Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

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seebo

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That is just the type of lid I was referring to in my earlier post. Are they available in smaller sizes, and does the inner piece have a plastic coating? I am looking for one with 3 oz capacity. No luck so far.
do you have a hobby lobby close by? they have huge selection of jars, which most are classified as "canning jars" they have a seal on the lid which is made to hold up to high heat. right now they are having a 50% off sale, after the discount the 1/2 pint size jars are like $1~ each. you can also try Michaels arts and crafts.. surely you have one of those places near by. they often have good deals/coupons..

i was at hobby lobby today, picked up some 2oz bottles veg glycerin for $1.50 after 40% off coupon they have.
 
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Str8vision

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When I freeze filter ethanol extracts I use a plain coffee filter inside a canning funnel that's sitting in the mouth of a canning jar. I set the filtering apparatus inside the freezer, pour the ice cold extract into the coffee filter and close the freezer door. After 15 minutes or so I retrieve the filtered extract and allow it to warm to room temperature before proceeding with the final 1 micron filtering. What I noticed is that some of the gunk passes (washes), through the coffee filter and back into the extract, not much but some none the less. I think next time I might try using filter felt instead of a coffee filter, perhaps the fuzzy texture of filter felt will help retain the gunk better. Any thoughts?
 

Exchaner

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I did an extraction using Isopropyl Alcohol, and unlike our beloved friend who wound up at the morgue with a number around his toe, I managed to survive.

The flavor is solid, and there is no after-taste at all. I did notice a tiny bit of flat flavor as earlier mentioned by str8vision, but I tried to minimize that by soaking the tobacco a few days and raising the temp to 165 degrees. The downside was, I wound up with a lot of dis-entegrated tobacco on the bottom because of the high temp. The extract is much lighter than one done with ethanol, but fortunately that does not translate into a lack of flavor. Altogether I am quite satisfied with the results.
 
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seebo

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When I freeze filter ethanol extracts I use a plain coffee filter inside a canning funnel that's sitting in the mouth of a canning jar. I set the filtering apparatus inside the freezer, pour the ice cold extract into the coffee filter and close the freezer door. After 15 minutes or so I retrieve the filtered extract and allow it to warm to room temperature before proceeding with the final 1 micron filtering. What I noticed is that some of the gunk passes (washes), through the coffee filter and back into the extract, not much but some none the less. I think next time I might try using filter felt instead of a coffee filter, perhaps the fuzzy texture of filter felt will help retain the gunk better. Any thoughts?

the fuzz might help, but you'd also probably waste more liquid as it probably would absorb more of it? i also don't think it's a good idea to squeeze the filter to recover more liquid as you might force particles out of the filter that were already captured.

i have tried two different coffee filters i have. one is a traditional cup style filter and the other is a cone style filter. what i've discovered is the cone style coffee filter seems to filter better. i noticed that the liquid takes almost twice as long to go through compared to the cup/pot style filter. if it takes longer it must mean it's doing a better job filtering. i took both filters to a light bulb to see which had less light visible, clearly the filter i suspected was doing a better job shows less light.. another thing about these cone style filters is there is a crease/fold which also seems to help trap some of the particles, they're also more paper-like than the other softer filters which are more like thin towel paper.

20151218_210437.jpg 20151218_210543 copy.jpg 20151218_210844.jpg
 
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Bunnykiller

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When I freeze filter ethanol extracts I use a plain coffee filter inside a canning funnel that's sitting in the mouth of a canning jar. I set the filtering apparatus inside the freezer, pour the ice cold extract into the coffee filter and close the freezer door. After 15 minutes or so I retrieve the filtered extract and allow it to warm to room temperature before proceeding with the final 1 micron filtering. What I noticed is that some of the gunk passes (washes), through the coffee filter and back into the extract, not much but some none the less. I think next time I might try using filter felt instead of a coffee filter, perhaps the fuzzy texture of filter felt will help retain the gunk better. Any thoughts?
Kinda torn on this one... ethanol does a good job of suspending oils in solution ( it is a solvent). Seeing that colder temps do make some oils less miscible in solution does allow for separation to occur and filtering better. When doing the heated reduction, I see oils form again ( after cold filtering) on the surface and also on the extract/bowl contact surfaces.
Only method I havent tried yet is "super cooling" with dry ice to see if anything else will drop out of solution. Im wondering just how many different forms of oil do exist in a NET extract and if removing all of them reduces the flavor characteristics of what we are extracting? Are we trying too hard to remove the "gunk" and loosing some of the flavors in the process? no telling... maybe some intense experimenting is required to determine if it is detrimental...
 
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Exchaner

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After 15 minutes or so I retrieve the filtered extract and allow it to warm to room temperature before proceeding with the final 1 micron filtering. Any thoughts?

Is there any benefit to filtering the extract at room temperature?. Waxes and oils might cling better to the filter while they solid/cold.
 
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seebo

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it's maybe more like some type of waxy residue that begins to melt and seperate when heated again. if it were oil, it wouldn't be on the surface, would it? i would think oil is more dense than alcohol so it would not be floating on the top. the waxy stuff on the other hand is more likely to be on the surface when the alcohol is in a hot state.
 
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Exchaner

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it's maybe more like some type of waxy residue that begins to melt and seperate when heated again. if it were oil, it wouldn't be on the surface, would it? i would think oil is more dense than alcohol so it would not be floating on the top. the waxy stuff on the other hand is more likely to be on the surface when the alcohol is in a hot state.

I know from cooking that oil rises to the top as the food cools down.
 
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Str8vision

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Is there any benefit to filtering the extract at room temperature?. Waxes and oils might cling better to the filter while they solid/cold.

I haven't tried to perform the final filtering at lowered temperatures, perhaps after the initial gunk removal I could transfer the extract directly into a final filtering setup while still in the freezer. At -10F it might take awhile to gravity flow through a 1 micron filter but could be worth a try.

Kinda torn on this one... ethanol does a good job of suspending oils in solution ( it is a solvent). Seeing that colder temps do make some oils less miscible in solution does allow for separation to occur and filtering better. When doing the heated reduction, I see oils form again ( after cold filtering) on the surface and also on the extract/bowl contact surfaces.
Only method I havent tried yet is "super cooling" with dry ice to see if anything else will drop out of solution. Im wondering just how many different forms of oil do exist in a NET extract and if removing all of them reduces the flavor characteristics of what we are extracting? Are we trying too hard to remove the "gunk" and loosing some of the flavors in the process? no telling... maybe some intense experimenting is required to determine if it is detrimental...

I've noticed that on average VaPer blends seem to yield more oil/gunk than other types of tobacco, for me they're the only extractions (so far), that have yielded visible oil after the freeze filtering step. I haven't freeze filtered at temperatures lower than -10F so can't really say if significantly lower temperatures would be more productive or not but suspect they would. I know that my regular freezer (a side-by-side refrigerator/freezer), set at +5F doesn't work as well as the deep freezer which is set at -10F and that's just a 15 degree difference. As with sub-micron mechanical filtering I'm sure there is some point where flavor could be affected by removing too much gunk but so far I haven't been able to breach that boundary. The nearest dry ice for me would be an hour and a half round trip so I doubt I'll be experimenting with it anytime soon.

the fuzz might help, but you'd also probably waste more liquid as it probably would absorb more of it? i also don't think it's a good idea to squeeze the filter to recover more liquid as you might force particles out of the filter that were already captured.

I use a mechanical filter holder W/feed reservoir so the surface area of the filter felt is less than 2" in diameter, not much solvent loss with that small of a filter likely around 2 - 3ml which is about what I lose to a full coffee filter. I'm not worried about catching particulates at this stage only coalesced oils, resin and wax, the final filtering stage will take care of any particulates. You're right, definitely can't squeeze the filter or I'm sure the gunk would ooze through.

i have tried two different coffee filters i have. one is a traditional cup style filter and the other is a cone style filter. what i've discovered is the cone style coffee filter seems to filter better. i noticed that the liquid takes almost twice as long to go through compared to the cup/pot style filter. if it takes longer it must mean it's doing a better job filtering. i took both filters to a light bulb to see which had less light visible, clearly the filter i suspected was doing a better job shows less light.. another thing about these cone style filters is there is a crease/fold which also seems to help trap some of the particles, they're also more paper-like than the other softer filters which are more like thin towel paper.

I hadn't really thought about looking for coffee filters with better retention properties, definitely something I can research. I had thought about using 11 micron filter paper (11 cents each), but I believe the pasty gunk would simply clog it too fast.
 

Str8vision

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I did an extraction using Isopropyl Alcohol, and unlike our beloved friend who wound up at the morgue with a number around his toe, I managed to survive.

:lol:


The downside was, I wound up with a lot of dis-entegrated tobacco on the bottom because of the high temp.

Nothing that filtration can't remedy. Are you going to freeze filter the extract to see/gauge how much gunk the Isopropyl Alcohol pulled from the tobacco? My extraction was performed long before learning how to precipitate gunk from an alcohol base, that step might make a difference in overall flavor. :)
 

seebo

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i used the more porous coffee filter during the first two filterings, then used the paper-like coffee filter for the last two.

right now i have the two extracts, right next to each other in a water bath reducing at about 137-140F. one odd thing i noticed is that the Sweet Brightleaf extract (the slightly lighter color) is reducing twice as fast as the other American Virginia extract. after about 4 hours its about 50% reduced, while the American has only reduced about 25%. bizarre.
 
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rolf

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made some net s two years ago . just used crockpot to heat pipe tobacco in pg . then filtered 5 times throw coffee paper filters . then gave up on it because it clogs the atty and wick to fast . tried vaping it the other day ..still clogs pretty fast , but flavor is there . maybe ill try again using some of the exelent tips here ...vodka maybe ?
and cold filtering .
stupid question ... has distilling a place in nets ? would flavor transfer over ? or not so stupid?
 

seebo

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stupid question ... has distilling a place in nets ? would flavor transfer over ? or not so stupid?
distilling wouldn't work because only the clean liquid would be removed, back to it's original state except in a more purified form ;-)
check your local liquor store, in many states you can buy pure grain alcohol which is 95% alcohol / 195 proof. using alcohol is much easier to remove the majority of gunk compared to PG/VG.
 

rolf

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distilling wouldn't work because only the clean liquid would be removed, back to it's original state except in a more purified form ;-)
check your local liquor store, in many states you can buy pure grain alcohol which is 95% alcohol / 195 proof. using alcohol is much easier to remove the majority of gunk compared to PG/VG.
thanks seebo !
I ll try to get some . and play some more with it . will reread this thread for so many new ideas what I did not try jet.
 

aceswired

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Should I be concerned about using jars with rubber rings such as these? I have been replacing the rings with several layers of aluminum foil. Concerned about transferring rubber taste. That could be the cause of my excessive waste.


View attachment 515828
Synthetics and high proof ethanol don't mix.
How strong is the taste of a pg extraction referring to the ethanol extraction ?


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Str8vision

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made some net s two years ago . just used crockpot to heat pipe tobacco in pg . then filtered 5 times throw coffee paper filters . then gave up on it because it clogs the atty and wick to fast . tried vaping it the other day ..still clogs pretty fast , but flavor is there . maybe ill try again using some of the exelent tips here ...vodka maybe ?
and cold filtering .
stupid question ... has distilling a place in nets ? would flavor transfer over ? or not so stupid?

You could try filtering your old PG based extract through 2 - 3 micron filter paper, it helps significantly. You should be able to vape 4 - 6ml before needing to re-wick.

If you want to try using hot ethanol, get some PGA (Pure Grain Alcohol), for the extraction. There's a bit of a learning curve to using this method, it's not as simple or easy as a cold or hot PG based extraction. It does produce a much cleaner better performing extract.
 

aceswired

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distilling wouldn't work because only the clean liquid would be removed, back to it's original state except in a more purified form ;-)
check your local liquor store, in many states you can buy pure grain alcohol which is 95% alcohol / 195 proof. using alcohol is much easier to remove the majority of gunk compared to PG/VG.
No, it wouldn't be more pure. That's why you taste the grain in whiskey and the fruit in brandy. But it would strip out a LOT of flavor.

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seebo

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No, it wouldn't be more pure. That's why you taste the grain in whiskey and the fruit in brandy. But it would strip out a LOT of flavor.
perhaps purified wasn't the proper term, the purity as in alcohol. since the 5% water it originally had would be much less. probably would turn the 95% into 99% alcohol. ;-) but i still think if any of the tobacco flavor would make it out, probably after mixing with eliquid it likely would be so diluted you couldn't taste it at all.

i'm going to try and figure out how to capture the liquid that is evaporated when concentrating the extract as its a huge waste of PGA.
 
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seebo

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finished reducing the two extracts. started with about 375ml of PGA, divided that into two half pint jars, 180ml~ each, after filtered several times and a couple small spills, probably ended up with around 130ml of each extract. from that 130ml, after reducing in a bath of water at 140F it took 8-9 hrs and i ended up with 20ml and 26ml of extract.

seems like a little, but using at 7%, it's about 2ml per 30ml eliquid. i should be able to make ten~ 30ml eliquid bottles. if the sh*t taste good it's worth the effort. mixed a batch with 50/50 pg/vg and its off to steeping for a few days before a test. didn't add any nicotine since i'm out of it, got an order in for some, but won't be here until monday.
 
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