Why I Don't like Nic Salts

[John Phoenix]

There's no question that nicotine is a drug, and just like almost every drug out there, different people react differently to it.


It's a stimulant until it isn't. This happens relatively rarely, but there have been times when I've woken up in the middle of the night and not been able to get back to sleep until I had a puff or two from the vape I keep on my night stand. OTOH, when it's time to wake up in the morning, it lifts the fog out of my brain more quickly than the coffee that soon follows.

Cigarettes are less of a stimulant that straight nicotine is for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the carbon monoxide they put in your blood, which displaces oxygen. Then there are the other alkaloids and MAOIs in tobacco that produce some relaxing effects. The latter effect is immediately obvious to me via a good WTA liquid or an iqos.

My Mom.. she's 91 bless her and just stopped playing Tennis a few years ago.. (I Hope I have her genes) says the same about Coffee!! I Don't get it at all.. I used to love Lots of Expresso but now.. even decaffeinated coffee gives me jitters and upsets my stomach. I guess it's just another sign I'm getting to be an old fart. LOL She'll wake up in the middle of the night drink coffee and it puts her to sleep!

 

[John Phoenix]

A Juul is certainly easier to conceal. The catch is that Juul is an "infamous" thing that most people will recognize, while many of them would have no clue what your REO is.

Size comparison:

Come on man.. why Conceal it at All? Show those folks you are all about something better than smoking.. I never understood that stealth thing.. I Guess if you have to vape at a job outside of designated vaping ares or you have to vape something you Need to Hide form the Cops I can see it but otherwise... I dunno.. Oh Btw your mod is Rad.

 

[bombastinator]

The reason I have for dis-liking nic salts is because of the added 'ingredient' (usually, maybe always? benzoic acid) to give one a 'quicker' nic hit that doesn't last as long. This is the same (I think) 'ingredient' added to pre-rolled cigarettes for the same reason. As far as a higher nic level, that's primarily because of a pods lower voltage I believe. A few years ago when I went up north for my brothers funeral I saw somebody using a Juul. I was (sort of) surprised that he really knew nothing about e-liquids, and I certainly wasn't surprised when I told him that the juice in his pod had nearly twice the nic level than the liquid in my RTA.

There are a ton of different ones. Benzoic is just one of them. It’s pretty common one though. All of the blood level/time graphs I’ve seen of protonated nics do that though.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

Well I guess the question is also becomes How much caffeine is too much.. nobody regulates that but nicotine and caffeine are exactly both, a central nervous system stimulant and a vascular constrictor. - I don't Care How legal it Is.. I'm asking - Is there a Point where it's Too Much and then causes the Harm you are Trying to Prevent in the First Place? I believe that's reasonable to discuss. Don't you? Good banter Btw.. I appreciate it.

You too. Most of the time when I get in debates with folks they get huffy but you're cool as a cucumber. At this stage in my life (mid 30s) the question of too much nic or caffeine is not of much interest to me. I drink about a liter of coffee in the morning and vape about 15mL of 5mg e-liquid throughout the day. If I drink too much coffee I get a headache and feel bad. If I vape too fast I feel queasy and need to put it down for a while. That doesn't happen often. If I asked, a doctor would probably say I'm on my way to an early grave, because a doctor's idea of moderation is indistinguishable from abstinence, but it feels pretty self-regulating for me. Ask me again in twenty years and I could have an entirely different outlook on the matter.

 

[madstabber]

(I Hope I have her genes)

Just a heads up but considering she’s your mother I think it’s safe to say you have her genes. Sorry I just had to be a smart ...,’when I read that I laughed.

 

[greek mule]

So what amount of nicotine do the experts say you are actually absorbing when smoked if not 24 mg?

Tobacco cigarettes have about a 5% transfer efficiency.
One cigarette contains on average 18mg nicotine.After combustion the smoke contains about 1 mg nicotine.
E-cigs have an average nicotine transfer efficiency 50%.About half of the nicotine in the e-liquid is transferred into the vapour.

The tobacco companies say that 1-2mg of nicotine per cigarette is absorbed by the smoker.

This comes in compliance with 5% Nicotine transfer efficiency at cigarettes.

As far as I can tell, nic salts do not absorb any differently than freebase.

You are correct.The difference is you can vape really high nic strength nic salt e-liquids with lack of throat harshness.

Researchers have found that freebase nicotine is the most optimal version of nicotine. It allows it to bind to the nicotine receptors in the brain and the rest of the body.
Nicotine itself (in its natural form) is a base and is not very potent in the body until protons are removed. Nicotine in nature absorbs protons which results in the nicotine molecules becoming ions. Ions don’t move across organic membranes very well so they are less likely to affect the body. For nicotine to become potent, it needs to be de-protonated, or converted into a “freebase” form.

The trick with Nicotine salts is the acid added.
Juul for example adds benzoic acid to their formula, which helps to degrade the nicotine during the heating process. This makes it better absorbed but still retains the smooth throat hit.

Benzoic acid serves two key purposes in salt nicotine:
1.It helps nicotine salt vaporize at lower temperatures as well as lowering the pH levels in the salt nicotine which results in a smoother throat hit
2.A chemical reaction occurs that makes the nicotine more absorbable like free base nicotine

 

[Zakillah]

Tobacco cigarettes have about a 5% transfer efficiency.
One cigarette contains on average 18mg nicotine.After combustion the smoke contains about 1 mg nicotine.

E-cigs have an average nicotine transfer efficiency 50%.About half of the nicotine in the e-liquid is transferred into the vapour.

On cigarettes you´re right. Most of the Nic gets burned or carried away by side stream smoke.

But I really wonder where you get the 50% transfer rate of Nicotine in ecigs from. Because its wrong. No burning, no side stream smoke. Where is half of the Nic going?

 

[Electrodave]

See that cloud you just blew? It's full of nicotine. No way the transfer rate is 50%. You're exhaling more than 50% of vapor production.

 

[greek mule]

But I really wonder where you get the 50% transfer rate of Nicotine in ecigs from. Because its wrong. No burning, no side stream smoke. Where is half of the Nic going?

See that cloud you just blew? It's full of nicotine. No way the transfer rate is 50%. You're exhaling more than 50% of vapor production.

Electronic Cigarettes yield 90.5% nicotine vapor compared to traditional cigarettes. post #32 QUOTE:
"Another relevant factor is that ecigs have been extensively tested by Goniewicz et al in multiple tests over several years, and the average nicotine transfer efficiency is around 50%: about half of the nicotine in the e-liquid is transferred into the vapour. If you have a bottle containing 1ml of 12mg strength e-liquid, there is 12mg of nicotine in that bottle; so, if you vape it, then on average you will receive 6mg of nicotine".
:

 

[Zakillah]

If transfer rate means what actually ends up in your body (not what you inhale) I can get behind it.

If it means that only 50% of the Nic gets vaporised in the first place, its wrong. I measured vapor output of Ecigs compared to the used E-Liquid 100s of times and its always pretty much the same.

 

[greek mule]

Another quote from a @rolygate's post:
"The quantity of nicotine in vapor has not been tested satisfactorily [1], therefore an equivalent cannot be calculated. We cannot calculate how much is delivered in the vapor vs how much is in cigarette smoke, because we don't have the data we need. The current estimate (at Q1 2013) is about 50% of the nicotine in the liquid is transferred into the vapor (because a variety of tests have been made but do not agree, although there is a preponderance of results around 50% to 55%)."

 

[Zakillah]

I dont see how an estimate from 2013 trumps actual measurements and hard data.

 

[barkfunklerbunk]

I love nic salts, it's worked quite well for me. I used to chain vape 24mg freebase on my 1.0 ohm RTA at about 17 watts. I'm now vaping 50mg salts on the same RTA at the same ohms and wattage. No more chainvaping and I am going through a whole lot less juice. I mix my own salts as well, so I'm saving big there. Store bought salts are expensive. I haven't used a pod and don't really plan on it ever. Salts are not just for pods.

 

[barkfunklerbunk]

I love nic salts, it's worked quite well for me. I used to chain vape 24mg freebase on my 1.0 ohm RTA at about 17 watts. I'm now vaping 50mg salts on the same RTA at the same ohms and wattage. No more chainvaping and I am going through a whole lot less juice. I mix my own salts as well, so I'm saving big there. Store bought salts are expensive. I haven't used a pod and don't really plan on it ever. Salts are not just for pods.

I sure love hitting my RTA just twice and be good for a while. I work a job that sometimes all I have is just a few seconds of free time. And my wife hates clouds. Less clouds = happy wife. There are a myriad of reasons why 50mg nic salt works well for me, and I don't get "drugged" up.

 

[HigherStateD]

Tried vaping several times. Went back to 60 gauge cigars every time until salts.

 

[Rossum]

Well I guess the question is also becomes How much caffeine is too much.

https://filtermag.org/2019/06/10/if-we-wrote-about-caffeine-like-we-do-other-drugs/

What’s more, these shops often lace coffee with sugar or flavors that make their wares appealing to young people. Some caffeine pushers—known as baristas—even add eye-catching designs to coffee foam, such as hearts and flowers, to entice users to share images of the product on social media.

 

[HigherStateD]

Not to mention the coffees that not only have added sugar or flavor, but added caffeine also.

 

[Jebbn]

I much prefer freebase. I like the affect of it more. I feel it stronger and for longer. I can use a lower mg nic juice. Nic salts makes me feel slightly nauseous and the nic hit doesnt hit so hard. Its a different nic hit, its not what Im looking for.
Generally, and personally speaking, from the 5 brands of unflavoured nic salts I have tried most unflavoured nic salts have a different taste to the unflavoured freebase I have tried.
Some unflavoured nic salts taste not so good, to me. I have one bottle of 100mg and the taste of the benzoic acid is quite strong. I have three brands of unflavoured 100mg and the neighbour has a couple of brands she got fro the US. Weve kinda mucked around with mixes and different dosages and tried brews from each others stash, neither of us rate the nic salts highly in terms of taste and nic hit or the longevity of the nic hit. Her daughter much prefers the nic salts to freebase as far as how it makes her feel and the taste.
Another friend shifted from 18mg freebase to a high mg nic salt and quit smoking(yay) but ended up going back to freebase because she had a problem with excess flem with nic salts.

 

[vsummer1]

Come on man.. why Conceal it at All? Show those folks you are all about something better than smoking.. I never understood that stealth thing.. I Guess if you have to vape at a job outside of designated vaping ares or you have to vape something you Need to Hide form the Cops I can see it but otherwise... I dunno.. Oh Btw your mod is Rad.

I used to feel the same way. I vaped pretty much wherever, but respected others by not blowing huge clouds. On planes, in restaurants, while shopping....
then came the cloud chasers blowing huge plumes of vapor all over the place because they could, and didn't give a hoot about whether other people understood that smoke doesn't necessarily mean fire. It disturbed people and became an issue. So now no more vaping on planes, in restaurants or while shopping, or even in San Francisco I heard. And that is why a stealth vape might come in handy.

 

[John Phoenix]

Just a heads up but considering she’s your mother I think it’s safe to say you have her genes. Sorry I just had to be a smart ...,’when I read that I laughed.

No problem.. LOL I really meant her genes compared to my dads genes of course I have those too but he died in his 60's due to complications on the operating table during a quadruple bypass. I'm catching up to that age and all of his brothers had heart trouble, runs in the family on his side.