When should I be in panic mode?

[Kurt]

is the ultra-pure another "off the menu" variety? so if they ever re-supply, do you just specify which you want in the comments?

Yes, when ordering DIY nic, just ask in the comments for Ultra-pure or Ice (they are very similar in tastelessnes). I believe the price is still the same as regular, which may have been a promotional price, given that these probably go through purification processes beyond regular nic. That was the price before the move, anyway. I got some of each as samples in my recent order of 100 mg VG regular, and I have been using them exclusively for flavored DIY juices.

 

[Nickel City Nomad]

Unflavoured base will last 2 years plus in a cool dark place with low humidity (in a glass bottle ideally). PG will probably last longer than VG because PG is bactericidal but VG is only bacteriostatic, and in some circumstances it will support bacterial growth (like in condensation in the headspace).

Freezing it will probably make both PG and VG last 10 years plus, that is the best guess we have just now. Neither will freeze at -18C, the usual temperature of a domestic freezer. My VG nic base is a stiff jelly at -21C, PG doesn't freeze at all. Nevertheless the temp is low enough that changes should not occur. The unknown in this is if nicotine loses its potency over a decade when nearly frozen, we don't know that yet. Probably not but we don't know.

I called a supplier and asked them the shelf life of pg nicquid. They told me that the tested some 100mg after storing for two years in the freezer, and it was close to spot on.

 

[Koman]

Yes, when ordering DIY nic, just ask in the comments for Ultra-pure or Ice (they are very similar in tastelessnes). I believe the price is still the same as regular, which may have been a promotional price, given that these probably go through purification processes beyond regular nic. That was the price before the move, anyway. I got some of each as samples in my recent order of 100 mg VG regular, and I have been using them exclusively for flavored DIY juices.

Always wanted to get me some of that ultra-pure!

 

[Petrodus]

Always wanted to get me some of that ultra-pure!

I suggest soon ... many will have it on their want list ...
Hopefully, it won't be on the FDA's "hit-list" !!

 

[Kurt]

I called a supplier and asked them the shelf life of pg nicquid. They told me that the tested some 100mg after storing for two years in the freezer, and it was close to spot on.

For very pure nic, like this is, most likely yes, at least 2 years, probably much more. For lower purity PG-nic can go yellow-orange, and take on a somewhat tobacco-like taste within a year. VG-nic, regardless of quality, seems to remain unchanged for >3 years (longest I have monitored it), and given its glue-like viscosity in the freezer, I expect indefinite storage time.

 

[Lilkurty]

All the players are scared, having a snit fit or are mad as hell, or any combination thereof.

The FDA is scared e cigs will take over and jeopardize their money from Pharma and at the same time mad cause we beat them in court when they started grabbing e cigs at the ports.

Tobacco isn't all that scared, they have seen the writing on the wall and are moving into e cigs and other smokeless products, but they would love the FDA to give them the smokeless and e cig business by regulating all the vendors to the point where they cannot afford the fees and costs to comply with stern regulations.

Pharma is both scared e cigs will make their precious, ineffective and horribly expensive NRT's die on the vine, mad because we keep telling everyone just how ineffective they are, and scared again to lose all the money from smokers diseases medicines down the road. Smokers who quit smoking and take up the e cig cost them on both ends of the equation, and have the gall to tell the world NRT's suck.

Government is scared, both Fed and State, of losing the taxes and the payouts from the Tobacco Master Settlement. People who can quit cost them big bucks, and with e cigs the smoke, NRT, relapse, resume smoking cycle is broken. We like our e cigs and they satisfy us.

The alphabet soup agencies are scared they are going to all get laid off if we win, because pharma won't need them as front men any longer and quit funding them, and mad because we won't fold our hands and OBEY their pronouncements which are both bogus and shameful. Those people lie like rugs and look you straight in the face while doing it.

Vapers are mad as hell at what is going on and has gone on with all of the above, and scared that we might be deprived of our lifesaving smokeless products.

Incredibly well said Fiamma.
Although while BT may not be all that scared I am pretty confident that they are super mad and resentful. I was reading this big fancy expensive proposal to Australia where they sure were counting on the e cig industry to be in the medical class and therefore not in competition with them.

http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/internet/preventativehealth/publishing.nsf/Content/submissions-public-cnt-op/$File/D270-2008.pdf

 

[DrMA]

There's a fine line between freaking out and taking preemptive steps to address a believable upcoming problem. This may include signing petitions, and generally being vocal about upcoming regulations, but also taking measures to protect yourself in (the otherwise very likely) case BP and BT get their cronies at FDA to pass some nonsense measures that restrict your access to vaping

I don't think vaping will be pushed under ground. However, from an abundance of caution, I stocked up on about 2 years worth of DIY ejuice supplies. I think of it as "insurance". I also use Genisis style RBAs and generic LiPos for my mods - stainless mesh and Kanthal wire should be relatively safe from Big Brother interference...

 

[jlew]

I have officially reached Panic Mode

I have stocked up for at least enough for a year supply...

I saw Wizard was out of stock for a time because of moving and such a large backlog but I spoke with
them the other day and they said it shouldn't be much longer at all.

I ordered from EcigExpresss and got a really good 100mg Nicotine in 100%VG (for both quantity and storage
purposes)...
I have heard about Nic being an off color but ECX's Nic is absolutely crystal clear in the VG and odorless,
nearly tasteless (a hint of sweet because of the VG is my guess).

They have unusual sizing but they say it is because of mixing ability -- They have 115ml and 215ml sizes
(which I ordered) and I thought it was an odd sizing but they said it was so they could be mixed (shaken)
easier.

Not too bad of pricing - I mean I could have waited for RTS or Wizard but since no one knows what or when
anything might come of the FDA crap... I decided to go ahead and get it now while I could.

The nicotine was only off by -5mg to -7mg -- I am not exactly certain because it was the first time I tested
anything like that and it is said that there is a +/- 5mg Margin of Error plus any human error that can be added.
I tested it the first time and it was a bit cold so it may not have mixed right...
The second time I tested, I got a closer, more accurate reading of 93.5mg/ml

I am not going to argue about that small amount but if it had been 10mg or more, I would have pitched
fits.

I did alert them however and they said it may have been due to who ever mixed it may have not allowed
it to reach an appropriate temperature and that they would make sure from now on, it was mixed more
accurately... they thanked me for the calling in and said they wished more people would do that so they
could improve where need be.

I still plan on getting more soon... I need some other things besides vape stock and I also need more testing
supplies.

@ Kurt -- Thanks for the info on storage and shelf life. I have not been able to find out much about that
and was wondering if the VG could be put in a freezer.

So... in any event... I am taking precautions that could last me a couple years in case... I figure if anything
happens, it might take a year or two to get back on track...

I still see Vaping being totally within our grasp one day because I don't see those who know the truth bowing
down to the mud slingers.

 

[tejas454]

I remember seeing a couple of comments from people who were planning to wean down, but now I don't remember where. I've slept since then

I started at 36mg about a year ago, and recently decided to begin weaning down. I am at 12 now in just a few months. I have 60ml of 12 and next order will be 6 or 8 mg. Not sure what will happen when I get to zero. Maybe Ill quit vaping.

 

[tejas454]

Could you make your own nicotine say from a tabacco plant? For personal consumption only of course.

 

[Pur3Rush]

DIY NiC Extraction?? Yeah I don't think so.

 

[Koman]

There's a fine line between freaking out and taking preemptive steps to address a believable upcoming problem. This may include signing petitions, and generally being vocal about upcoming regulations, but also taking measures to protect yourself in (the otherwise very likely) case BP and BT get their cronies at FDA to pass some nonsense measures that restrict your access to vaping

I don't think vaping will be pushed under ground. However, from an abundance of caution, I stocked up on about 2 years worth of DIY ejuice supplies. I think of it as "insurance". I also use Genisis style RBAs and generic LiPos for my mods - stainless mesh and Kanthal wire should be relatively safe from Big Brother interference...

Good point!

 

[skinkx]

Have you noticed how much certain projectiles have gone up in price lately?

 

[renderwerks]

Could you make your own nicotine say from a tabacco plant? For personal consumption only of course.

It can be done, but DON'T. Raw, pure nicotine is very dangerous. A lethal dose is 60mg. Think about that amount... just 60mg. If you vape 24mg, just 3ml all at once (24mg x 3ml=72mg) is enough to kill you. Nicotine poisioning is one of the most horrifying, painful ways to go. Most people wouldn't wish it on an enemy.

That being said, the following is for idle information only.

There are restrictions on growing tobacco. I don't know the specifics, but you can only grow a small amount, and I believe only certain varieties.

Using tobacco and other ingredients, one can make a "soup", and grow nicotine crystals in the liquid. It's much more complex than that, but I'm a senior mechanical designer working in the cryogenic distillation field, and I asked our lead chemical scientist if you could "make" your own nicotine for suspension in PG or VG. He warned me about how dangerous it is, and said yes - it takes a handful of steps, some common chemicals, and a polar solvent. You end up with what looks like yellow rock candy. The crystals are highly concentrated nicotine. Far too dangerous to handle without proper equipment and the guidance of an expert.

While on the subject, this is a good time to remind everyone that does DIY to remember to be extra cautious when dealing with concentrated unflavored nic liquid. At concentrations at or above 60mg/ml, it takes less than a single eyedropper full to hold a lethal dose. Wear latex or nitrile gloves, protect any exposed skin, wear eye protection and be able to DRENCH yourself with water immediately if need be.

We all need to be aware of what we have in our possession, and to treat it with the respect it demands.

 

[jrt_]

I have friends stockpiling DIY supplies and nicotine juice.

At this point, should I be freaking out? My tendency is to freak out in these situations.

When should I start hoarding and stockpiling? Now?

in my opinion the only thing you'd really need to stockpile is nicotine liquid...maybe some good RBA's, but I doubt they're going to do anything other than regulating eliquid, if that...but that's nothing other than my personal opinion

 

[Vaptor]

Just stock up juice for a year or two while rotating new ones. It's pointless to stock up for any longer since you'll never be able to stock up for a life time. That will give you time to find alternatives in case of some ban. And don't say you'll stop vaping if it's banned because you won't. You'll never give up your pleasures and in desperation you'll start smoking again.

 

[JJOOHHNN]

Will this become like prohibition or will it go underground like drug dealing.

 

[aikanae1]

Will this become like prohibition or will it go underground like drug dealing.

I don't think it can go "underground". E-juice is too hard to manufacture and the black market is too risky / expensive. Taxes would be cheaper than a black market.

You also have to remember what the demographics are of those vaping. They are not fearless 20 year olds embarking on a road to suicide. Instead, they are mom's and pop's and grannies with an interest in their future. I'm stunned by the number of comments (in the forums) on how many don't even drink alchohol. For some reason, I doubt more than a few would meet someone on a corner to buy nic juice of unknown quality or nic level. I think you could say that 100% of e-cig users do so for their health.

I also realize that cutting of internet sales is fairly easy to accomplish without legislation. Just cut off payment processing which Paypal and Visa have been happy to do in the past to 'politically unpopular' products. Visa can also deliver statements directly to state government for tax information - which could be coming anyway for all online sales. This is why cigarettes can't be bought online. At one time they could be. I used to order out of eastern europe and from US indian reservations. That's a road block that's nearly impossible to get around.

My personal expectation is that products may become limited. There's a faction that claims even menthol is addictive and has wanted to eliminate that in cigarettes. So retail flavored juices may become limited as well as nic levels. Bulk nic juice might be highly restricted. Pretty much everything else will get taxes, reguire licenses and procedures for new products may be so onerous that it's nearly impossible to evolve or develop. So I expect prices to go up on 'legal' products.

Nobody wants to see e-cig users save money by vaping.

The reality is that a simple mod can be made from your local Radio Shack and people will keep designing them. Your mad vapor may require a new soldering iron to their equipment stash or pieces will be sold for "other reasons". 3D printing also has promise.

It will be interesting to discover what they "deem" to control.

 

[Myrany]

I bought a air big bottle of the nic. Now I am trying to decide what to do about the hardware.

I am thinking pick up something like a vamo since the batteries for it can't easily be banned.

I have a protank and some CE5s so I am picking up heads for those and think I can manage to recoil/rewick those.

I really dont want to mess with SS mesh so can someone suggest a true rebuildable that I won't need to mess with mesh for?

 

[Fiamma]

I bought a air big bottle of the nic. Now I am trying to decide what to do about the hardware.

I am thinking pick up something like a vamo since the batteries for it can't easily be banned.

I have a protank and some CE5s so I am picking up heads for those and think I can manage to recoil/rewick those.

I really dont want to mess with SS mesh so can someone suggest a true rebuildable that I won't need to mess with mesh for?

I started buying mechanical mods some months back. Mechanical mods do not have wires to burn up or circuit boards to go south like Zmax, Provari, Vamo, et al. I wanted stuff that just needed a battery and a simple push switch to work, lessening the things that could make the device inoperable. Just a hedge against the worst that could befall us. The batteries for mechanicals are going to be there.

A7 is a nice rebuildable that uses wick and wire, also the 'octopus' the IGO L, the Phoenix, there are a number of rebuildable atomizers that use wick and wire and do not require the use of mesh. I bought a number of A7's and IGO L's and AGA T2's which can also be used with wick and wire (or mesh). I also laid in a considerable supply of XL cartos for my carto tanks as well as my favorite 901p atomizers. I have nic in the freezer. I spent time learning to DIY my juice. I've done as much as I can to hedge against the worst they can do, what I have on hand should last quite some time, but not forever. I also worked my nic level down to 4mg which should greatly extend the quantity of juice I can make with the nic I have. I considered these things prudent, not just a panic reaction to the constant barrage by the ANTZ and other parties against our alternative to smoking cancer sticks.

Whatever your solution for yourself, do not forget to fight for your right to have an alternative to smoking. Get active in CASAA and your locality, support CASAA and the ECF, bend the ear of your elected officials, look for people whom you can support in opposition to the current band of fools in government. We elected these clowns that are trying to force us back to smoking for their own purposes, some of which include campaign contributions, paid for junkets, and help in promoting their own pet projects, not to mention the tax revenues the governments, federal and state are losing as more and more of us make the switch from killing ourselves to our chosen alternative.