Why Do People Knowingly Buy Clones?

[Rossum]

Although they sometimes make junk, I don't think anyone really believes the Chinese aren't capable of making decent quality products at reasonable prices if/when they want to.

What people (at least some of us) object to is the blatant copying of someone else's design, and even more so, the misrepresentation of who made it (by using the the original maker's logo) or where it was made (by marking the product itself or the packing "Made in [wherever]" when it clearly wasn't). The latter are dishonest business practices, and I do not understand why people are willing to support businesses that engage in them.

 

[erictho]

this thread and a large part of this discussion is really disappointing.
i've obviously been a member of this forum for a while, but i don't spend time on here like i used to. i've found myself in a pretty comfortable spot for the most part. i've found what works for me and i'm pretty uninterested in the current vaping trends. what works for me are my super t mechs and a smoktech carto tank. the only reason why i still sometimes visit this forum is to check out the super t supplier forum to see what new creations are being pumped out.
currently i visit the forum at least once daily. occasionally i branch out and check up on other forums and threads, today being one of those days. the reason for this change was an email from super t announcing their retirement from the e-cig business (with the exception of the lifetime warranty of their products). the company is a metal manufacturing business and vaporizers are not their only method of income. the popularity of clones and their saturation of the market meant that participating in the vaping industry was no longer profitable for them. the amount of money that they made off of manufacturing vaporizers was only enough to keep the materials coming and the small staff team paid.
they did a lot to bring the vaping community to where it is today. go look at threads that reminisce about what vaping used to be like, which is in the general vaping discussion forum. i've tried many different electrical and mechanical pvs and they can't hold a candle to the quality and reliability of my super t pieces. i've had esteemed pv's that just eventually crap out, unrelated to my use of them. i've also placed a couple fasttech orders. in the end it is not worth it. it's a less enjoyable experience overall and the result is always a need to pay for something else.
very quickly i decided it's worth it to buy an authentic device. one $200 pv is better than always having to replace a $12-20 pv. the way that vaping trends are going with sub ohm-ing and whatever else is that even safe?
you guys can short your vaping experience by not bothering to support the people who are innovative and working hard to bring quality products to you. all you'll be left with are a bunch of broken devices anyways. i'm just glad i see the value in paying a bit more (and in the long run saving money) for a product i will have for years. it'll still work great years later too.
these companies that are making clones don't really care about the user's experience and they don't care about making a quality product that will last. all they are interested in is making more money from an enthusiastic customer base. so what i think is relevant to this conversation is where do people want the future of vaping to go? companies that manufacture clones aren't the robin hoods some people seem to think they are.

 

[DaveSignal]

What about cigreen, ehpro, wotofo a-mod, Sigelei, etc.... Do you think these companies don't care about the vaping experience? I think manufacturers like these represent a great affordable future for Vapers, regardless of whether or not their clones make it hard for less efficient manufacturers to compete.

 

[JayWer]

For me it depends on the device. If its like a mech mod I dont see any reason to charge $150+ for a gutted flash light with a fancy beveled design carved into it that a votech student can make you if you pass him a 20 dollar bill. Its not practical to me at all and rather than reducing the cost of newer mech mods after establishing a good foot print in the industry and its market, since people are willing to pay top dollar, they are getting more expensive in some cases. The same with some tried and true RDA's and the like with more simple and modest designs. When you get into some protected devices that require more quality control I'm up on the fence. Some can be good and some can be bad. Cloupor for example, just when you thought they were on a roll after the third release of the Cana box a lack in qc is causing a world of hurt for people buying the new minis. One can argue that they have a v2 or even a v1 with no issues but thats where the quality control comes in and its inconstancy thereof. I felt that lack in QC myself when I bought my V2. Everything that could go wrong with it did. Finally I had it replaced free of charge with a V3 and where the chips issues were fixed and the 510 issue was fixed it had the same internal QC issues as the V2, poor soldering. That led to the USB port to fail which was the exact reason I returned my V2, failed joints at the charging point. But when you see a good clone for less than half the price of the original with no issues at all it makes you think, are they really rolling you over because they know you are willing to pay top dollar?


That being said, I'll buy a clone, but it depends on how practical it is to buy top dollar for the original after doing some simple research on it.

I dont however have any respect for companies that litteraly print the name of the genuine item on them. Thats deception and extremly fradulant but I am sure most of us agree with that.

 

[erictho]

What about cigreen, ehpro, wotofo a-mod, Sigelei, etc.... Do you think these companies don't care about the vaping experience? I think manufacturers like these represent a great affordable future for Vapers, regardless of whether or not their clones make it hard for less efficient manufacturers to compete.

by that logic companies are less efficient because they come up with an original product. that's a little obvious as their business model isn't based on ripping other businesses off. being "less efficient" isnt the issue here.

throughout this thread i see the one amendment that it is wrong to copy a logo. isnt copying just wrong? or not because it involves instant gratification?
you guys have fun with your discussion. i just popped in to put in my two cents and i leave this thread confused.

 

[jb783]

For what i'm saving by vaping, I've decided in the future my purchases will be authentic devices.

I have a clone Plume Veil 1.5 and a clone Hana mod. I like them both a lot, but realize I really can afford the authentic pieces so why not. I like the idea of supporting these companies for their hard work and innovation and want to see them continue to do so.

These clone makers would be sued for their blatant copying if the companies making the originals had the money to take them to court. Really, what they are doing is pretty much illegal.

However, $80 and above is a lot for a little dripping piece like the Plum Veil. But shoot, I used to spend $240 a month on cigarettes so I can definitely afford it.

 

[Rossum]

These clone makers would be sued for their blatant copying if the companies making the originals had the money to take them to court. Really, what they are doing is pretty much illegal.

Copying a functional design isn't illegal unless it violates a patent. Think about it, if it were illegal, there would be no off-brand auto parts; e.g. nobody would be able to sell brake pads that fit a Ford except for Ford.

Personally, I don't concern myself much about what's legal or not, I consider whether it's ethical or not. It's definitely not right to put a "Ford" logo on brake pads that aren't made by/for Ford, and it's definitely not right to put "Made in USA" (or even "Hecho en Mexico") on the box they're in when they're actually made in China. Whether it's right to buy an original set of Ford pads, copy them, and make a work-alike product is much more of a gray area ethically.

I absolutely do agree with you that those of us who can afford it should support the innovative original designers by buying originals.

 

[jb783]

Copying a functional design isn't illegal unless it violates a patent. Think about it, if it were illegal, there would be no off-brand auto parts; e.g. nobody would be able to sell brake pads that fit a Ford except for Ford.

right I'm not a lawer and don't want to get into the weeds on this too much, but I basically mean "all things being equal" etc... in other words, these makers are literally cloning down to the brand's icon, logo, wording, etc...

And if the companies had a bit more money and were a bit larger, they'd be suing these clone makers, and probably making it illegal to import them, at least into the United States

 

[DaveSignal]

by that logic companies are less efficient because they come up with an original product. that's a little obvious as their business model isn't based on ripping other businesses off. being "less efficient" isnt the issue here.

throughout this thread i see the one amendment that it is wrong to copy a logo. isnt copying just wrong? or not because it involves instant gratification?
you guys have fun with your discussion. i just popped in to put in my two cents and i leave this thread confused.

All of the companies that I mentioned (A-mod, Sigelei, EHPro, Cigreen, etc) happen to also make fantastic authentic products that do huge sales volumes. And they can do it at prices comparable to the clones, which they also manufacture. So if they are able to do it and make money, they have to have a more efficient method. The business model isn't based on ripping people off. It is based on making huge amounts of products that people want and selling them at reasonable prices... I guess this is an innovative business model for the industry? it just happens that some of these products aren't their original designs, they have just found a way to do the same thing more efficiently.

 

[dr g]

Copying a functional design isn't illegal unless it violates a patent. Think about it, if it were illegal, there would be no off-brand auto parts; e.g. nobody would be able to sell brake pads that fit a Ford except for Ford.

I do think it's different when it's a wear part vs the main product itself. If someone were to clone an entire ford car you bet there would be an ethical and legal issue taken ...

 

[JayWer]

throughout this thread i see the one amendment that it is wrong to copy a logo. isnt copying just wrong? or not because it involves instant gratification?
you guys have fun with your discussion. i just popped in to put in my two cents and i leave this thread confused.

Copying what? In legal terms as long as its not patented its fair game, in moral terms I cant really see it being that big of a deal unless its the design itself that stands out in its own right and again when you find a clone that's equal to for half the price to me its the producer of the authentic product crossing the moral grey shade.

 

[erictho]

by that logic companies are less efficient because they come up with an original product. that's a little obvious as their business model isn't based on ripping other businesses off. being "less efficient" isnt the issue here.

throughout this thread i see the one amendment that it is wrong to copy a logo. isnt copying just wrong? or not because it involves instant gratification?
you guys have fun with your discussion. i just popped in to put in my two cents and i leave this thread confused.

All of the companies that I mentioned (A-mod, Sigelei, EHPro, Cigreen, etc) happen to also make fantastic authentic products that do huge sales volumes. And they can do it at prices comparable to the clones, which they also manufacture. So if they are able to do it and make money, they have to have a more efficient method. The business model isn't based on ripping people off. It is based on making huge amounts of products that people want and selling them at reasonable prices... I guess this is an innovative business model for the industry? it just happens that some of these products aren't their original designs, they have just found a way to do the same thing more efficiently.

thanks for clarifying. i was confused by your previous comment.
but those companies are large and with that comes some stability and privilege. super t didnt retire from the vape game because they were inefficient and overpriced, they are a small side business.
there were many companies that did their version of a genesis tank. if they are not just plagiarizing products then it really just is a patent issue, isnt it?
when i hear "clone" i think of a compay just copying a product with no innovation whatsoever. i'm talking about companies that supply the vast amount of clones on fasttech and the like.

 

[Rossum]

I do think it's different when it's a wear part vs the main product itself. If someone were to clone an entire ford car you bet there would be an ethical and legal issue taken ...

I'm with you on that. Copying a wear part is on the lighter end of the gray scale to me than copying an entire product would be.

 

[erictho]

throughout this thread i see the one amendment that it is wrong to copy a logo. isnt copying just wrong? or not because it involves instant gratification?
you guys have fun with your discussion. i just popped in to put in my two cents and i leave this thread confused.

Copying what? In legal terms as long as its not patented its fair game, in moral terms I cant really see it being that big of a deal unless its the design itself that stands out in its own right and again when you find a clone that's equal to for half the price to me its the producer of the authentic product crossing the moral grey shade.

to be honest i couldn't care less about the logo thing. i found it to be a weird dealbreaker others were talking about.
again: it is a privilege to be a large company capable of buying raw supplies and manufacturing lots of products for distribution. it does cost a smaller company more to be in business. there is this misconception that small manufacturers are gouging people and rolling around in piles of money. that is just not true for most smaller companies.
so ya, the products will cost more. more often than not you get what you pay for.

 

[Fegbri]

It is simple for me...the same reason I buy shop rite, acme, Walmart, or cvs brand stuff. Logo aside, I bet most people here get the generic prescription drugs. It is a decision that I assess the risk and quality factors, then if I can get a similar product and save $150, it's a no brainer. The logo issue should be fought in the B2B world, not involving consumers...and definitely not having people judge others because they can't afford a $250 authentic but still want something similar and nice. This is my OPINION ONLY!

 

[Bunnykiller]

A tractor is a vehicle. If you buy a vehicle, that does not mean you bought a tractor.
A counterfeit is a clone. If you buy a clone, that does not mean you bought a counterfeit.

If I wear a mask and look just like you, does that make me a clone ( your twin) or a counterfit ( someone who looks like you) ?

 

[Bunnykiller]

It doesn't bother me one bit; as I said, I find the justifications for buying counterfeits interesting. I believe I answered the OP's question in my first reply, "people are cheap..."

I prefer the term/phrase...

people are under paid

 

[Bunnykiller]

I take it you have never seen a genuine Kayfun...

Everyone has priorities. I take a luxury holiday to Prague twice a year and drink the finest beer in the world, while my co workers sit on the couch at home on vacation drinking Budweiser...

sounds like someone has a very strong source of income.... 90% of the population doesnt have that advantage....

 

[Bunnykiller]

Perhaps you just didn't understand what I have posted...Yes, counterfeiting is a crime...

Ok, then, here you go-

Top 10 Authentic RDA's for Under $40! | Vaping Cheap

do you own any of the 10 in the link you provided?

 

[stevegmu]

sounds like someone has a very strong source of income.... 90% of the population doesnt have that advantage....

It's not how much one earns, but how much one saves. Those same guys who can't afford to go on holiday order food everyday at work...
There was a time when people saved for things they really wanted. The clone buyers can afford the genuine device with the logos they want, maybe not right away, but they will appreciate it more if they save for it over time...