whats so great about provari?

[SPACKlick]

We're all just imagining it then?
Nah.

Well, how about this, Adding a couple of drips of food dye into wine made expert wine tasters unable to distinguish white and red wine. They are experts in detecting subtle differences in flavour but a small amount of messing with expectations knocked them all off. So it couldn't possibly be a combination of

1) Expectation bias, everyone says it's smoother because of the higher rate PWM so it's smoother and that's because of the higher rate PWM.
2) The other factors in the design which make the vape smoother, reinforce this position due to confirmation bias.
Until I see data, even just calculation, that indicates any significant level of temperature change in the coil over a 0.03 second cycle, I have to assume the noticed difference is caused by either something ELSE about the provari OR psychological expectation OR a combination of both.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I was not a fan of Provari's for the very reason that something about the Provarinati just was unsettling to me. I had a bias against the Provari to be honest, and you can see my early posts about this from a year ago if you like. That said, I own three Provari's today, after trying more than 30 other APV's and mechs. Today I use the Provari, Semovar and GG. That's it. I will buy a DNA 30/100 in 26650 tube when it becomes available, otherwise, meh.....I have what works best. When I first used the Provari, I was not expecting the superior vape that it provides. So smooth, perfect. I was surprised. I'm not a Provarinati....God bless 'em! I do use my Provari's every day with my RTA's. Once you get into the high-end gear, you change directions. For me, hardware was not a pursuit any longer, I had the best, imho. I chose to pursue building my own coils and new toppers. That improved my vape more than any battery did, regulated or not. When you "master" the coil and wick build in the topper of your choice and add the Provari, or similar, you enter a new vaping zone that is hard for me to describe. I don't know why the Provari is so much better than my MVP2, but it is, and it's not bias. I was totally prepared to reject the Provari, and can afford to do so, but it didn't work out that way. I bought the Semo so I could have VW in a high-end device and do use it all the time. It's neither better, nor worse that the Provari to me. I'm in good shape with vaping hardware, that's for sure. There is certainly no China APV out there that compares. I have them all, perhaps no some of the most new ones, as I stopped buying them about six months ago, but I pretty much bought everything out there up till then. Not that I don't believe you guys, I do, but I have to experience things for myself. Once you get to the Provari level, you get to stop chasing batteries and start chasing better toppers, different vapes, etc. I wish I had gone Provari the first month, would have improved my vape at least six months faster than how it turned out. My two cents. YMMV. Just sayin'.....Power up and Vape On!

 

[EddardinWinter]

I was not a fan of Provari's for the very reason that something about the Provarinati just was unsettling to me. I had a bias against the Provari to be honest, and you can see my early posts about this from a year ago if you like. That said, I own three Provari's today, after trying more than 30 other APV's and mechs. Today I use the Provari, Semovar and GG. That's it. I will buy a DNA 30/100 in 26650 tube when it becomes available, otherwise, meh.....I have what works best. When I first used the Provari, I was not expecting the superior vape that it provides. So smooth, perfect. I was surprised. I'm not a Provarinati....God bless 'em! I do use my Provari's every day with my RTA's. Once you get into the high-end gear, you change directions. For me, hardware was not a pursuit any longer, I had the best, imho. I chose to pursue building my own coils and new toppers. That improved my vape more than any battery did, regulated or not. When you "master" the coil and wick build in the topper of your choice and add the Provari, or similar, you enter a new vaping zone that is hard for me to describe. I don't know why the Provari is so much better than my MVP2, but it is, and it's not bias. I was totally prepared to reject the Provari, and can afford to do so, but it didn't work out that way. I bought the Semo so I could have VW in a high-end device and do use it all the time. It's neither better, nor worse that the Provari to me. I'm in good shape with vaping hardware, that's for sure. There is certainly no China APV out there that compares. I have them all, perhaps no some of the most new ones, as I stopped buying them about six months ago, but I pretty much bought everything out there up till then. Not that I don't believe you guys, I do, but I have to experience things for myself. Once you get to the Provari level, you get to stop chasing batteries and start chasing better toppers, different vapes, etc. I wish I had gone Provari the first month, would have improved my vape at least six months faster than how it turned out. My two cents. YMMV. Just sayin'.....Power up and Vape On!

Well the ProVarinati are supposed to be unsettling. But I hope once you get to know us, you can see we are just a bunch of folks that like to have fun. In any case, nothing wrong with remaining an independent spirit, Bill. Of course, joining the ProVarinati requires absolutely no compromise of the unique individual properties that defines each of us as humans...or I wouldn't be one. But if you prefer not to be one, don't.

Many of my friends on ECF are not ProVarintati, and many of them use different devices, use juices unlike mine, think differently, and disagree with many of my extremist views. Vape on, Bill!

 

[AnsonJames]

Well, how about this, Adding a couple of drips of food dye into wine made expert wine tasters unable to distinguish white and red wine.

Interesting!
Still nah.

 

[Dampmaskin]

i once thought $200 was alot of money for a device. But that was because i had never held one, let alone vaped from one.

... or bought a DVD player, or a mobile phone. Or a set of quality ear phones. Or a nice leather jacket. Or any kind of fishing- tenting- or hunting gear, or a cheap bicycle. Or about 15 pints of good quality beer at a Norwegian pub.

 

[SPACKlick]

Or about 15 pints of good quality beer at a Norwegian pub.

15? You're drinking somewhere cheap in Norway!

 

[p.opus]

I was not a fan of Provari's for the very reason that something about the Provarinati just was unsettling to me. I had a bias against the Provari to be honest, and you can see my early posts about this from a year ago if you like. That said, I own three Provari's today, after trying more than 30 other APV's and mechs. Today I use the Provari, Semovar and GG. That's it. I will buy a DNA 30/100 in 26650 tube when it becomes available, otherwise, meh.....I have what works best. When I first used the Provari, I was not expecting the superior vape that it provides. So smooth, perfect. I was surprised. I'm not a Provarinati....God bless 'em! I do use my Provari's every day with my RTA's. Once you get into the high-end gear, you change directions. For me, hardware was not a pursuit any longer, I had the best, imho. I chose to pursue building my own coils and new toppers. That improved my vape more than any battery did, regulated or not. When you "master" the coil and wick build in the topper of your choice and add the Provari, or similar, you enter a new vaping zone that is hard for me to describe. I don't know why the Provari is so much better than my MVP2, but it is, and it's not bias. I was totally prepared to reject the Provari, and can afford to do so, but it didn't work out that way. I bought the Semo so I could have VW in a high-end device and do use it all the time. It's neither better, nor worse that the Provari to me. I'm in good shape with vaping hardware, that's for sure. There is certainly no China APV out there that compares. I have them all, perhaps no some of the most new ones, as I stopped buying them about six months ago, but I pretty much bought everything out there up till then. Not that I don't believe you guys, I do, but I have to experience things for myself. Once you get to the Provari level, you get to stop chasing batteries and start chasing better toppers, different vapes, etc. I wish I had gone Provari the first month, would have improved my vape at least six months faster than how it turned out. My two cents. YMMV. Just sayin'.....Power up and Vape On!

I agree with you on toppers. My Kayfun blows anything else I've tried out of the water. I'm not sure if I can get any better by dripping or not. Maybe a bit better vape, but the kayfun is so convenient.

I have a ProVari and I admit it is a superior vape experience. But my point is that it is superior due to a number of things.

Fit, finish, balance, ergonomics, consistency. All of these things make the ProVari a superior vape experience, even to my MVP's. But on taste and taste alone, I doubt I could discern a difference.

But that's me....

 

[Train2]

Problem with expectation bias theory. I EXPECTED the claims of a superior vape to be hogwash, and bought a ProVari for other reasons.
I was suprised.

I don't have an MVP, though I'd kinda like one.

But I was vaping a VAMO and an SVD and there is NO QUESTION that with the same topper, the ProVari provides a better vape. It "feels" like it's faster and smoother delivery of power. If it's not the PWM, then I don't know (or care) what it is. But it's noticeable.

 

[PLANofMAN]

I agree with you on toppers. My Kayfun blows anything else I've tried out of the water. I'm not sure if I can get any better by dripping or not. Maybe a bit better vape, but the kayfun is so convenient.

I have a ProVari and I admit it is a superior vape experience. But my point is that it is superior due to a number of things.

Fit, finish, balance, ergonomics, consistency. All of these things make the ProVari a superior vape experience, even to my MVP's. But on taste and taste alone, I doubt I could discern a difference.

But that's me....

If you want to try dripping just put a wide bore 510 drip tip on your Kayfun and drip. Nothing's stopping you.

 

[EddardinWinter]

If you want to try dripping just put a wide bore 510 drip tip on your Kayfun and drip. Nothing's stopping you.

Sure, it always starts that way...but before you know it...It has you, just like the Matrix.

Now...I drip as much as I KFL. Its a habit forming thing...but wonderful.

Drip, drip, drip.

 

[BadTrainDriver]

The Black and Red hybrid Provari awaits me at the post office!

Can I put a kick in it or would that be overkill?

Do not put a kick in it.

 

[Coelli]

I was chasing the dripper dragon until I found the eBaron Dripper Pro from By Leo. I bought another one, let my boyfriend try it, and it never left his Provari. So I was compelled to get a third. All of our other drippers have been abandoned. I love the fact that the coil is centered directly under the drip tip; it's just really well designed.

 

[p.opus]

Sure, it always starts that way...but before you know it...It has you, just like the Matrix.

Now...I drip as much as I KFL. Its a habit forming thing...but wonderful.

Drip, drip, drip.

Sounds like you may want to see a doctor about that....I'm just sayin....

 

[EddardinWinter]

I was chasing the dripper dragon until I found the eBaron Dripper Pro from By Leo. I bought another one, let my boyfriend try it, and it never left his Provari. So I was compelled to get a third. All of our other drippers have been abandoned. I love the fact that the coil is centered directly under the drip tip; it's just really well designed.

A great dripper, the best of the single coils I have seen in both form and function.

But I am a dual coil guy. I know, I know, "But lion, you can dual up a Dripper Pro!". Yeah, you can do it. But my Helios is much easier to mount FOUR coils into than squeezing two into the Dripper Pro. It is a sharp looking dripper, though...

 

[p.opus]

Some DIY'er must have nearly killed himself or someone else. Now we get to see DIY precautions on every page.

EDIT: Wow!!!! you can close it...I feel like a noob....

 

[CommaHolly]

Some DIY'er must have nearly killed himself or someone else. Now we get to see DIY precautions on every page.

EDIT: Wow!!!! you can close it...I feel like a noob....

I noticed that too,,,,,,

and I didn't know you could close it either, so don't feel bad

 

[CommaHolly]

I don't notice a huge difference between my MVP2 and my Provari taste wise,,,,,

what I DO notice is the Provari NEVER MISFIRES on me,,,,,,

my MVP2,,,,all the time. sigh.

 

[Coelli]

A great dripper, the best of the single coils I have seen in both form and function.

But I am a dual coil guy. I know, I know, "But lion, you can dual up a Dripper Pro!". Yeah, you can do it. But my Helios is much easier to mount FOUR coils into than squeezing two into the Dripper Pro. It is a sharp looking dripper, though...

You're right, I definitely would not want to do a dual coil build in the Dripper Pro even if you can. I used to build dual coils in my drippers just because I could (and it seemed like such a waste to only build one coil on such big platforms), but found I preferred the vape from a single coil in a smaller chamber. Then I found the Dripper Pro and it was all over. There's a LOT to be said for finding the setup that works for you. So this doesn't keep straying completely off topic I'll just say that once I found the Provari, I could stop chasing that particular dragon and spend my time and energy on toppers instead.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Well, how about this, Adding a couple of drips of food dye into wine made expert wine tasters unable to distinguish white and red wine. They are experts in detecting subtle differences in flavour but a small amount of messing with expectations knocked them all off. So it couldn't possibly be a combination of

1) Expectation bias, everyone says it's smoother because of the higher rate PWM so it's smoother and that's because of the higher rate PWM.
2) The other factors in the design which make the vape smoother, reinforce this position due to confirmation bias.
Until I see data, even just calculation, that indicates any significant level of temperature change in the coil over a 0.03 second cycle, I have to assume the noticed difference is caused by either something ELSE about the provari OR psychological expectation OR a combination of both.

Here's your data:

I've been following along for a little while and since things have calmed down a bit (and I was reminded of this thread in another thread), I'll weigh in from an un-bias (I dont own a mainstream VV/WW mod) and scientific view.

There is good relevance to the frequency argument. The word that you all are missing is Joule. It is a measurement of heat defined as:

1 watt x 1 second = 1 joule(J)

First the VAMO (or any other 33Hz mod)
Assumptions:
Set at 4.2V_RMS (50% duty cycle)
2.0Ω Coil

Calculations:
1 second / 33Hz = .030 = 30 milliseconds(ms) cycle time

30ms * 50% duty cycle = 15ms pulse duration

We know the the VAMO fires at 6V during the on time.
(Ohms Law: W=V² / R)

6*6 / 2 = 18w

Now that we have the duration and the power, we can calculate the joules.

18w * 15ms = 270 millijoules(mJ) per pulse.

Provari (or any other DC output)
The Provari's frequency is irrelevant. It's a flat DC voltage with a little bit of ripple to it. We don't have to figure out the pulse time because realistically, there is no pulse. So all we have to do is figure out the output in joules for the same duration and compare it to the VAMO.

Same assumptions:
4.2v and 2.0Ω coil.

(Ohms Law: W=V² / R)
4.2*4.2 / 2 = 8.82

8.82W * 15ms = 132mJ

So we end up with 270mJ per pulse compared to 132mJ over the same duration. If we look at the heat output over the period of a full second they are relatively equal, 9.0J compared to 8.82J (the error is due to 4.2V_RMS not being exactly 50% duty cycle). However, burnt juice, even if only 15ms at a time, is still burnt juice.

By increasing the frequency of a pulsed output device, you are shortening the pulse duration and thus lowering the joules per pulse. You will never get equalization compared to a DC output, but eventually the frequency will be high enough, and the joules per pulse low enough, that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Another interesting note is that as the duty cycle increases (higher voltage/longer pulse duration) the difference in joules between the two devices will decrease. Meaning, by setting both devices at 5.0v the difference in the heat output will be less than if set on 4.2V.

 

[p.opus]

Here's your data:

Good stuff. It also makes sense why the closer to 6 volts, the devices will converge because you are approaching 100% duty cycle.

That also explains why people state that stacked 18350's taste harsher than single batteries. Because the base voltage is higher but the duty cycle is lower.