Why is ECF full of so many people against subohming?
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A reminder: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html
I'd highly suggest some familiarize themselves with the rules.
I'd highly suggest some familiarize themselves with the rules.
I've been vaping high power mech mod setups for over a year now almost exclusively. I use VTC3 and VTC4s too. I know these don't explode.
But if your comment in bold above means you think these batteries can't be dangerous you do not know of what you speak. I'm not afraid of my batteries in my mods or I wouldn't vape them, but I do respect them. I would not recommend one of my setups to anyone I felt had not done their homework and so probably doesn't understand the risks and is not going into this with eyes wide open.
There is also more to this than simple battery safety. Dry hits at 30 watts are not good. Auto firing in a pocket at 30 watts gets nasty pretty quick too.
The devil is in the details. 4V can do a lot of harm.
An arc welder is a high amperage, low voltage power supply.
There are two types of these: constant amperage and constant voltage. The stick welder is the constant amperage type. Wire feed welders are constant voltage.
Arc welders generally use transformers to reduce the voltage and boost the amperage to levels useful for welding.
Never got the joke either....
There are two types of these: constant amperage and constant voltage. The stick welder is the constant amperage type. Wire feed welders are constant voltage.
Arc welders generally use transformers to reduce the voltage and boost the amperage to levels useful for welding.
Never got the joke either....
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Why do you keep berating starsgo because he's happy with the response given by the manufacturer he contacted?
Your questions have already been answered so stop trying to make him look like a fool.
Sent from a BIG phone.....Galaxy Note 3
because over time that is dangerous... if that is even what you actually have. if you're... 0.04 less than that you have a problem. Amps increase really quickly at the low end. What is the margin of error on your meter? Do you know?
derp
Yeah... it's "Jealousy". That's totally it. 'Cause anyone cant take a wrap or two off their builds, and we don't all have VTC4/VTC5s ourselves.
The general rule I've gotten from my flashlight friends, who have been batterying much longer than we, is that you don't want to go below 10 times the internal resistance of the battery. Otherwise you basically have what is called "a short"
The internal resistance of a Sony VTC4 is 12 miliohms, which is 0.012ohms, which times 10 is 0.12ohms
Simple reason why I gave up on sub ohm, it's called efficiency. I'd much rather get three hits/drop instead of using up three drops/hit. I'd much rather an 18490 last me all day than have a 18650 only last an hour.
Oh and, IMO there is only one battery that I would suggest for super low resistance.
NMKE's are the only 30amp/60amp battery
Oh and, IMO there is only one battery that I would suggest for super low resistance.
NMKE's are the only 30amp/60amp battery
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I dunno... I kinda dig my Kayfun @ 0.6-0.7, and my drippers around 0.3-0.4
battery life doesn't concern me. is easy to bring a couple extras and when home is no thing at all
THANK YOU.
It's something people who subohm should know but we hardly ever hear it mentioned.
The battery has an internal resistance.
Knowing that number gives you some perspective of how close you are to a short.
oh man I honestly can't wait for my 26 Copper... have those new 50 amp batts in the cart and ready to go.
I srsly reload the store page for that mod every time I open my computer
Hi, well, I've read until page 5, wanted to share my opinion for those who care (those who don't, feel free to skip, I won't hold any grudge)
first who I am and where do I come from
I'm 35, single parent (meaning that the well being of my son relies on me being able to be there and now in the hospital or worse)
I got a background in electricity, safety and whatnot, of course I know about ohm's law, intensity, power, resistance etc... to begin with. Not at engineer level, but well above your average joe.
also, I sub ohm (is that even a verb?), nothing fancy, usually around .6-.8, occasionally in the .3-.5 range
I do like big clouds, it amuses me, I just find it fun, which is the main reason why I sub ohm. Of course, I appreciate the flavors as much as the next guy too.
Obviously, my equipment, batteries, is up to the task (VTC4 and so on)
I'm assuming that I'm doing it safely. Yet am I totally faithful in myself and my equipment to the point that I never have a slight touch of worry when I press that button? No, I am not. So what do I do to limit that feeling?
1. leave a safety margin between what my coils show on the reader and what my batteries limits are
2. never go below .2 because at that point, how close am I to the short? considering the cheap readers that I'm using. But even then, I usually don't go below .3 which is my absolute lower limit with a VTC4 or Purple efest battery (that, in theory, could handle .1x, but then again, which reader can tell the difference between .1 and .01?)
Other than that, I try and TAKE TIME, talk to newbies and make sure they have the information they need, this is as much as I can do. Despite that, I know that many newbies won't take the time to read my posts or watch the information I give them (websites etc...).
But I've done my part. After that, we all should take responsibility for our actions, sometimes, we have to pay the price for our stupid actions.
Some drink and drive too fast, kill people and/or themselves
Some try to fly between mountains and kill themselves
Others drive racecars and even the best can kill himself
I guess the vape accident is bound to happen.
Let it be a sub ohmer with a blown face, or a lambda user who burnt his appartment leaving an ego clone plugged while asleep (btw, it already happened on another forum)
Now as a sub ohmer, I would like to point out something that I feel is important.
Many, responsible sub ohmers will have the appropriate equipment, in many ways, their vape practice will actually be *safer* than your lambda cigalike/ego user. Why is that? Because we don't want to die or suffer, like anyone else, we actually do care about our safety. Even the most stupid of kids don't want his face blown.
Our role, as a community, is to get out there, go to kids who want to sub ohm and point out "hey kid, just make sure you do it right, because there is a serious risk to blow your face off, what is your battery?"
Be friendly, take the time to explain and dumb it down enough so even the most stupids of kids will understand.
But also accept the fact that eventually, it will happen, some kid will make the news with a blow face. Just as sure as there will be death from over charged, over cheap ego clone.
Now to finish, I can not agree with the OP on the attitude of "I know it's safe because I'm good and experienced", it's the same as some guy driving too fast and claiming he knows what he's doing because he's been driving for 10 years, one hand on the wheel and the other rested on the window or the shifter ... well... you get the picture.
If you know how to do it safe, then EXPLAIN, SHOW, and participate as a community member. You can't just come here, show off your d0pe buildzzz and move on. Kids may look up to you, it's your, our responsibility to make sure everybody stays as safe as possible.
first who I am and where do I come from
I'm 35, single parent (meaning that the well being of my son relies on me being able to be there and now in the hospital or worse)
I got a background in electricity, safety and whatnot, of course I know about ohm's law, intensity, power, resistance etc... to begin with. Not at engineer level, but well above your average joe.
also, I sub ohm (is that even a verb?), nothing fancy, usually around .6-.8, occasionally in the .3-.5 range
I do like big clouds, it amuses me, I just find it fun, which is the main reason why I sub ohm. Of course, I appreciate the flavors as much as the next guy too.
Obviously, my equipment, batteries, is up to the task (VTC4 and so on)
I'm assuming that I'm doing it safely. Yet am I totally faithful in myself and my equipment to the point that I never have a slight touch of worry when I press that button? No, I am not. So what do I do to limit that feeling?
1. leave a safety margin between what my coils show on the reader and what my batteries limits are
2. never go below .2 because at that point, how close am I to the short? considering the cheap readers that I'm using. But even then, I usually don't go below .3 which is my absolute lower limit with a VTC4 or Purple efest battery (that, in theory, could handle .1x, but then again, which reader can tell the difference between .1 and .01?)
Other than that, I try and TAKE TIME, talk to newbies and make sure they have the information they need, this is as much as I can do. Despite that, I know that many newbies won't take the time to read my posts or watch the information I give them (websites etc...).
But I've done my part. After that, we all should take responsibility for our actions, sometimes, we have to pay the price for our stupid actions.
Some drink and drive too fast, kill people and/or themselves
Some try to fly between mountains and kill themselves
Others drive racecars and even the best can kill himself
I guess the vape accident is bound to happen.
Let it be a sub ohmer with a blown face, or a lambda user who burnt his appartment leaving an ego clone plugged while asleep (btw, it already happened on another forum)
Now as a sub ohmer, I would like to point out something that I feel is important.
Many, responsible sub ohmers will have the appropriate equipment, in many ways, their vape practice will actually be *safer* than your lambda cigalike/ego user. Why is that? Because we don't want to die or suffer, like anyone else, we actually do care about our safety. Even the most stupid of kids don't want his face blown.
Our role, as a community, is to get out there, go to kids who want to sub ohm and point out "hey kid, just make sure you do it right, because there is a serious risk to blow your face off, what is your battery?"
Be friendly, take the time to explain and dumb it down enough so even the most stupids of kids will understand.
But also accept the fact that eventually, it will happen, some kid will make the news with a blow face. Just as sure as there will be death from over charged, over cheap ego clone.
Now to finish, I can not agree with the OP on the attitude of "I know it's safe because I'm good and experienced", it's the same as some guy driving too fast and claiming he knows what he's doing because he's been driving for 10 years, one hand on the wheel and the other rested on the window or the shifter ... well... you get the picture.
If you know how to do it safe, then EXPLAIN, SHOW, and participate as a community member. You can't just come here, show off your d0pe buildzzz and move on. Kids may look up to you, it's your, our responsibility to make sure everybody stays as safe as possible.
Biggest reason behind many ECF members being against some people using sub-ohm setups is specifically due to battery safety. Too many people are trying to use batteries not designed for high current (amperage). If I see someone on here trying to fire up a 0.3 ohm coil on a 18350 Trust Fire... yeah, I'm going to be against it and warning them of the dangers. Also, there are too many people that do not understand how to make a coil... and while coil making may not seem difficult to some.. many do not do it correctly and typically have many many issues that could potentially cause their battery to go thermal.
Not too long ago, I actually read a post about a kid trying sub-ohm builds and he/she laughed about how many batteries they ruined because they went thermal... moral of this story, some people should just stick to pre-made coils.
I believe the reason why people are telling you that your build is dangerous is well, because it is indeed dangerous. The high current that you are pulling will cause quite a violent thermal breakdown if something were to go wrong. All that stands between you and a hand grenade is as simple as a screw coming loose and causing a short (many other issues, like arching, could happen as well). Even if you have your mod well ventilated, with that much current involved, there is a higher chance of combustion. Not only would this cause severe burns but could also catch nearby objects on fire. There is also a higher chance of it exploding.
That said... I vape sub-ohm as well. Usually my favorite vape is around 0.23 ohms. I have gone lower. I know for a fact that I am holding a grenade... but, I still feel safer holding and puffing on this thing than I do smoking cigarettes.
Edit: Forgot to mention battery internal resistance. I won't go into detail as someone already has on here but 0.11 is essentially a short. If you want to push upwards of 160 watts, the best way would be to increase resistance and have a converter handle the power push and increase your voltage. Amperage is not the issue here but more so the low resistance. There is a lot involved with electricity and batteries.
Not too long ago, I actually read a post about a kid trying sub-ohm builds and he/she laughed about how many batteries they ruined because they went thermal... moral of this story, some people should just stick to pre-made coils.
I believe the reason why people are telling you that your build is dangerous is well, because it is indeed dangerous. The high current that you are pulling will cause quite a violent thermal breakdown if something were to go wrong. All that stands between you and a hand grenade is as simple as a screw coming loose and causing a short (many other issues, like arching, could happen as well). Even if you have your mod well ventilated, with that much current involved, there is a higher chance of combustion. Not only would this cause severe burns but could also catch nearby objects on fire. There is also a higher chance of it exploding.
That said... I vape sub-ohm as well. Usually my favorite vape is around 0.23 ohms. I have gone lower. I know for a fact that I am holding a grenade... but, I still feel safer holding and puffing on this thing than I do smoking cigarettes.
Edit: Forgot to mention battery internal resistance. I won't go into detail as someone already has on here but 0.11 is essentially a short. If you want to push upwards of 160 watts, the best way would be to increase resistance and have a converter handle the power push and increase your voltage. Amperage is not the issue here but more so the low resistance. There is a lot involved with electricity and batteries.
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a good rule of thumb is to not push your battery over HALF the max discharge, so .28 for a 30amp battery. i have goone lower on occasion but usually i dont go below .3 its just not good for your battery. if you vape .11 it doesnt mean youre gonna get your face blown off with the first hit, its just stressing your battery. it wont last as long and yes theres a possibility it will heat up real fast. but even someone vaping at 2 ohms could have a battery vent. just because you CAN work 70 hrs a week doesnt mean you SHOULD
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to be honest.... there are alot of people out there who want to do the clouds just for the visuals. They dont want to take the time to learn how to make a proper coil and know what their battery is capable of... too impatient, want it now, instant gratification thing... build a wrong coil for the battery and the odds of something going wrong increase expotentially ...
On March 27 you asked these quite basic questions, which tells me that you're not nearly as experienced as you claim:
In April you're talking about your 3 ohm (I guess you meant 0.3) quad coil, which was built for you at the vape ship. Again, you're not very experienced.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
In April you're talking about your 3 ohm (I guess you meant 0.3) quad coil, which was built for you at the vape ship. Again, you're not very experienced.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
My friend Willi (Unsoeld) was one of most experienced and knowledgeable ice climbers in the world. All that knowledge and experience did not prevent his death when the slab of ice he was standing on came crshing down.
Safety is not about when things are going right. Safety is about what happens when something goes wrong.
That's why we discuss things like safer batteries, proper venting, and resistances.
Safety is not about when things are going right. Safety is about what happens when something goes wrong.
That's why we discuss things like safer batteries, proper venting, and resistances.
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