Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[puffon]

anybody around who read those 499 pages? my connection is too slow to download the pdf but i thought i had seen mention that ads for vapor products will be banned and that means ecf is losing the means to carry our servers, no?

and that might explain sj's very depressing post ....

Was wondering the same.
Just when we need ECF the most.....

 

[Katmar]

I think the recent report by the Royal College of Physicians is going to go far in the rest of this fight. If law suits are initiated, you better believe they will be using this report. I remember back when so many thought we were doomed when the FDA wanted to regulate e cigs as a drug delivery device. Wasn't it JoyTech who took up the battle and won? I think we will see MANY law suits. In the meantime, panic will set in among small businesses and also among a lot of vapers. This is a HUGE industry now. We have more power than we had even 2 years ago. Yes, the FDA ignored our comments and petitions, but I think we stand a good chance if we can get HR2058 passed. I refuse to give up hope, no matter what.

 

[rothenbj]

Were cartos around in 2007?

Simple atomizers back in the day.

 

[WharfRat1976]

anybody around who read those 499 pages? my connection is too slow to download the pdf but i thought i had seen mention that ads for vapor products will be banned and that means ecf is losing the means to carry our servers, no?

and that might explain sj's very depressing post ....

Yes. Scroll back as many quotes from the Rule have been posted here.

It is an ugly ugly read anyway.

 

[Bronze]

You can write whomever you want, but letters to Ben Carson are very unlikely to achieve anything.

Trump will not win, and even if he did, he's no conservative. Hillary and Trump are two sides of the same authoritarian coin.

OK, we'll do it your way and do nothing. That'll really help.

 

[sonicdsl]

I think the recent report by the Royal College of Physicians is going to go far in the rest of this fight. If law suits are initiated, you better believe they will be using this report. I remember back when so many thought we were doomed when the FDA wanted to regulate e cigs as a drug delivery device. Wasn't it JoyTech who took up the battle and won? I think we will see MANY law suits. In the meantime, panic will set in among small businesses and also among a lot of vapers. This is a HUGE industry now. We have more power than we had even 2 years ago. Yes, the FDA ignored our comments and petitions, but I think we stand a good chance if we can get HR2058 passed. I refuse to give up hope, no matter what.

Sottera ("Smoking Anywhere") actually filed the original suit, and were joined by njoy eventually. At some point Sottera dropped out due to bankruptcy, but nJoy finished (and won!) the fight.

 

[mudmanc4]

Were cartos around in 2007?

Simple atomizers back in the day.

True, I believe the carto was not introduced until early mid 2008.
Most everyone was using the original '510', then the carto and 808, 808D, ect....

 

[skoony]

All of the vape gear and liquid in your home will be effectively banned and prohibited by The Final Rule. None of it will adhere to the new Federal Regulations as to manufacturing process, contents or warning labels.

Will the government come into your home and arrest you and seize your property, probably not.

Can the government come into your home and arrest you and seize your property....absolutely.

Can the Fed use prohibited vape gear as probable cause to arrest you if they are looking to make other charges, sure, why not.

The reason nothing will be grandfathered is so you cannot claim you bought it after the regulations were in place. What a mess.

Wharf, i haven't read the whole document yet. Could you post the part that makes it clear
at home DIY product will be prohibited. Does this include existed at home supplies/
Regards
Mike

 

[WharfRat1976]

Ok, this comment on an article caught my attention. What IS this person talking about??

It's a PMTA which is the paperwork and application needed to file to get FDA approval to manufacture something as small as a coil. An SE is another route to get approval. If the device or whatever is SIGNIFICANTLY EQUIVALENT to a device or liquid already approved by the FDA then that device can apply for SE approval which theoretically will be a less expensive and arduous process to get approval.

Knowing our government, rest assured that Avenue is pure BS.

 

[mudmanc4]

OK, we'll do it your way and do nothing. That'll really help.

We are all on the same page here you know. A politician is no more than someone who is attempting to procure a higher pecking order.
They come in many forms. And always, but always posses the ability to play with minds on a mass scale, otherwise, we do not hear from them, or about them.

They would each, individually sell anyone down the road, to raise their status.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Wharf, i haven't read the whole document yet. Could you post the part that makes it clear
at home DIY product will be prohibited. Does this include existed at home supplies/
Regards
Mike

Mike, it does not say that specifically but it will simply regulate any nic and flavor and made eliquid. I thought I posted the section that dealt with current vape shops that sell and make DIY from their shoppes. It addresses those specifically putting them under what will eventually be clean room regulation which will end them all. None of them will be able to adhere to the regs.

For us home do it yourselfers, I do not know of it will be the equivalent of having a still in your basement and mashing in corn to make prohibited liquor[emoji12]

 

[Katya]

OK, I'm tuning out for the rest of the night.

This has been an epic 9 year adventure, but it seems that it's all coming to a close. Very sad days indeed.

We knew this was coming, but now it has, I can't quite believe it.

Oh, Oliver. It is a sad day. Your forum has been my lifeline for 6.5 years. The war is not over yet. We just lost a battle, but we'll prevail, eventually. You know what W. Churchill said about us Americans? "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." I want to believe that it still holds true...

Don't give up yet! Can ECF survive without advertisements?

 

[Marc411]

They would each, individually sell anyone down the road, to raise their status.

I would add: or line their pockets

 

[Katya]

If the device or whatever is SIGNIFICANTLY EQUIVALENT to a device or liquid already approved by the FDA then that device can apply for SE approval which theoretically will be a less expensive and arduous process to get approval.

The problem is that it's the FDA that will be deciding if the product is SIGNIFICANTLY EQUIVALENT... Catch 22?

 

[skoony]

Mike, it does not say that specifically but it will simply regulate any nic and flavor. I thought I posted the section that dealt with current vape shops that sell and make DIY from their shoppes. It addresses those specifically putting them under what will eventually be clean room regulation which will end them all.

Thanks. I was aware of the B&M restrictions. I am concerned with product
made at home for personal use.
Regards
mike

 

[DC2]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here...

Once the deeming regulations are published, Congress can vote to derail them.
If Congress does nothing, the published regulations become law.

 

[pennysmalls]

It's a PMTA which is the paperwork and application needed to file to get FDA approval to manufacture something as small as a coil. An SE is another route to get approval. If the device or whatever is SIGNIFICANTLY EQUIVALENT to a device or liquid already approved by the FDA then that device can apply for SE approval which theoretically will be a less expensive and arduous process to get approval.

Knowing our government, rest assured that Avenue is pure BS.

Wait, what I got from that persons quote was that he was saying that just by being approved through PMTA a vape product can then become a predicate product itself. I'm already familiar with what you replied with but this idea that approval will give predicate status is something I've not heard before.

Am I missing something? Isn't the predicate product supposed to be some mysterious something or other from 2006 the FDA found?

 

[WharfRat1976]

Thanks. I was aware of the B&M restrictions. I am concerned with product
made at home for personal use.
Regards
mike

Yep. I'm not worried about it. I am not going to sell any, that's for sure.

 

[WharfRat1976]

The guy in the TV spot said nothing kicks in for 2 years. I am not 100% on that as of yet. Hopefully that is the case.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Wait, what I got from that persons quote was that he was saying that just by being approved through PMTA a vape product can then become a predicate product itself. I'm already familiar with what you replied with but this idea that approval will give predicate status is something I've not heard before.

Am I missing something? Isn't the predicate product supposed to be some mysterious something or other from 2006 the FDA found?

FEB 15, 2007 is the predicate date. Cartos and blus. You won't find a DNA200 anywhere.[emoji12]