Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Aurora Indica]

You definitely have to seal the container otherwise the heated ethanol will "rapidly" evaporate off, I use canning jars because they're ideally suited for the heat and pressures involved. The trick is to seal the container tight enough to prevent evaporation but loose enough to allow excess pressure to vent past the lid seal, exactly the same as when canning foods. Low temp extractions (<150F) don't produce significant pressure but those that approach Ethanol's boiling point (>170F) can and the pressure -must- be allowed to vent otherwise the jar could break spilling its contents into the water bath. The way I seal canning jars is I place a lid on the jar and then install the lid ring tightening it until it just contacts the lid and begins pushing it down against the mouth of the jar, that's tight enough. While air-tight at normal pressure excess pressure inside the jar can vent past this seal, exactly what canning jars were designed to do.

Ok I tried a run with a mason jar, the top is screwed on but not too tightly. Its been going half a day and I am not seeing any noticeable evaporation. Thanks for your advice, I will be able to achieve higher temperatures now without worrying that the solvent will be all dried up in the morning. The hot plate was set at 80c, and the temperature of the solution, checked at 2 hour intervals, was 40-42c. FYI, I used direct heat from the hotplate, no water bath. Do you think there would be any difference in the results when using water bath/direct heat?

Sent from my SM-G9287C using Tapatalk

 

[Str8vision]

I prefer to use an enclosed water bath to help ensure equal heating throughout the solvent filled canning jar. I use a crockpot (slow cooker) and a digital temperature controller. Pint and half pint canning jars will sit inside the slow cooker even with it's lid on, the lid helps ensure equal heating and significantly reduces evaporative loss of the water. In an enclosed water bath the solvent temperature is the same as the water temperature. Placing the jar directly on a temperature controlled open air heat source (hot plate) should work just fine but may cause the bottom layer of solvent in the jar (that in direct contact with the burner) to be much hotter than the top layer of solvent in the jar that's furthest away from the heat source but I don't know if that would make any perceivable difference in flavor.

During the extraction, solvent temperature should be -much- higher than 40c unless you're conducting a multi-day (low temp) extraction. For the 12-hour extraction method solvent temp should reach 70c before the 12 hour countdown starts.

 

[TheWestPole]

Hot ethanol extraction produces a more robust, wider spectrum tobacco flavor. In addition to the brighter flavor notes that ethanol alone produces, hot processing also provides the deeper, richer notes cold processing lacks. I've only extracted four different tobacco blends using this method but all turned out quite exceptional, better than well aged PG, VG, and "cold" ethanol extractions of the same tobacco blends.

Prepare a hot bath with water temperature set at 160F (71C). Ethanol boils at 173F (78C), so make sure the process temperature stays below 170F (77C). I use a crock pot set on "warm" but a thermostatically controlled hot plate would work as long as it is accurate.

Place shredded tobacco in a glass container, pour in enough ethanol to completely cover the tobacco plus 5 - 10% extra for absorption. I use half pint canning jars (jelly jars), which work quite well. Lightly seal the container and place it in the hot water bath, add enough warm water to the bath to match the level of ethanol inside the container. Process for 12 hours, check periodically and add water to the bath if needed.

Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Dump the tobacco and ethanol into the coffee filter. Gather/fold the edges of the coffee filter together encapsulating the tobacco inside and gently squeeze to release/recover most of the ethanol. Discard the tobacco and filter. Lightly seal the glass container and place it in a freezer for 24 - 48 hours. Ethanol won't freeze, it just gets cold. The waxes and oils pulled from the tobacco will stratify at the bottom of the container.

Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Retrieve the ethanol from the freezer and gently pour it into the coffee filter while still cold. Don't squeeze the filter this time, just discard it. Now your extract can be filtered to whatever level you prefer, I currently use 1 micron borosilicate glass filter paper.

I use the ethanol extract at 7% as a flavoring but you could also transfer the flavor from the ethanol to either PG or VG. Do this by adding/mixing an equal amount of PG or VG to the ethanol, heat the uncovered mix to 150F and allow the ethanol to evaporate.

Thanks so much for the thread. Finally getting around to trying your method here. I've been doing various kinds of PG/VG extraction and find that the results, while very good, generally yield an extract that tastes best to me at 30-35% in the juice mixture. That means I can only go for 10-15 ml before having to dry burn and rewick. My hope is to extend that. If indeed I can get the extract down to 10% that would be a huge help.

While I'm waiting for a new selection of tobaccos to come in, I'm trying your method on a Thai Ice Tea mix. Had already tried it using my previous method, which tasted great, but dry burn time dropped to around 5 ml. Just not practical. The batch has been in the freezer for a day, and I hope to be vaping it soon. Don't expect to get quite the thorough extraction you do. The cheapie crock pot I bought only hits 145 deg. on warm, and in California I can only get 150 proof grain alcohol. Still hopeful though that I can get that extract percentage down enough to make vaping the juice practical.

 

[Boxster]

Thanks so much for the thread. Finally getting around to trying your method here. I've been doing various kinds of PG/VG extraction and find that the results, while very good, generally yield an extract that tastes best to me at 30-35% in the juice mixture. That means I can only go for 10-15 ml before having to dry burn and rewick. My hope is to decrease the gunking to extend that. If indeed I can get the extract down to 10% that would be a huge help.

While I'm waiting for a new selection of tobaccos to come in, I'm trying your method on a Thai Ice Tea mix. Had already tried it using my previous method, which tasted great, but dry burn time dropped to around 5 ml. Just not practical. The batch has been in the freezer for a day, and I hope to be vaping it soon. Don't expect to get quite the thorough extraction you do. The cheapie crock pot I got only hits 145 deg. on warm, and in California I can only get 150 proof grain alcohol. Still hopeful though that I can get that extract percentage down enough to make vaping the juice practical.

I have found there is a point of diminishing return on flavor when increasing the percentage level. Your coils gunk faster which kills flavor. Your percentage level is 2x what I typically use.

What kind of device are you using?

 

[TheWestPole]

I have found there is a point of diminishing return on flavor when increasing the percentage level. Your coils gunk faster which kills flavor. Your percentage level is 2x what I typically use.

What kind of device are you using?

I gauge the percentages on fresh builds. Haven't tried really low though. Just dropping them in 5% increments.

Device? If you mean atomizer, they are all either RTAs or BF RDAs on squonkers, dual and single coil. No prebuilt coils.

 

[Boxster]

I gauge the percentages on fresh builds. Haven't tried really low though. Just dropping them in 5% increments.

Device? If you mean atomizer, they are all either RTAs or BF RDAs on squonkers, dual and single coil. No prebuilt coils.

Micro or spaced coil? Spaced coils don't get gunk build-up like micro-coils.

Wicking? I have found hemp fiber wicks work best for me. I think the larger diameter fiber leaves larger channels so it doesn't clog as fast. Hemp also has higher heat resistance than cotton. If you burn cotton your done, but with hemp you can continue and eventually get past the burned taste. I like that hemp doesn't swell up like cotton or shrink like rayon. The main down side is there is a short break-in period for hemp, and unless its cleaned well can have an initial flavor.

Just hemp

Temperature control. I was initially hesitant to try TC but it does help prolong coil life.

Of course the best solution is ethanol extraction, or all of the above.

 

[TheWestPole]

Well, I'm vaping the Thai Tea juice using the ethanol extract. Seems like ethanol enhances the throat hit, something I didn't anticipate but I'm fine with. The flavor is there and good but too muted at 10%. Gonna try 15% next.

 

[TheWestPole]

Micro or spaced coil? Spaced coils don't get gunk build-up like micro-coils.

Wicking? I have found hemp fiber wicks work best for me. I think the larger diameter fiber leaves larger channels so it doesn't clog as fast. Hemp also has higher heat resistance than cotton. If you burn cotton your done, but with hemp you can continue and eventually get past the burned taste. I like that hemp doesn't swell up like cotton or shrink like rayon. The main down side is there is a short break-in period for hemp, and unless its cleaned well can have an initial flavor.

Just hemp

Temperature control. I was initially hesitant to try TC but it does help prolong coil life.

Of course the best solution is ethanol extraction, or all of the above.

Yes, I use spaced coils generally, TC about half the time. Interesting point about hemp wick. Gonna stick with rayon for now, but may try that in the future. Thanks.

 

[Boxster]

Yes, I use spaced coils generally, TC about half the time. Interesting point about hemp wick. Gonna stick with rayon for now, but may try that in the future. Thanks.

You probably need to let it age (steep) a while. What PG/VG ratio are you using?
High VG is a flavor killer for me. I mostly vape 60/40 or 50/50 for flavor and because I have to stealth vape during the day.

 

[Str8vision]

Well, I'm vaping the Thai Tea juice using the ethanol extract. Seems like ethanol enhances the throat hit, something I didn't anticipate but I'm fine with. The flavor is there and good but too muted at 10%. Gonna try 15% next.

Did you reduce (concentrate) the extract after freeze filtering it? Also when you mix using an ethanol extract you can let the mix set open air for a day to evaporate much of the ethanol off reducing its flavor/throat hit if desired.

 

[TheWestPole]

Did you reduce (concentrate) the extract after freeze filtering it? Also when you mix using an ethanol extract you can let the mix set open air for a day to evaporate much of the ethanol off reducing its flavor/throat hit if desired.

No, I didn't concentrate it, but that's a good suggestion. I'm going to find a percentage I like without evaporating it, and see where the percentage is at. Then I will try concentrating is that seems like a better way to go. Thanks.

You probably need to let it age (steep) a while. What PG/VG ratio are you using?
High VG is a flavor killer for me. I mostly vape 60/40 or 50/50 for flavor and because I have to stealth vape during the day.

For comparison sake, I'm going to stick with the high VG I prefer. Yes, it does mute flavor and sweeten, but that's what I've settled on after a long time DIYing. I'm sure steeping will improve it. Just want to get the juice in the ball park before the finer adjustments.

 

[Str8vision]

No, I didn't concentrate it, but that's a good suggestion. I'm going to find a percentage I like without evaporating it. Then I will try the evaporation. Thanks.

The only reason I mention (or even recommend) concentrating the extract is so that a lesser percentage of ethanol is needed/included when mixing. Alternately, you could just mix an unreduced ethanol extract and allow the ethanol to evaporate off before vaping it. Personally, I don't mind 7% ethanol in a tobacco mix but much above 10% it begins to influence taste. Let me know how the tea works out, I've never tried a tea extract.

 

[Boxster]

No, I didn't concentrate it, but that's a good suggestion. I'm going to find a percentage I like without evaporating it, and see where the percentage is at. Then I will try concentrating is that seems like a better way to go. Thanks.



For comparison sake, I'm going to stick with the high VG I prefer. Yes, it does mute flavor and sweeten, but that's what I've settled on after a long time DIYing. I'm sure steeping will improve it. Just want to get the juice in the ball park before the finer adjustments.

Some juice mixers will add some (drops) of PGA to add some throat hit.
I think PGA adds harshness more than actual TH, so I try to reduce as much as possible.

 

[Str8vision]

I actually like the harshness

 

[Boxster]

I actually like the harshness

I think you also vape higher VG which smooths out/removes much of the throat hit.

 

[TheWestPole]

The only reason I mention (or even recommend) concentrating the extract is so that a lesser percentage of ethanol is needed/included when mixing. Alternately, you could just mix an unreduced ethanol extract and allow the ethanol to evaporate off before vaping it. Personally, I don't mind 7% ethanol in a tobacco mix but much above 10% it begins to influence taste. Let me know how the tea works out, I've never tried a tea extract.

At 10% I was already tasting the ethanol, 15% even more so. So your point is well taken. Looks like I'm going in the direction of concentrating the extract.

If I leave a fresh ethanol extract out with a open wide mouth jar, how long do you suppose it would take to reduce the volume by 50%?

ETA: I just started the evaporation. We shall see soon enough.

 

[Str8vision]

If I leave a fresh ethanol extract out with a open wide mouth jar, how long do you suppose it would take to reduce the volume by 50%?

At room temperature, placed in front of a small fan (on low) a 75% reduction of 100ml takes the better part of a day to achieve. Without the fan the same reduction could take a couple of days.

 

[TheWestPole]

At room temperature, placed in front of a small fan (on low) a 75% reduction of 100ml takes the better part of a day to achieve. Without the fan the same reduction could take a couple of days.

Thanks. Is that the most reduced you go, 75%?

 

[Str8vision]

75% is usually my goal for tobacco extracts + or - 5%. After the reduction I seal the container and allow the reduced extract to sit for a few days, undisturbed, so the oils can finish falling out of solution coalescing into a skim or globules. Then I filter the extract and bottle it.

 

[TheWestPole]

75% is usually my goal for tobacco extracts + or - 5%. After the reduction I seal the container and allow the reduced extract to sit for a few days, undisturbed, so the oils can finish falling out of solution coalescing into a skim or globules. Then I filter the extract and bottle it.

Okay, filter again after reduction. That's with your 1 micron filter and under pressure, right?