Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Str8vision]

I enjoy experimentation and have attempted many different variations of this process modifying heat, duration and other aspects of the process, most either failed or simply didn't improve the results. I've always been leery of high extraction temperatures, most of the research I've conducted indicates excess heat can damage/alters flavor. With that thought in mind, I just finished an experimental extraction of Cornell & Diehl "Mississippi Mud" using lower temperatures with an extended soak time, it yielded a fantastic extract. At no time during this extraction (or the reduction), did the temperature exceed 120F. My latest P&C order will arrive in a few days and I intent to process a few more extractions using this revised process to see if it's as effective on different tobacco blends.

Another change made was in the freeze filtering process. After sitting for 36 hours @ -10F I filtered the extract through 1 micron filter paper (while still in the freezer), instead of using a coffee filter. Freeze filtering and final filtration were combined into one step, seems to have worked quite well.

 

[Exchaner]

I intent to process a few more extractions using this revised process to see if it's as effective on different tobacco blends.

In fact I have noticed that some tobaccos require much more crockpot time. Otherwise some of the flavor might stay behind. A higher temperature might do the job - although I am reluctant to go beyond 160 degrees. My experience though is limited to dry leaves rather than cased/flavored pipe tobacco. As for filtering, only once during the entire process seems to be doing a decent job.

 

[jonnydoe]

I have done a little mistake. I have reduced the extract and wanted to mix it with pg to evaporate the ethanol in the oven. I have put pg with nicotine in the mixture instead of only pg.

Does it matter by heating in the oven ?

 

[Str8vision]

Heat will degrade/oxidize the nicotine, other than that you should be ok.

 

[jonnydoe]

Do you mean a lower level of nicotine by heating ? I dont understand. You are thinking that it doesnt matter ? I have nothing found about it on google.

I have become many little 1-2 mm lumps in all the jars after reducing with pg. At the moment i am filtering the ready extract again through a 2-3 my filter. I have to wait till tomorrow in the evening. Seems that something goes wrong because of the nicotine.

 

[Exchaner]

Do you mean a lower level of nicotine by heating ? I dont understand. You are thinking that it doesnt matter ? I have nothing found about it on google.

I have become many little 1-2 mm lumps in all the jars after reducing with pg. At the moment i am filtering the ready extract again through a 2-3 my filter. I have to wait till tomorrow in the evening. Seems that something goes wrong because of the nicotine.

I hear oxidized Nic is equally potent as unoxidized - just two different forms of the same thing (I believe.)

As for the lumps you have reported, they probably are flavor particles which percipidated out of the solution. It happens when you reduce your extract beyond a certain limit.

 

[jonnydoe]

I have done over 40 extractions but so many and big lumps i have never had.

But it was the first time that i have only extracted rolling tobbaccos. 8 tobaccos with the same big lumbs.

But in the base was nicotine, pg, vg and water ! Perhaps it was the water ?

 

[Exchaner]

Perhaps it was the water ?

Indeed it could. It has happened to me whenever I have used water in the reduction process (with ISO alcohol), but not when I use a small amount in my final mix. Can't tell from your post - did you use water in the reduction process or in your final mix? Seems unusual that it only happens with RYO. If the lumps go away with shaking, that might be normal. What % water did you use? I never go beyond 4% in my final mix.

 

[jonnydoe]

i have used the base (pg, vg, nicotine and 10% water) during the reducing. Shaking did not work for the lumps. I have now half of the extract filtered and i am waiting till the rest is filtered. I am so silly. Tooo many bottles with different bases and other things.

 

[Exchaner]

i have used the base (pg, vg, nicotine and 10% water) during the reducing.

I usually add water after the reduction, but even then, I get a tiny bit of residue that does not dissolve. The amount is minimal, and it goes away with shaking. I think 10% might be a bit too high for DIY NETS.

 

[yourgurnard]

Well, looks like I've gotta carry on waiting to try this PGA method:- My 'tame moonshiner' has run out.......! Apparently some people DRINK it!!?...Bloody Xmas!!!

 

[Str8vision]

A few months ago after a conversation involving temperature control, I bought an Inkbird controller and used it on my slow cooker (crockpot), for extractions. It was fairly accurate and would keep the extraction temperature within about 3 degrees F of the target temperature. For $16 it was a handy addition to my frugal extraction setup but it stopped working after a power spike during last weeks storms. I live in an area of the country that's prone to such storms (Tornado alley), so it's -my- fault it wasn't plugged in to a surge protector, I just wasn't expecting a lightning storm in the middle of winter. I'm definitely going to replace it but thought I'd see if anyone had found a better unit. Here's a link to the one I had; Inkbird Dual Stage Digital Temperature Controller Fahrenheit Thermostat with Sensor for Freezer, Fridge, Home Brewing, Hatching ect - - Amazon.com There are better designed/packaged units that are "pre-wired" but they do the exact same thing and cost about three times as much, here's one of them; Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1000w, w/ Sensor: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific Until I get a replacement I'm back to manipulating the lid on my slow cooker to control temperature, an arduous task. Any other suggestions?

 

[Exchaner]

How about using a light dimmer to control your temperature. Once calibrated, it nails down the temperature for a long long time. It costs less, and unlikely to be damaged in a storm.. Here is the link again which I posted sometime ago.

Lutron TTCL-100H-WH Credenza Dimmable CFL/LED Dimmer, White - Plug In Dimmer Switches - Amazon.com

 

[Str8vision]

Decided to go with the same digital temperature controller I'd been using, for $16 it's a bargain but I'll be using a surge protector this time around. You have to wire 120V in and controlled power out from the controller's terminals but I just cut a 3' extension cord in half using the male end to provide power to the controller and the female end to supply switched (regulated), power for the slow cooker to plug into.

Also bought another three liters of 100mg liquid nic. Already had more than I need in sitting in the freezer but at just $25 a liter for VapersTec Throat-hit, I couldn't resist and shipping was free. I now have enough liquid nic to supply four people for several decades. If prohibition or draconian taxes come, I'll be popular with the locals. 1 Liter EU Sourced Throat-Hit Nic (100 mg USP/EP)

I'm currently processing five extractions at 120F for 48 hours, but am going to tweak the filtering process again. Nylon filter bag for tobacco/solvent separation followed by freeze filtering with a 1 micron glass microfiber lab filter. After reduction and flavor transfer into a PG base, if any oil is present I'll use filter felt to remove it. The Nylon filter bag is a new addition, I like that it's washable/reusable, a three pack was $7. http://www.amazon.com/Teikis-Packs-...&qid=1452383312&sr=1-70&keywords=nut+milk+bag

 

[Jkgato]

Hello to all.
Realy interested NET and have some questions to throw around and hopefully some answers to
Have some questions that can leave to solutions, here they go...
Did any one talk to some pharmacy or laboratory near to try and solve this problem with gunk?
Have any off you alchemists try centrifuge and then decant?
Thanks and I'm sure that all together will find out a good solution
Vape on!


Vape on!

 

[Str8vision]

Gunk isn't much of a problem when using ethanol as the extraction solvent which is one of its primary advantages over PG/VG. Freeze filtering removes most of the wax, resin and plant matter so, for me, coil buildup (crusties) is no worse than when vaping synthetics, it's -wick saturation- that ultimately triggers the need for cleaning. I personally believe wick saturation is caused by oils that are leeched during the extraction process. These oils mix with ethanol to some extent (miscible) and don't readily separate or fall out of solution except when reducing (concentrating) an extract that is -saturated- with it. Even if we remove the oil displaced during reduction the remaining ethanol is still -saturated- with all it can hold in solution. When we vape NET the PG, VG, nic and flavor molecules atomize into vapor but I believe the oils do not and pool up (collect) in the wick saturating it over time. Don't know this for a fact, just my personal thoughts/opinions and observations. I'm relatively certain there are chemical compounds available that could help strip oil from our extracts but I'm reluctant to add chemicals to something I'm going to atomize and inhale.

I do believe a centrifuge would work (quite well), but I'm not sure anything would fall out of solution unless at very low ambient temperatures. Exposing an ethanol based extract to prolonged cold temperatures facilitates precipitation of undesirable elements but this only works with ethanol not with PG or VG. I would enjoy experimenting with a large centrifuge at -30F to clean ethanol based extracts, I doubt filtering would even be necessary but I believe the problematic oil would still be present. Unfortunately, a centrifuge capable of processing the volume of fluid we routinely deal with would be pricy, beyond rational reach of most home brew enthusiasts. If I were producing extracts commercially I would certainly toy around with the idea.

I'd be curious to see what a centrifuge might do for a PG/VG based extract. I have yet to find an effective method of reducing wax, resin, plant matter or oil in a PG/VG extract.

 

[aceswired]

Oh they still gunk. Just less.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[Jkgato]

It would be nice to understand whats thw composition of that gunk... Maybe its important for the flavour and without those compounds the juice gets without flavour.

Vape on!

 

[gt_1955]

I have a bit of a quandary ... I made up a heated ethanol extraction following your (@Str8vision) latest process and used the last of my 190PGA, and in Oz cannot purchase any more I'm just finishing the heated stage, and will be room steeping for 3 days, freeze filtering, mixing with PG for 30 days, and then reducing.

So my quandary is this: do I buy whatever equipment I need to vacuum distill vodka into 190PGA which, disregarding the purchase of the equipment and assuming 95% recovery works out to $109.75/L or ...

Purchase 100% isoproply alcohol @ $24/2L delivered.

My preference is PGA, but it does come with a relatively steep learning curve (what vacuum equipment is required, what vacuum "pressure" is required, what temperature the vodka needs to heated to @ that vacuum, will that vacuum shatter the vacuum distillation glassware, do I need to have/build a PID controlled hotplate etc). A lot of unknowns here.

The isopropyl has it's own problems, you must remove all traces of it in the finished extract as it is toxic (but not deadly toxic).

As I also mix the extract with PG and then reduce that, I assume vacuum distillation will be the best bet no matter which extraction medium is used.

Some guidance would be most appreciated.


Thank you for your time in reading this

 

[Exchaner]

The isopropyl has it's own problems, you must remove all traces of it in the finished extract as it is toxic (but not deadly toxic).

I have used ISO before, and the taste is OK, but somewhat muted. Might be able to compensate by increasing the flavor. You might like to run a test batch before going ahead with your other option.