wow, ok, i just learned something new, so something good came of this thread.. sales are halted until further notice, i will remove the listing from the site.
thanks
update: product has been removed
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wow, ok, i just learned something new, so something good came of this thread.. sales are halted until further notice, i will remove the listing from the site.
thanks
update: product has been removed
So I guess the fact that his Premium solution flavored with bickford flavoring. These are all custom mixed and tested after your order is placed. Premium flavors are available in 0,2,4,6,8,12,16,24,32,36, and 40mg strengths.
So the 40 is to high also?? I personally smoke 36 straight! It does not give me a buzz at ALL. Now I do think 40 would probably give me a kick in the ***!! Doubt if I will kick it up beyond 36 though. I usually smoke 36 75% of the time and 18mg 25% of the time.
Everyone keeps saying he should be kicked off the forum! Why exactly is that!! I have read ALOT of messages since I have been here. There is alot of stuff said and the easiest way to settle it is to agree to disagree. If we want to kick people off of the forum how about the lady who admitted to telling her shippers in china to misreprisent what is in a box to get it through customs!! That is blastently ILLEGAL!!
You may not agree that 48mg should be sold! But alas it IS NOT illegal!!!
So the 40 is to high also?? I personally smoke 36 straight! It does not give me a buzz at ALL. Now I do think 40 would probably give me a kick in the ***!! Doubt if I will kick it up beyond 36 though. I usually smoke 36 75% of the time and 18mg 25% of the time.
Everyone keeps saying he should be kicked off the forum! Why exactly is that!! I have read ALOT of messages since I have been here. There is alot of stuff said and the easiest way to settle it is to agree to disagree. If we want to kick people off of the forum how about the lady who admitted to telling her shippers in china to misreprisent what is in a box to get it through customs!! That is blastently ILLEGAL!!
You may not agree that 48mg should be sold! But alas it IS NOT illegal!!!
Sounds like a good idea. Not trying to pick on you here. A good lesson for all vendors and users.
Why this thread should be burned, buried and purged from any internet archive that exists is that we have amateurs mixing toxic substances and selling them and they don't have a clue what they are doing.
THIS is why the FDA will ban the sale of e-juice.
How about 6 months from now when ALL suppliers see the request for 48mg juices by people who DIY!! And 48 starts showing up more and more! I will be willing to bet if it is researched the same things were said about 36mg!!
i always figured the fda would ban the sale of ejuice due to idiots claiming it is a stop smoking device, or just about any other claim that gets it listed as a medical device.... but thats just my two cents.. as far as amateurs go, my unflavored was mixed at a lab (hopefully by non amateurs), since... well... they are the same lab that many suppliers on here order from. i just fought with them to have a custom one made. as far as mixing goes i follow the same standards anyone else does... well, except that i have a sealed ventilation box, use transfer pipettes, and have graduated cylinders with .1ml graduation marks... so my custom mixes probably have less contaminants than those mixed in your kitchen using whatever is available.
but at this point, i will bow out of the thread, as... i came in to find a solution to the proposed problem, and that has been done.
but at this point, i will bow out of the thread, as... i came in to find a solution to the proposed problem, and that has been done.
Well, the good news is that you are selling less than expected doses...
Here is the general math involved...
Cigarettes "CAN" contain between 6mg to 30mg, depending on the plant and processing of the tobacco.
Of that 6 - 30mg within a cigarette, it is common that, with heat, combustion, filtering, and wasted unsmoked burn-away, that only 1.2mg - 4.8mg is consumed. (4.8mg for unfiltered cigar-like cigs. 1.2mg - 1.8mg for most common cigs with a fiberglass filter.)
Untreated tobacco is used for extraction, not chemically treated cigarettes. The paper-treatment, and tobacco treatment has undesired chemicals that contaminate the extracted nicotine. When/if you get nicotine crystals to form, they will have trapped some of these impurities within the crystal structure. (Though, the toxicity will be greatly reduced, when compared to the same toxin levels that are in a cigarette it was extracted from.)
Unless you have the extracted solution, or mixed solution tested... you should ASSUME that you have the highest possible concentration, not the average concentration. (Average is around 20mg, while high would be 30mg per cigarette.)
If you have extracted, or created pure synthetic nicotine, you can just weigh the crystal powder. Measuring liquid requires a reagent test, and/or spectrum testing.
When manufacturing, you would create a large batch of extract, seed it, and remove only the crystals. The crystals would be dissolved into a refinement solution that helps to chemically draw-out impurities with ionization, and/or physical microbial digestion to a product that can be skimmed or evaporated, or left within the solution.
This would be seeded again, and pure, or near-pure crystals would be removed, tested for purity, and held until the evaluation came back. The evaluation would tell them how to use the extraction, for mixing, since the concentration is now known.
You MUST assume you have more nicotine than you could possibly have, because if you assume and publish that you have less, but you actually have more... that places you into a more dangerous undesired legal position of selling poison, falsely represented as non-poisonous levels. As opposed to the small legal battle you would face, if you sold less, as more... Selling it as 34mg, but it actually being 20mg, is not as bad as selling it as 34mg, but it actually being 60mg.
As long as you state that the solution you sell is not for direct undiluted use, and the concentration of the marked solution is equal to, or less than the marked value. You should be mostly safe.
There is a draw-back to creating low-nicotine solution...
Your body desires a certain level of nicotine, based on your prior habits. Giving less nicotine, translates into the desire to toke more VG or PG and flavoring. This could create more health issues, if the person has a reaction to high levels of VG and PG and flavoring.
On the opposite side... (Like the way I toke)
I use higher levels of nicotine, so that I take-in less VG and PG and flavoring. I am satisfied with my 4 tokes of "High Nic", as opposed to the 20 tokes of "Low Nic", that I would need to get the same level of nicotine. I don't have time, or battery power to waste toking away all day long. I need a quick short blast now... one five minutes later... another five minutes later... and if needed... one more five minutes later.
However... the latter use, is NOT for a NOOB, who will attempt to toke 20 hits for five solid minutes. That will make them sick, or trigger some serious condition, before they have time to stop... EG... It takes a minute or two before it is all absorbed, and by then, there is no way to remove the high level they just consumed. Only in distant tokes, can you "Feel" and regulate intake.
So...
You could also add a solid disclaimer...
This extraction is for non-human testing only. By purchasing this unregulated concentration, you are agreeing that you will not sell, consume, or hold (______) liable for any damages related to the abuse of the untested materials provided.
Though, I would still consult a lawyer.
The other alternative you could offer... As opposed to selling extractions... You could sell extracting-services. They would provide the desired tobacco, and you would extract the physical plant material, and reduce the solution into the lowest possible purity that you can. (This would still require individual batch testing, so you could dilute the solution into a less dangerous concentration that is within acceptable limits. I believe the acceptable limit is around 40mg per ml for concentrated solution.)
However, there is also the issue of...
What are you diluting it with?
Are you using pharmaceutical grade certified chemicals? Can you prove it with records of purchases and tested, registered batch numbers? Are you operating in a clean-room? (A clean-room is not a room that is scrubbed well. It is a sealed room that has a positive-pressure environment, maintained by a medical-grade hepa-filter system that filters down to 99.999999% of 0.000001 micron particles and bacteria. While you operate in a clean-suit, wearing a full head-net and breather-mask. Filling only sterilized bottles which are then sealed while within the confines of the clean-room.)
You could always find a manufacture who accepts "Recipes", and will be willing to do the work for you. You just have to demand that they state they have a USP certified laboratory for production. (Or similar requirement. You need to consult a lawyer about that also, or at least a similar manufacture.)
Just some food for thought...
Here is the general math involved...
Cigarettes "CAN" contain between 6mg to 30mg, depending on the plant and processing of the tobacco.
Of that 6 - 30mg within a cigarette, it is common that, with heat, combustion, filtering, and wasted unsmoked burn-away, that only 1.2mg - 4.8mg is consumed. (4.8mg for unfiltered cigar-like cigs. 1.2mg - 1.8mg for most common cigs with a fiberglass filter.)
Untreated tobacco is used for extraction, not chemically treated cigarettes. The paper-treatment, and tobacco treatment has undesired chemicals that contaminate the extracted nicotine. When/if you get nicotine crystals to form, they will have trapped some of these impurities within the crystal structure. (Though, the toxicity will be greatly reduced, when compared to the same toxin levels that are in a cigarette it was extracted from.)
Unless you have the extracted solution, or mixed solution tested... you should ASSUME that you have the highest possible concentration, not the average concentration. (Average is around 20mg, while high would be 30mg per cigarette.)
If you have extracted, or created pure synthetic nicotine, you can just weigh the crystal powder. Measuring liquid requires a reagent test, and/or spectrum testing.
When manufacturing, you would create a large batch of extract, seed it, and remove only the crystals. The crystals would be dissolved into a refinement solution that helps to chemically draw-out impurities with ionization, and/or physical microbial digestion to a product that can be skimmed or evaporated, or left within the solution.
This would be seeded again, and pure, or near-pure crystals would be removed, tested for purity, and held until the evaluation came back. The evaluation would tell them how to use the extraction, for mixing, since the concentration is now known.
You MUST assume you have more nicotine than you could possibly have, because if you assume and publish that you have less, but you actually have more... that places you into a more dangerous undesired legal position of selling poison, falsely represented as non-poisonous levels. As opposed to the small legal battle you would face, if you sold less, as more... Selling it as 34mg, but it actually being 20mg, is not as bad as selling it as 34mg, but it actually being 60mg.
As long as you state that the solution you sell is not for direct undiluted use, and the concentration of the marked solution is equal to, or less than the marked value. You should be mostly safe.
There is a draw-back to creating low-nicotine solution...
Your body desires a certain level of nicotine, based on your prior habits. Giving less nicotine, translates into the desire to toke more VG or PG and flavoring. This could create more health issues, if the person has a reaction to high levels of VG and PG and flavoring.
On the opposite side... (Like the way I toke)
I use higher levels of nicotine, so that I take-in less VG and PG and flavoring. I am satisfied with my 4 tokes of "High Nic", as opposed to the 20 tokes of "Low Nic", that I would need to get the same level of nicotine. I don't have time, or battery power to waste toking away all day long. I need a quick short blast now... one five minutes later... another five minutes later... and if needed... one more five minutes later.
However... the latter use, is NOT for a NOOB, who will attempt to toke 20 hits for five solid minutes. That will make them sick, or trigger some serious condition, before they have time to stop... EG... It takes a minute or two before it is all absorbed, and by then, there is no way to remove the high level they just consumed. Only in distant tokes, can you "Feel" and regulate intake.
So...
You could also add a solid disclaimer...
This extraction is for non-human testing only. By purchasing this unregulated concentration, you are agreeing that you will not sell, consume, or hold (______) liable for any damages related to the abuse of the untested materials provided.
Though, I would still consult a lawyer.
The other alternative you could offer... As opposed to selling extractions... You could sell extracting-services. They would provide the desired tobacco, and you would extract the physical plant material, and reduce the solution into the lowest possible purity that you can. (This would still require individual batch testing, so you could dilute the solution into a less dangerous concentration that is within acceptable limits. I believe the acceptable limit is around 40mg per ml for concentrated solution.)
However, there is also the issue of...
What are you diluting it with?
Are you using pharmaceutical grade certified chemicals? Can you prove it with records of purchases and tested, registered batch numbers? Are you operating in a clean-room? (A clean-room is not a room that is scrubbed well. It is a sealed room that has a positive-pressure environment, maintained by a medical-grade hepa-filter system that filters down to 99.999999% of 0.000001 micron particles and bacteria. While you operate in a clean-suit, wearing a full head-net and breather-mask. Filling only sterilized bottles which are then sealed while within the confines of the clean-room.)
You could always find a manufacture who accepts "Recipes", and will be willing to do the work for you. You just have to demand that they state they have a USP certified laboratory for production. (Or similar requirement. You need to consult a lawyer about that also, or at least a similar manufacture.)
Just some food for thought...
Repost:
My order's in for the 48 mg. Here's how I feel about it. I am an adult....and at my age, am pretty sure I know what is good for me and what isn't. No one else has to make that decision for me. I mean, the government controls enough of what I can and can't do....I don't need my peers telling me as well.
I will most likely first try it with some loranns....but the bulk of it will be mixed with VG and loranns to the thickness I like. When I do that with the 36mg, it cuts the nic too much for me. With the 48, I can mix it with a good deal of flavor (which I need since my tastebuds are so weak)....and still get the nic I need. Win-win situation for me!
For those that can't understand that....or don't agree....oh well! Such is life, right? ;-)
Lu
My order's in for the 48 mg. Here's how I feel about it. I am an adult....and at my age, am pretty sure I know what is good for me and what isn't. No one else has to make that decision for me. I mean, the government controls enough of what I can and can't do....I don't need my peers telling me as well.
I will most likely first try it with some loranns....but the bulk of it will be mixed with VG and loranns to the thickness I like. When I do that with the 36mg, it cuts the nic too much for me. With the 48, I can mix it with a good deal of flavor (which I need since my tastebuds are so weak)....and still get the nic I need. Win-win situation for me!
For those that can't understand that....or don't agree....oh well! Such is life, right? ;-)
Lu
I smoked Marlboro light 100's for years.
I Quit smoking about a month ago when I got my 901's and
a large bottle of the 36 mg Marlboro juice from TW.
From everything I was reading on the posts , I decided to cut it in half with glycerin and distilled water...I ruined it
(way too weak for me),and had to reorder a bottle of 36.
(hadda pick up a pack of Djaram Blacks to get me through a few days)while I waited for my order.
I've since bought 100's of bottles ,different flavors from different suppliers - but all 36 mg. I vape that stuff (straight) pretty much nonstop in my semi as I drive around making deliveries and pickups
(15 - 16 hrs a day / 4 days a week) That stuff keeps me rockin' down the road,and use my passthrough at home pretty much the same.
But that's just me.
I tend to go extreme with most everything I do,Here's the kicker haha...in 2000I found out I had heart disease and had 96% blockage in one artery and 70% in another so they ran the roto-rooter through and opened em' up,
then installed 2 stints to keep em' open.
I quit smoking for a few months then , but started again ,
and was soon at two packs a day once more.
Anyway I'm still a hundred percent nicotine addicted
and I can't wait to get my lungs on some of that 48!
So , If you don't see me around here anymore...
know I went out with one helluva Nico-buzz lol.
I Quit smoking about a month ago when I got my 901's and
a large bottle of the 36 mg Marlboro juice from TW.
From everything I was reading on the posts , I decided to cut it in half with glycerin and distilled water...I ruined it
(way too weak for me),and had to reorder a bottle of 36.
(hadda pick up a pack of Djaram Blacks to get me through a few days)while I waited for my order.
I've since bought 100's of bottles ,different flavors from different suppliers - but all 36 mg. I vape that stuff (straight) pretty much nonstop in my semi as I drive around making deliveries and pickups
(15 - 16 hrs a day / 4 days a week) That stuff keeps me rockin' down the road,and use my passthrough at home pretty much the same.
But that's just me.
I tend to go extreme with most everything I do,Here's the kicker haha...in 2000I found out I had heart disease and had 96% blockage in one artery and 70% in another so they ran the roto-rooter through and opened em' up,
then installed 2 stints to keep em' open.
I quit smoking for a few months then , but started again ,
and was soon at two packs a day once more.
Anyway I'm still a hundred percent nicotine addicted
and I can't wait to get my lungs on some of that 48!
So , If you don't see me around here anymore...
know I went out with one helluva Nico-buzz lol.
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This is AWESOME to find this. If you make your own juice, you can knock down the concentration (the math is not that hard, folks) and flavor as you like. Gonna LOVE this one.
jim420....hmmm...not sure about this comment. Are you serious? Or being sarcastic? (emoticons are your friend)....Maybe you should read the whole thread again.
I dont think selling production grade rat poison is AWESOME...unless your selling it on a site that focuses towards that need...not a website that sells products designed (and used) for their intended purpose.
If people really REALLY want to get their freak-on with nicotine, then go to Alibaba...buy your own pure nicotine...then tell us how you did with that (if your still alive)
As for some of the earlier posts about liabilities... and a little disclaimer (or large one) on a webpage will cover your @$$...........-and-a-pumphandle! You may want to confer with several lawyers on that. Ever read the Stella Awards? Even today you could burn yourself with hot coffee and sue the crap outta them.
Buyer Beware people
I, for one thank you very much, Trintek! I think with everything going on right now, that is very wise. I really respect your quick action on this a great deal, and I'd say that really says a lot about your character.
"If we want to kick people off of the forum how about the lady who admitted to telling her shippers in china to misreprisent what is in a box to get it through customs!! That is blastently ILLEGAL!!"
A shipping invoice is, at least theoreitcally, in the shipper's control, not the recipients. The shipper can jeopardize his right to import, but you'll probably have a tough time doing anything to the recipient.
here is my .02 vapes on this subject if i can afford to get some while i can i will would not mind a sample for testing with a friend who goes thru about 3ml of 36 a day and also for those flavors i like that are not strg enough. to the supplier who has it "buyer beware and labelled correctly and with child proof caps no dropper supplied" and the contract agreement is a good start. also even send it in smaller bottles and by request only not listed on your site" that way not only does the buyer have to order thur email which would consent to the contract but also give you a final change to store the warnings sent to them. "
I'd love a government that would leave me the 'ell alone. I'm one hundred percent for personal freedom, personal rights as long as practicing those right don't impact others.
What is scary is that disclaimers and legalese don't stop the lawyers. It's all about convincing a jury that someone's product harmed you. I think the original poster has the right to sell any nicotine level they want. Myself? I would be petrified of the "stupids".
I'm not calling any member that wants the product or have already placed orders for the product stupid.
If anyone buys this, report back and let me know if it kills ants? OK?
What is scary is that disclaimers and legalese don't stop the lawyers. It's all about convincing a jury that someone's product harmed you. I think the original poster has the right to sell any nicotine level they want. Myself? I would be petrified of the "stupids".
I'm not calling any member that wants the product or have already placed orders for the product stupid.
If anyone buys this, report back and let me know if it kills ants? OK?
You can't have it both ways. You want "a government that would leave me the 'ell alone. I'm one hundred percent for personal freedom, personal rights as long as practicing those right don't impact others" YET you want this thread shut down so people dont know of this liquid and you want the supplier to quit selling it!!
You can't say you want freedom to do as you wish and then take someone elses freedom away!!
"... It's all about convincing a jury that someone's product harmed you..."
They will be looking at whether the person with the duty of care (the seller) acted as a responsible person would.
"... I would be petrified of the "stupids"."
My thoughts exactly. I think I can be trusted to be careful and I am reasonably informed of the dangers but some people are just ... well, plain stupid.
I wonder what the FDA and the antis will make of high potency nicotine. Don't forget to think of the children
They will be looking at whether the person with the duty of care (the seller) acted as a responsible person would.
"... I would be petrified of the "stupids"."
My thoughts exactly. I think I can be trusted to be careful and I am reasonably informed of the dangers but some people are just ... well, plain stupid.
I wonder what the FDA and the antis will make of high potency nicotine. Don't forget to think of the children
Reading comprehension courses are available for only $29.95. Wait there's more!
The reason I wanted this thread shut down was because the original poster calculated the nicotine content wrong. This shines a very poor light on the unregulated selling of liquids. I was glad to hear that the original poster was not making or mixing this juice on their own. I was trying to be polite and not embarrass the OP.
". Don't forget to think of the children
I am so sick of this phrase!! I will have to research and find the link, there was a video that was done showing a child getting a nicotine substitute that was stored next to candy. Their big thing was what about the children! It was members of this very forum which critisized them for using the What about the children ploy!! So now you are using the same ploy!
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