US Senate Appropriations Cmte approves bill urging FDA to issue "deeming" regulation for unregulated tobacco products, including e-cigarettes

[bnrkwest]

Well Stocking up is still not a bad idea after you write to congress and the Prez, which I have done The biggest problem I see even at the top is they think ecigs contain antifreeze, but in reality SAFE anti freeze contains PG, they have it ... backwards. If we can get someone's ear by sending in Dr's supporting ecig benefits like the AMA, that would be a big help. I am also interested in seeing what Blu does, they say they use no PG in their juice from Johnson Creek, I am wondering if this on purpose to say to FDA, oh no our ecigs have no antifreeze in then, Hmmmm, we shall see!!! bnrk

 

[Luisa]

In response to Willie's inquiry, it now appears unlikely that the appropriations bill will contain that language on Senate passage, but the damage has already been done (as the FDA takes seriously suggestions that are included in Congressional committee reports by committees that appropriate FDA funds).

We need to convince at least one of the Republican House Committee Chairs who oversees FDA to inform FDA (via legislation, committee report and/or direct communicitions) that it opposes the "deeming" regulation for currently unregulated tobacco products. I and several others have been corresponding with key House Republicans and their staff, and will now step up our efforts (as our previously stated concerns about Senate Democrats increasingly pressuring the FDA to promulgate the "deeming" regulation have been verified by recent actions).

We also need to expose the many negative ramifications for consumer and public health, and for the e-cigarette industry, that would be imposed by the "deeming" regulation and/or FDA's implementation of it.

Give us names,States,and districts of those House Members and we can begin contacting them. The Speaker certainly needs to be contacted. He should be sympathetic. Surely,there are vapors in his District.

 

[DC2]

I noticed that some people are saying that it's time to stock up on supplies and that they keep their stuff in the freezer. I have no idea how to make my own e-juice so I buy from a few different suppliers. Can I still buy the pre made juice and freeze that? If so, how long will it last for?

Follow this thread through and you will get everything you need to know...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/134842-long-term-storage-e-liquid.html

 

[Vocalek]

Well Stocking up is still not a bad idea after you write to congress and the Prez, which I have done The biggest problem I see even at the top is they think ecigs contain antifreeze, but in reality SAFE anti freeze contains PG, they have it ... backwards. If we can get someone's ear by sending in Dr's supporting ecig benefits like the AMA, that would be a big help. I am also interested in seeing what Blu does, they say they use no PG in their juice from Johnson Creek, I am wondering if this on purpose to say to FDA, oh no our ecigs have no antifreeze in then, Hmmmm, we shall see!!! bnrk

There still seems to be a lot of confusion about the antifreeze issue. When the FDA stated that they found "an ingredient used in antifreeze" in one of the samples of e-cigarettes they tested, they were not talking about the Propylene Glycol (PG). The FDA specified that they found 1% Diethylene Glycol (DEG) in one of the samples tested.

DEG is much more toxic than PG.

The first rule of toxicology is that "The dose makes the poison." What this means is that almost anything is toxic in large enough quantities, and almost anything is safe is small enough quantities. Talking in percents doesn't give enough information to determine whether the quantity of DEG is actually dangerous. But if you figure that the Smoking Everywhere cartridges hold, at most, 0.5 ml of liquid, then 1% of that is 0.005 ml (grams) of DEG.

The median lethal dose (LD50) of DEG for humans is approximately 1 gram per kg of body weight. A very light weight adult might weigh about 50 kg, so they would need to ingest 50 grams of DEG to reach the LD50. At 0.005 grams of DEG per SE cartridge (assuming all cartridges contained that much DEG, which is doubtful since the FDA only found one), our 50 kg adult (about 110 pounds) would need to ingest the contents of 10,000 cartridges to reach the LD50 of DEG--in a single day, since DEG clears the body within 24 hours.

If the liquid also contains nicotine, our 50 kg adult would reach the LD50 of nicotine (oral) much sooner than the LD50 of DEG.
But wait! E-cigarette users don't drink the liquid--they vaporize it.

How much DEG did the FDA find in vapor? None.

See: FDA's partial truths and exaggerations endanger health

 

[bnrkwest]

There still seems to be a lot of confusion about the antifreeze issue. When the FDA stated that they found "an ingredient used in antifreeze" in one of the samples of e-cigarettes they tested, they were not talking about the Propylene Glycol (PG). The FDA specified that they found 1% Diethylene Glycol (DEG) in one of the samples tested.

DEG is much more toxic than PG.

The first rule of toxicology is that "The dose makes the poison." What this means is that almost anything is toxic in large enough quantities, and almost anything is safe is small enough quantities. Talking in percents doesn't give enough information to determine whether the quantity of DEG is actually dangerous. But if you figure that the Smoking Everywhere cartridges hold, at most, 0.5 ml of liquid, then 1% of that is 0.005 ml (grams) of DEG.

The median lethal dose (LD50) of DEG for humans is approximately 1 gram per kg of body weight. A very light weight adult might weigh about 50 kg, so they would need to ingest 50 grams of DEG to reach the LD50. At 0.005 grams of DEG per SE cartridge (assuming all cartridges contained that much DEG, which is doubtful since the FDA only found one), our 50 kg adult (about 110 pounds) would need to ingest the contents of 10,000 cartridges to reach the LD50 of DEG--in a single day, since DEG clears the body within 24 hours.

If the liquid also contains nicotine, our 50 kg adult would reach the LD50 of nicotine (oral) much sooner than the LD50 of DEG.
But wait! E-cigarette users don't drink the liquid--they vaporize it.

How much DEG did the FDA find in vapor? None.

See: FDA's partial truths and exaggerations endanger health

Ok that makes sense! They were talking about DEG not PG. And you are so right! It is all about dose, not that I want any DEG if I don't need it bnrk

 

[Splinter]

Thank you very much DC2. I followed the link you posted and the followed the many links following yours and found the information I was looking for. Like I said, my husband and I don't make our own and we are not sure if we are even going to try but at least now I know that I can stock up on our favorite juice and store them in a cool, dark, dry place. I had no idea that if they are stored that way, they will stay fresh for up to 24 months if they are in dark glass bottles and sealed. Please correct me if I said anything wrong. Thanks again

 

[DedTV]

Give us names,States,and districts of those House Members and we can begin contacting them.

Find Your Representative · House.gov
U.S. Senate: Senators Home

 

[rothenbj]

OT Yup, this country is concerned about the health and welfare of our youth. I don't know if any of you have caught the MTV sitcom "The Hard Times of RJ Berger", but I clicked on it via Netflix today as I was trying to reconstruct my netbook from a software crash.

These are HS kids whose whole existence resolves around getting sx, drinking and drugs. I suppose, since they're not smoking, they're fitting right in with proper society.

 

[Uncle Willie]

OT Yup, this country is concerned about the health and welfare of our youth. I don't know if any of you have caught the MTV sitcom "The Hard Times of RJ Berger", but I clicked on it via Netflix today as I was trying to reconstruct my netbook from a software crash.

These are HS kids whose whole existence resolves around getting sx, drinking and drugs. I suppose, since they're not smoking, they're fitting right in with proper society.

You realize that behavior has been going on for thousands of years .. ??

 

[zoiDman]

What is curious is the Timing of the sale of Blu.

I’m wonder what type of Structure Lorillard see the e-cigarette Market to be in the Future?

 

[DC2]

You realize that behavior has been going on for thousands of years .. ??

I'm thinking his point was that sex, drinking, and drugs are okay for teens on television, but smoking is not.
How absurd would that be, if that was the direction society is taking?

 

[DC2]

What is curious is the Timing of the sale of Blu.

And the curious part of that is...
The Dragonite patent.

I don't think enough attention is being paid to the elephant in the room.
And the elephant, it seems to me, is most definitely the patent.

That patent appears to be shaping the future of vaping in America.

 

[trying]

Just because something is patented does not make it legal.
On that note, does anyone have a picture of what a 2006 Ruyan E-cigarette looks like.
Just curious to see what the future might have to be.

 

[zoiDman]

And the curious part of that is...
The Dragonite patent.

...

Possible.

Blu Cig Settles with Dragonite and Dragonite gets new patent issued — TobaccoToday

I think there are Many Balls in the Air Right Now.

 

[sqirl1]

Dear ....:
[Apologies, sir. My word processing program censored your first name.]

I find some of your statements absolutely fascinating. Would you please elaborate on the following.

Your press release states, "many companies turned to flavored cigars to help attract and retain young customers."

• Specify the names of at least three such companies.
• How many flavored cigars did they sell annually before and then after the FDA outlawed flavored cigarettes?

Your release also states, "Cigars with candy-like flavorings such as strawberry, watermelon, vanilla and chocolate are marketed to young people, and get them hooked on this deadly and addictive habit at a young age." Where and how are the cigars being marketed?

• Are there cigar ads running on MTV? In teen magazines?
• Have tobacco companies set up shop next door to schools?
• Are their cigar sales reps waiting around in malls and playgrounds calling kids over with "Pssst, wanna yummy cigar, kid"?

Your release states that flavored cigars "have recently become increasingly popular among children and young adults."
Young adults will need to be responsible for themselves, but there are laws against selling tobacco products to kids. What are the statistics regarding the flavors kids are buying?

• What's the market mix among the various flavors?
• What is the most popular cigar flavor among elementary age children?
• Among middle school students?
• Among senior high school students?

I'm sure you have this information handy. I look forward to your speedy reply.

Signed,

Concerned Grandmother

P.S. Since selling tobacco to kids is against the law, how many arrests have been made connected with sales of flavored cigars?

heres another question you should have put in: how many of the kids that DO buy flavored cigars actually smoke the tobacco inside them? most kids who get flavored cigars usually put other things in them if ya know what I mean. I have a 16 year old brother, I know these things.

 

[Retriever]

Wow! Having to fight for our rights to vape, and this industry is not that old. The only thing that will be left is the old nasty overpriced cigs, and the Altoids tins.

 

[sqirl1]

and what's REALLY stupid about this is that the best selling flavors for cigars are probably ones that DON'T appeal to kids like cognac or wine. I mean come on they could at least make an exception for flavors like that!

 

[sandybeach]

Beautifully put! Thank you for the thoughtful post.

Hoarding seems to be the root of all this evil. Politicians hoarding power, BT and BP hoarding money, and now consumers are hoarding for themselves. As stated earlier, why are more people not banning together on this. my (unmentioned) company has over 10,000 e-cig users in our home state of Illinois alone. We will be working diligently to rally the troops, but that will not be enough. This needs to be brought to national spotlight as tobacco related deaths are one of the leading health epidemics in the nation.

Some of you might think I'm preaching to the choir, but what are you REALLy doing about it? Spend some of that time, money and effort from hoarding to doing something that will make a difference for all of us. My company quietly supports CASAA on a monthly basis, we actively are collecting testimonials, we've reached out to the FDA for information and we are CONSTANTLY educating the public on a scale and in directions that many of you could't imagine. I think the vendors are have begun to do their part, they have to. They have a vested (and many of them personal) interest in the industry. The vendors are the ones creating the awareness to the public that this product even exists, although the efforts may not always be organized. It's bad for business to mix politics, it's good for consumers/voters to be the ones to stand up. Unfortunately, the consumers are not organized either. They may be to some extent on this forum, but this forum is a VERY small fraction of the industry.

Forgive me for my rant, but I have lurked on this forum for a few years and continue to see fear mongering with laziness with so many people. There are a very select few actively doing anything. Talk is cheap, cigarettes and cancer are not.

Rant over, back to awareness for me. Top of my list today, contact our State Senator, .... Durbin.....

7 billion people in the world and counting. Never the less, whatever YOU do makes a difference.

 

[rothenbj]

I'm thinking his point was that sex, drinking, and drugs are okay for teens on television, but smoking is not.
How absurd would that be, if that was the direction society is taking?

Precisely and Willie, smoking has been there side by side with those other three.

 

[zoiDman]

I'll say what some other Members have Mentioned Already.

A Possible Sweeping Change to e-Liquid Taxation - 60 Posts?

Heck, I've seen 250 post threads where people get All Bent about Provari vs. Lavatube. And 10 of them Running Concurrently.