. Thanks!

Right now with my titanium fused Clapton in my hobo v3 I have my reuleaux at 100w preheat and 60w, that seems to get it there fairly quick. I'm sure when you try spaced you will have much better luck.