OK, thanks. I didn't think about the paper being ripped under high pressure good point!
The Spectra filters are pretty expensive though. It looks like they can work though:
Spectra Mesh choice of 5 Mesh materials at Spectrum Labs
VG Pipe Tobacco Essense
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OK, thanks. I didn't think about the paper being ripped under high pressure good point!
The Spectra filters are pretty expensive though. It looks like they can work though:
Spectra Mesh choice of 5 Mesh materials at Spectrum Labs
I filtered the liquid using Kurt method. I ended up with about 70 ish mls out of 100. Is that ok? I squeezed what I could out of the tobacco.
Here's some of the info I found a while back that got me started with the Buchner filter.
Herb Filtration Techniques
After reading some people’s posts, I though it would be good to have a thread devoted purely to filtration techniques. So please feel free to add any pertinent information here on filtration tricks you may know of. I’ll start off by talking about a few tricks SWIM has learned over time.
Preventing Filter Papers from Clogging with Diatomaceous Earth!
OK, we’ve all experienced times when we’re filtering an extract and the filters keep clogging even when using a vacuum filtration system. Sometimes the filters get clogged and then break and all the particles fall into your filtrate messing up everything! That’s happened to me quite a few times.
Here’s the trick that pro’s use to prevent the filters from clogging. Add 1 cm of diatomaceous earth on top of the filter in the Buchner funnel, and then put another filter on top of the diatomaceous earth. The filter on top of the diatomaceous earth prevents the diatomaceous earth from moving around while you pour your extract over it. With this method, SWIM has never had a filter ever get clogged. With this method you can use really cheap filters. It slows down filtration a little, but since it won’t clog, you can let your herb extract filter overnight without ever changing the filter! It’s a great trick especially for those really hard to filter herb extracts.
Cold Filtering Powdered Herb Extracts
This method is very simple. After you boil your herb (or Soxhlet it, whatever) and it cools down, place it in a tall container in the refrigerator overnight. This causes the proteins and other particles to coagulate and settle out of suspension making them easier to filter out. Carefully and slowly pour of the liquid, making sure not to disturb any of the sediment in the container. Now filter the liquid while cold through normal filter papers to get out that last bit of plant solids. This technique is often used for cactus and similar herbs that are extremely difficult to filter.
Cotton Ball Filtering
Cotton balls, the type sold at pharmacies, are excellent for filtering. They are cheap and don’t clog nearly as fast as filter papers do. They are excellent for getting out all the large pieces, but don’t usually filter out the microscopic pieces. For those really tough to filter herbs, it’s sometimes good to filter through cotton balls first, and then filter through paper. Use a vacuum filtering system and use a normal funnel, not a Buchner funnel. Wet the cotton ball a little to make a good seal and to prevent it from popping up. Place the cotton ball in the funnel and press it into place with the vacuum turned on. Then pour the plant matter into the funnel. If it gets clogged, remove the cotton ball and put another one.
Glass Micro Fiber Filter Paper
These are pricey. They can be 5 times or more the price of normal filter papers. These filters are excellent though. They take much longer to clog and take far more force to break than normal paper filters. One filter can last as long as about 5 normal filter papers before clogging, so even though they cost more, they give much better performance making the cost worth it for some cases. If you’re filtering something that is really easy to filter, just use normal papers. But if you’re filtering something that keeps breaking or clogging normal papers than you need to use glass micro fiber filter papers. The other option is to use normal papers combined with diatomaceous earth.
Vacuum Filtration with a Buchner Funnel
Vacuum filtration is much faster than normal filtration (called gravity filtration). With a vacuum pump attached to the system, the liquid is sucked through the Buchner funnel. What normally would take hours to filter can be done in minutes.
As far as Buchner funnels go, the best type is the polypropylene two piece Buchner funnel. These funnels come apart and are very easy to clean and have a much larger capacity than a normal glazed porcelain Buchner funnel.
The normal glazed porcelain Buchner funnels have better chemical and temperature resistance though. They also cost more and are nearly impossible to clean because they don’t open up.
The other option is a fritted glass Buchner funnel. These have the best chemical resistance, are very pricey, but don’t require filter papers because they have a permanent glass filter built in. If they get clogged, you simply apply pressure instead of vacuum to unclog them. Because of this, they are reusable over and over. It’s similar to a permanent coffee filter, but made of glass. Because you don’t have to buy filter papers over and over, in the long run these can save you money. But they don’t filter out extremely small particles. The filter is usually either fine (about 5 µm), medium (about 10 µm), or coarse (about 50 µm). In comparison, fine filter papers are usually rated at 1 µm (1 micron).
Filtering Out Tannins?
Some plants contain a lot of tannins. Tannins are water soluble and need to be precipitated out before they can be filtered out. One common method is to add milk, egg whites, or gelatin. The proteins in these combine with the tannins and this causes them to be insoluble in water so that they can be filtered out. Before adding one of these, the herb extract should be acidic (about pH 4 is good). This method of precipitating tannins by adding protein is commonly used in wine.
Another method is to add calcium hydroxide (lime). When calcium hydroxide reacts with tannins, the result is calcium tannate. Calcium tannate is insoluble in water and so it can be filtered out. However, calcium hydroxide will make the extract alkaline, and may cause some alkaloids to become insoluble in water as well (harmine for example) and those would also get filtered out. Also it may decompose some alkaloids if too much is used (such as psilocin or bufotenine for example).
Herb Filtration Techniques
After reading some people’s posts, I though it would be good to have a thread devoted purely to filtration techniques. So please feel free to add any pertinent information here on filtration tricks you may know of. I’ll start off by talking about a few tricks SWIM has learned over time.
Preventing Filter Papers from Clogging with Diatomaceous Earth!
OK, we’ve all experienced times when we’re filtering an extract and the filters keep clogging even when using a vacuum filtration system. Sometimes the filters get clogged and then break and all the particles fall into your filtrate messing up everything! That’s happened to me quite a few times.
Here’s the trick that pro’s use to prevent the filters from clogging. Add 1 cm of diatomaceous earth on top of the filter in the Buchner funnel, and then put another filter on top of the diatomaceous earth. The filter on top of the diatomaceous earth prevents the diatomaceous earth from moving around while you pour your extract over it. With this method, SWIM has never had a filter ever get clogged. With this method you can use really cheap filters. It slows down filtration a little, but since it won’t clog, you can let your herb extract filter overnight without ever changing the filter! It’s a great trick especially for those really hard to filter herb extracts.
Cold Filtering Powdered Herb Extracts
This method is very simple. After you boil your herb (or Soxhlet it, whatever) and it cools down, place it in a tall container in the refrigerator overnight. This causes the proteins and other particles to coagulate and settle out of suspension making them easier to filter out. Carefully and slowly pour of the liquid, making sure not to disturb any of the sediment in the container. Now filter the liquid while cold through normal filter papers to get out that last bit of plant solids. This technique is often used for cactus and similar herbs that are extremely difficult to filter.
Cotton Ball Filtering
Cotton balls, the type sold at pharmacies, are excellent for filtering. They are cheap and don’t clog nearly as fast as filter papers do. They are excellent for getting out all the large pieces, but don’t usually filter out the microscopic pieces. For those really tough to filter herbs, it’s sometimes good to filter through cotton balls first, and then filter through paper. Use a vacuum filtering system and use a normal funnel, not a Buchner funnel. Wet the cotton ball a little to make a good seal and to prevent it from popping up. Place the cotton ball in the funnel and press it into place with the vacuum turned on. Then pour the plant matter into the funnel. If it gets clogged, remove the cotton ball and put another one.
Glass Micro Fiber Filter Paper
These are pricey. They can be 5 times or more the price of normal filter papers. These filters are excellent though. They take much longer to clog and take far more force to break than normal paper filters. One filter can last as long as about 5 normal filter papers before clogging, so even though they cost more, they give much better performance making the cost worth it for some cases. If you’re filtering something that is really easy to filter, just use normal papers. But if you’re filtering something that keeps breaking or clogging normal papers than you need to use glass micro fiber filter papers. The other option is to use normal papers combined with diatomaceous earth.
Vacuum Filtration with a Buchner Funnel
Vacuum filtration is much faster than normal filtration (called gravity filtration). With a vacuum pump attached to the system, the liquid is sucked through the Buchner funnel. What normally would take hours to filter can be done in minutes.
As far as Buchner funnels go, the best type is the polypropylene two piece Buchner funnel. These funnels come apart and are very easy to clean and have a much larger capacity than a normal glazed porcelain Buchner funnel.
The normal glazed porcelain Buchner funnels have better chemical and temperature resistance though. They also cost more and are nearly impossible to clean because they don’t open up.
The other option is a fritted glass Buchner funnel. These have the best chemical resistance, are very pricey, but don’t require filter papers because they have a permanent glass filter built in. If they get clogged, you simply apply pressure instead of vacuum to unclog them. Because of this, they are reusable over and over. It’s similar to a permanent coffee filter, but made of glass. Because you don’t have to buy filter papers over and over, in the long run these can save you money. But they don’t filter out extremely small particles. The filter is usually either fine (about 5 µm), medium (about 10 µm), or coarse (about 50 µm). In comparison, fine filter papers are usually rated at 1 µm (1 micron).
Filtering Out Tannins?
Some plants contain a lot of tannins. Tannins are water soluble and need to be precipitated out before they can be filtered out. One common method is to add milk, egg whites, or gelatin. The proteins in these combine with the tannins and this causes them to be insoluble in water so that they can be filtered out. Before adding one of these, the herb extract should be acidic (about pH 4 is good). This method of precipitating tannins by adding protein is commonly used in wine.
Another method is to add calcium hydroxide (lime). When calcium hydroxide reacts with tannins, the result is calcium tannate. Calcium tannate is insoluble in water and so it can be filtered out. However, calcium hydroxide will make the extract alkaline, and may cause some alkaloids to become insoluble in water as well (harmine for example) and those would also get filtered out. Also it may decompose some alkaloids if too much is used (such as psilocin or bufotenine for example).
Thanks for this!!!
Tried this yesterday, but with some cheap(-ish) Vanilla Cavendish I was able to find locally here in the Baton Rouge at 6:00 on a Saturday evening. I was able to reclaim 45ml of the ~60ml I used because my smallest saucepan was too wide to cover any amount of pipe tobacco with 30ml.
It smelled pretty good after filtering using the cotton/syringe method, but was only getting really faint flavors. Wonder if letting it sit over a few days will improve the flavors. Could be that I'm still fighting a case a vaper's tongue that has been holding on. But I don't vape many tobacco flavors so I'd figure the change would hit much better.
The liquid comes out pretty thick IMO, and I'm thinking about thinning it with PGA since it has been said to act as a flavor enhancer, and possibly to allow me to filter the entire volume again. I have some cheap 80 proof Taaka vodka I use for cleaning attys, would that work or should I get something more potent or different flavor? Also what percentage would be good to add for thinning? 10% by volume is my thought.
Tried this yesterday, but with some cheap(-ish) Vanilla Cavendish I was able to find locally here in the Baton Rouge at 6:00 on a Saturday evening. I was able to reclaim 45ml of the ~60ml I used because my smallest saucepan was too wide to cover any amount of pipe tobacco with 30ml.
It smelled pretty good after filtering using the cotton/syringe method, but was only getting really faint flavors. Wonder if letting it sit over a few days will improve the flavors. Could be that I'm still fighting a case a vaper's tongue that has been holding on. But I don't vape many tobacco flavors so I'd figure the change would hit much better.
The liquid comes out pretty thick IMO, and I'm thinking about thinning it with PGA since it has been said to act as a flavor enhancer, and possibly to allow me to filter the entire volume again. I have some cheap 80 proof Taaka vodka I use for cleaning attys, would that work or should I get something more potent or different flavor? Also what percentage would be good to add for thinning? 10% by volume is my thought.
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I tried this method with tobacco from two organic cigarettes and 35-40 mL of VG. I used a 5.5" diameter stainless steel sauce pan with lid. I also moistened the tobacco with about half teaspoon of water. There was a lot of evaporation going on so I didn't wait until I saw the bubbles coming out of VG. When I added tobacco into hot VG, the tobacco sizzled, it smelled good for like 3 seconds and then the mixture had a slight burnt smell to it. I put the sauce pan back on heat. The tobacco just got darker even before I saw any bubbles coming out. The smell was almost like burnt tobacco. I think VG got too hot. Overall, I think the tobacco got scorched -- it didn't smell and look good anymore. Anyway, I had to dump it.
Did this happen to anyone else? I think the VG gets too hot for tobacco and scorches it. After trying this, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often to others. I don't know what I did "wrong" -- the VG didn't even boil... Somehow did I manage to super heat the VG? I don't know how that would happen though...
Thanks.
Did this happen to anyone else? I think the VG gets too hot for tobacco and scorches it. After trying this, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often to others. I don't know what I did "wrong" -- the VG didn't even boil... Somehow did I manage to super heat the VG? I don't know how that would happen though...
Thanks.
I use the hot VG method. The tobacco smells incredibly AWFUL when it hits the near-boiling VG. The first time, my wife almost puked, and I almost threw it out. But a couple days of sitting at room temp, and it will be wonderful. The pipe and cigar tobaccos both settle down and months later, they still smell smooth and wonderful. They turn out completely different than you would think when the tobacco hits that hot VG!
Thanks for the feedback. Good to know! I got alarmed when for three seconds or so it smelled good, then turned into a scorched and not pleasant smell. I guess I should have kept it. After smelling that, I thought the extraction won't be good.
When you say "The pipe and cigar tobaccos both settle down and months later, they still smell smooth and wonderful", do you mean they keep getting better and smoother?
Thanks.
Yes, I have some pipe tobacco extract that is over 6 months old, and it seems to get smoother and more vanilla-y with time. If you look up Kurt's thread on hot VG pipe tobacco extract, he has some for over a year that is still wonderful and smooth. He wonders if it will ever go bad. Next time, don't throw it out--even after sitting for 24 hours, once it's filtered, you'll be amazed. I just do a simple cotton filter in a syringe, so my extract comes out very black. In that thread, there is also a discussion about whether to use VG or PG, and Kurt has good chemistry reasons for using VG. I dunk the tobacco into the hot VG outside now 
Yes, I have some pipe tobacco extract that is over 6 months old, and it seems to get smoother and more vanilla-y with time. If you look up Kurt's thread on hot VG pipe tobacco extract, he has some for over a year that is still wonderful and smooth. He wonders if it will ever go bad. Next time, don't throw it out--even after sitting for 24 hours, once it's filtered, you'll be amazed. I just do a simple cotton filter in a syringe, so my extract comes out very black. In that thread, there is also a discussion about whether to use VG or PG, and Kurt has good chemistry reasons for using VG. I dunk the tobacco into the hot VG outside now
Thanks again. Yeah, I really panicked and dumped the whole extract into the sink
Thanks for the encouragement. I need to try this again!
I'm curious what you all think about using canning jars and steep/extract under a vacuum? Would the vacuum be beneficial?
Basically treat it like you are going to can it by putting jar with cigar/VG mixture in boiling water for 5-10 min and get a little vacuum.
Thanks for the info Kurt, I can not wait to get some good stoggies to try. I miss a good cigar most of all since I started vaping.
Basically treat it like you are going to can it by putting jar with cigar/VG mixture in boiling water for 5-10 min and get a little vacuum.
Thanks for the info Kurt, I can not wait to get some good stoggies to try. I miss a good cigar most of all since I started vaping.
I agree about not boiling glycerine, and TBH I don't see how that kinda temp (290c
) is even remotely necessary. Arbitrarily picking the boiling point of the medium (VG here) doesn't make any sense... unless it does. Here it doesn't, especially considering nicotine boils at 247c, and you can destroy/damage the freebase nicotine by boiling it. (I would imagine that boiling the VG for a longer period would eliminate a good deal of the more potent nicotine compounds). Of course, this discussion is about making flavors, so maybe that last point is moot; however, I feel that the flavor of the extract will be effected, in a bad way, by mutilating the molecules.I just made some (first attempt at DIY tobacco flavor), using some organic American Spirit shag in pure VG, sealed in small mason jars and steamed for 2 hours (above the water, not in it). I plan to let it sit overnight... or a day or so, not sure. I'm also trying this method out with some other flavorings: star anise (for liquorice flavor), cardamon, and some red tea (rooibos), which I plan to play around with to make some more exotic tobacco flavors. These are all flavors I've had in my hookah molasses before, which are awesome.
I'll update how it all ends up, sometime next week after things mix and sit etc.
extracting some french vanilla tobacco, Boston Cream Pie Tobacco and some peaches and cream tobacco now can't wait to see how this turns out. Great thread BTW. I don't normally come over here but this was a great google find. Thanks yall !!
This is how I did mine:
1. Sterilized Three Balls Mason Jars
2. one oz. tobac to each jar
3. pour in pg to slightly above the tobac
4. put the lids on the jars
5. put a cast iron pan on the stove and placed the jars in the pan
6. add water to pan about half way up the capacity of the pan
7. bring water to a light boil for half an hour (add water as needed)
8. remove jars from pan and let stand for two hours
9. filter and decant
10. crack open a beer and drink, simultaneously mix some juice, vape the very best tobacco I have ever had since I have been vaping (started 2008) also goes well with whiskey
11. enjoy
12. enjoy
1. Sterilized Three Balls Mason Jars
2. one oz. tobac to each jar
3. pour in pg to slightly above the tobac
4. put the lids on the jars
5. put a cast iron pan on the stove and placed the jars in the pan
6. add water to pan about half way up the capacity of the pan
7. bring water to a light boil for half an hour (add water as needed)
8. remove jars from pan and let stand for two hours
9. filter and decant
10. crack open a beer and drink, simultaneously mix some juice, vape the very best tobacco I have ever had since I have been vaping (started 2008) also goes well with whiskey
11. enjoy
12. enjoy
I "think" VG has a boiling point near the 300F range.... not sure about that... Im gonna go google it
I tried Kurt's method last night, same as in the first post. The VG got to about 150C and started giving off vapor that looked like steam, no bubbles like boiling, but 150C isn't far off the flash point so I removed the VG from heat, added tobacco, put back on heat for 30 seconds, saw a couple of bubbles during that 30 seconds period, removed it from heat and covered it. Today I reheated the mix in a hot water bath and filtered it. The color is dark, the flavor is strong. The proof is in the pudding so I'm looking forward to the results of a further 4 weeks steep. There were no harsh or even delightful smells, mostly grassy smells during the quick heat stage. The tobacco is Samuel Gawith Best Brown Flake (straight Va).
I would recommend using a hot plate rather than a gas stove, also the hot VG could burn badly so use this method with care.
I would recommend using a hot plate rather than a gas stove, also the hot VG could burn badly so use this method with care.
Interesting reading here on the hot VG method....
so I thought about it and wondered... what if...
Since I primarily do PGA extractions/reductions, I got to thinking that if I mix the PGA extract into a 1:1 ratio with VG and then pop that mix into the microwave for sevral seconds to heat it to 170-180 and boil off the PGA but leaving the goodness to remain in the VG.
Well, I tried it this morning. I took 30ml of my PGA chocolate Pipe extract and mixed it with 30 ml of VG. Placed the mixture in a clear glass coffie cup ( about 1/4 full) and set the MW for 30 seconds on hi. The microwave took about 11 seconds to heat the mix to boiling point ( PGA) and as soon as it started to bubble I hit the off button to avoid over heating the mix. I did this several times to a point where there was no more bubbling coming from the mixture. Towards the middle of the sessions, the mixture will foam up to about 4 times the original volume, so keep this in mind if you decide to try this.
and.... this method does produce oils to coagulate around the edges of the container just above the fluid surface, very water resistant stuff....
End results were... very warm VG ( 178F) with loads of Ethanol fumes exuding from the MW
retrieved volume from this was 35ml ( 30ml VG, 30 ml PGA, 60 total = 35 30VG/5pga???) so it looks like the MW boiled off 25ml of PGA.
Color remained consistant, no darkening occured.
Flavor became more intense but still the same characteristics as pre MW heating.
Clarity is good, its translucent and vapes fairly clean, may gunk up a coil after several or a dozen dripping sessions...
Taste test ( drip on thumb and lick it) is on par with my other VG extract ( 120F 36 hrs chocolate pipe) not bitter, but definately tobacco.
Vape taste test... mild chocolate hints, heavy on the tobacco, ( the previous VG steep resulted in a nutty flavor) not as nutty,creamy.. but still quite tasty
Soooo... I guess allowing the heat to go above 130F but staying below 200F doesnt alter the flavor characteristics too very much...
but enuf to loose the nutty aspect as compared to the VG warm method ( crockpot 120F)
I do like the clarity factor tho... the end product "just looks cleaner"
so I thought about it and wondered... what if...
Since I primarily do PGA extractions/reductions, I got to thinking that if I mix the PGA extract into a 1:1 ratio with VG and then pop that mix into the microwave for sevral seconds to heat it to 170-180 and boil off the PGA but leaving the goodness to remain in the VG.
Well, I tried it this morning. I took 30ml of my PGA chocolate Pipe extract and mixed it with 30 ml of VG. Placed the mixture in a clear glass coffie cup ( about 1/4 full) and set the MW for 30 seconds on hi. The microwave took about 11 seconds to heat the mix to boiling point ( PGA) and as soon as it started to bubble I hit the off button to avoid over heating the mix. I did this several times to a point where there was no more bubbling coming from the mixture. Towards the middle of the sessions, the mixture will foam up to about 4 times the original volume, so keep this in mind if you decide to try this.
and.... this method does produce oils to coagulate around the edges of the container just above the fluid surface, very water resistant stuff....
End results were... very warm VG ( 178F) with loads of Ethanol fumes exuding from the MW
retrieved volume from this was 35ml ( 30ml VG, 30 ml PGA, 60 total = 35 30VG/5pga???) so it looks like the MW boiled off 25ml of PGA.
Color remained consistant, no darkening occured.
Flavor became more intense but still the same characteristics as pre MW heating.
Clarity is good, its translucent and vapes fairly clean, may gunk up a coil after several or a dozen dripping sessions...
Taste test ( drip on thumb and lick it) is on par with my other VG extract ( 120F 36 hrs chocolate pipe) not bitter, but definately tobacco.
Vape taste test... mild chocolate hints, heavy on the tobacco, ( the previous VG steep resulted in a nutty flavor) not as nutty,creamy.. but still quite tasty
Soooo... I guess allowing the heat to go above 130F but staying below 200F doesnt alter the flavor characteristics too very much...
but enuf to loose the nutty aspect as compared to the VG warm method ( crockpot 120F)
I do like the clarity factor tho... the end product "just looks cleaner"
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Why are none of you guys using screen Printing cloth material.
For filtering ?.
There is something about my NETs that seem to calm me down more than any flavor or nic strength I have smoked.
Need to figure out what those alkaloids are and how to extract them.
Buying is not an option.
Can somebody explain the diff between Tobacco Absolute, NET and WTA.
For filtering ?.
There is something about my NETs that seem to calm me down more than any flavor or nic strength I have smoked.
Need to figure out what those alkaloids are and how to extract them.
Buying is not an option.
Can somebody explain the diff between Tobacco Absolute, NET and WTA.
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