VG Pipe Tobacco Essense

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Kurt

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Its my understanding that the reaction to form acrolein from glycerol requires a catalyst. As yet, no acrolein, even in nano-quantities has been detected in the vapor of a VG-juice. True there are thinners in it, like flavorings and perhaps water, so the BP is significantly less than VGs BP. If you are concerned about acrolein forming from a flash boiling, you could add maybe 5% water to the VG, which will lower the BP a fair amount.

1. That said, acrolein is something I think would be really evident if it had formed. Its a very strong lacrymator (mucus membrane irritant, like tear-gas), and it takes VERY little to produce a strong nasal and eye reaction. Yes, it is toxic, but we would reject it, and in a rather unpleasant way. I certainly have not experienced anything like that with my PTE, let along my other VG juices.

2. My pipe tobacco that I used was moist, thus adding some water to the mix.

3. Water will do a couple of things. One, it will lower the BP. Two, the reaction to form acrolein is a glycerol dehydration. Water is the other product that is formed if acrolein forms. Thus adding a little water pushes the equilibrium to the glycerol side, inhibiting the dehydration. You must remove the water entirely before dehydration will be thermodynamically favored. Plus, the kinetics are such that it seems to need a catalyst. All the papers I have seen about acrolein from glycerol include a catalyst. Tungsten oxide is one that is used. I use a non-stick pan for PTE.

I have not seen that pure VG is actually 10% water. It evidently does not form an azeotrope with water that I can find. OTOH, ethanol-water forms a 5% water azeotrope, and thus ethanol cannot be distilled to higher than 95% from water. Seems reasonable glycerol would too, but maybe not. I have seen that crude glycerol is 10% water, but not pure. That said, adding a little water to the VG will lower its BP and shift equilibrium away from acrolein, but I do not think the stove-top conditions would at all promote acrolein production, regardless. Just heating will not do it, in general. But again, a little added water will remove any uncertainty you may have, and still work great. Not something I am concerned about, but it's not a bad idea.
 

Cyrus Vap

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excellent explanation Kurt, I thank you :)

do you happen to know what temperature our atomizers get to under ordinary circumstances? I've been assuming a high VG juice would require the atty to get to 280ish for vaporization, but given that the other elements in the mix actually depress the boiling point as you pointed out above, I'm wondering if its actually far less than that

and if the kinetics are that poor and require a catalyst, I suppose the acrolein issue is a non issue and it doesn't really matter anyway, just curious
 

Kurt

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Here is a good page I just found:

Glycerol (data page) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If I have a VG-water solution that is 20% by mass water (about the formulation I use), one can calculate the mole% of water as:

Assume 100 g of solution, therefore 20.0 g water, 80.0 g glycerol.

20.0 g *(1 mol/18.0g) = 1.11 mole water

80.0 g *(1 mol/92.0g) = 0.87 mole glycerol

total moles = 1.11 + 0.87 = 1.98

mole% water = moles water/total moles*100 = 1.11/1.98*100 = 56.1 mole%

From the table for distillation data, this VG-water composition will boil at 121C, and have a vapor content of 99.84% water. Thus for this solution, the coil will probably be just a touch higher, maybe 130-140C, which is about what I recall reading for most e-liquids a couple years ago. The coil temp is greatly limited by the temp of the liquid, which will not go above the boiling point.

A VG liquid with 10% by mass water will be about 36 mole% water, and a BP of about 140C.
 

J**2

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Gave this another go, my aromatic tobacco turned out alright (might need to mix it stronger flavor wise). The English I cooked up was awesome, and came through so clearly that I had to remind myself it was mixed at around 10% and it was vapor. Good stuff here.

Which English blend did you use ??


GGTS, Provari , Reonaut, DIY wannabe chef
 

TommyG

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I need to ask the local shop, I know the arromatic was Lane tobacco BCA/RLP6 mixed 50/50. The English was pretty intense, I haven't smoked a pipe in a while, but I swear I felt like I was cheating with that stuff. I'll get back to you on the blend on that.

Edit:
McClelland Dark English
 
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Cyrus Vap

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This can be very intense. The one pipe extract I made a while back (slightly different method from Kurt's OP) is delicious and aromatic, but its almost too much. The smoke notes are overwhelming, like I'm really smoking a pipe. And I guess I may not like that anymore...at least as an all day vape.
 

ToweKnee

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I am seriously looking to do this with a cigar I use to enjoy very much. Is there anything different I should do when doing this with a cigar? Since the leaf and the wrapping isn't as moist as pipe tobacco should I try to add a little water or straight VG ? Just wanted to hear any opinions before I do this. This is a great thread too!

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ToweKnee

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I'd give the cigar tobacco a little soak in some water, to get it moist not dripping wet, and follow the OPs technique and you should be pleasantly surprised, I know I was.

Edit:
Make sure to use distilled water, not tap, for the whetting.

yea I was going to first spray it really good with a water spray bottle while mixing the tobacco first. Get it really nice and moist then start the process. Will post some results of this one. I am going use a Acid blondie cigar for this one.
 

Cyrus Vap

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From what I remember when I was into it, its a very low Tar tobacco that's dipped in molasses and flavorings. Don't know much else about the actual quality of the tobacco or additives. Try it on a heating element that's replace-able or not important to you first just in case you get a bunch of residual sugars! And let us know, I have a bunch of hookah tobacco lying around.
 
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