Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[VNeil]

It would have been extremely easy to make "kits" that the customer could then put together at home. Claiming this would have been rare? Ummm, no. Would have been a perfect loophole to exploit.

You do a good job carrying their water. I could similarly argue that coca cola should be sold to adults only because a 12 YO might buy some and spike it with his father's rum. Which I'm sure happens every day. Laws based on what might happen is tyranny.

 

[VNeil]

It would have been extremely easy to make "kits" that the customer could then put together at home. Claiming this would have been rare? Ummm, no. Would have been a perfect loophole to exploit.

In addition, if a kit that included concentrated nic were made up then the nic would be controlled as a tobacco product. The nic free juice is just a simple mix of consumer products available anywhere. The justification for controlling nic free juice is quite poor except they want to and they can and they dare you to fight it

 

[Eskie]

I said something like this before but I can't find the post. The FDA is being pretty dumb with their regs. The "foundational approach" is inherently flawed because the foundation appears quite structurally weak right out of the gate. Foundations are supposed to strongly support future construction. It's just not the case here. They can't even coherently answer the most basic but important questions and we're just getting started.

You build a strong foundation when you wish to support future construction. Why go to all that trouble when you're hoping to make the construction go away?

 

[VNeil]

In addition, if a kit that included concentrated nic were made up then the nic would be controlled as a tobacco product. The nic free juice is just a simple mix of consumer products available anywhere. The justification for controlling nic free juice is quite poor except they want to and they can and they dare you to fight it

And don't forget... Although you might think otherwise now, the FDA has no authority over what you do in your bedrooms and kitchens.

 

[Lessifer]

In addition, if a kit that included concentrated nic were made up then the nic would be controlled as a tobacco product. The nic free juice is just a simple mix of consumer products available anywhere. The justification for controlling nic free juice is quite poor except they want to and they can and they dare you to fight it

Trying to explain their logic is not the same as defending it, or believing that it rings true.

 

[VNeil]

Trying to explain their logic is not the same as defending it, or believing that it rings true.

My point was only that there is no loophole to close. What they are doing is quite illogical because they are trying to break new ground in stretching intended use of basic harmless and all FDA approved products to hold them to regulations not at all unlike pharmaceuticals. It is a stretch I hope some court overthrows but I'm not optimistic

 

[Lessifer]

My point was only that there is no loophole to close. What they are doing is quite illogical because they are trying to break new ground in stretching intended use of basic harmless and all FDA approved products to hold them to regulations not at all unlike pharmaceuticals. It is a stretch I hope some court overthrows but I'm not optimistic

Well, that IS why they redefined intended use last year. These things need to be challenged.

 

[DC2]

Or, the Warning may be a User Alert that using the Cap in one orientation does Not Provide any CRP.

I think zoidMan might get the chicken dinner here.

unless, as has been discussed multiple times on this forum(facepalm) people see that as a possible workaround to the regs. Shops sell 0nic, you add your own.

This is exactly what I'm going to do when I go back to using nicotine.
I'm going to buy zero nicotine liquid and add my own nicotine.

Most of the liquids you buy have WAY too much flavor anyway, so all is good.
As for DIY, I'll do everything I can to avoid it, and will only go there kicking and screaming.

 

[Lessifer]

I think zoidMan might get the chicken dinner here.


This is exactly what I'm going to do when I go back to using nicotine.
I'm going to buy zero nicotine liquid and add my own nicotine.

Most of the liquids you buy have WAY too much flavor anyway, so all is good.
As for DIY, I'll do everything I can to avoid it, and will only go there kicking and screaming.

The idea of regulating based on intended use is pretty ridiculous, but the idea that some do intend to use it that way is not.

 

[DC2]

The idea of regulating based on intended use is pretty ridiculous, but the idea that some do intend to use it that way is not.

While I want to agree, I'm not sure I can.
I don't know that there are more than a few hundred folks that fit that category.

I might use it that way in the future...
But keep in mind that I am an outlier when it comes to most things vaping.

--I may never have been addicted to nicotine
--I no longer CURRENTLY even use nicotine anymore
--I love dripping and have never found it to be a hassle
--I go through less than 2ml per day
--I am going to be the last human on earth using a 510 atomizer
--I don't need clouds
--I don't believe nicotine by itself is all that addictive
--I fully intend to use nicotine again in the future

I try my best to understand the rest of you though.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Intended use, what a crock. It's like in that FDA webinar that I watched where that one lady only gave the actual wording in the Deeming of "intended use" to answer any question thrown at her. It was worthless double talk babble aimed at not answering anything. I can't repeat the explicates here that I muttered every time she talked.

 

[zoiDman]

I think zoidMan might get the chicken dinner here.

...

BBQ-ed Please.

With a Hot n' Spicy Pineapple Brown Sugar Glaze.

 

[Lessifer]

While I want to agree, I'm not sure I can.
I don't know that there are more than a few hundred folks that fit that category.

I do, but keep in mind that I am an outlier when it comes to most things vaping.

--I may never have been addicted to nicotine
--I no longer CURRENTLY even use nicotine anymore
--I love dripping and have never found it to be a hassle
--I go through less than 2ml per day
--I am going to be the last human on earth using a 510 atomizer
--I don't need clouds
--I don't believe nicotine by itself is all that addictive
--I fully intend to use nicotine again in the future

I try my best to understand the rest of you though.

I would have agreed with you previously, but apparently there are swaths of vapers who think this is normal, since their shops have been doing this for them.

 

[DC2]

With a Hot n' Spicy Pineapple Brown Sugar Glaze.

I think I'm going to need that recipe.
And yeah, I'm serious.

 

[VNeil]

While I want to agree, I'm not sure I can.
I don't know that there are more than a few hundred folks that fit that category.

I might use it that way in the future...
But keep in mind that I am an outlier when it comes to most things vaping.

--I may never have been addicted to nicotine
--I no longer CURRENTLY even use nicotine anymore
--I love dripping and have never found it to be a hassle
--I go through less than 2ml per day
--I am going to be the last human on earth using a 510 atomizer
--I don't need clouds
--I don't believe nicotine by itself is all that addictive
--I fully intend to use nicotine again in the future

I try my best to understand the rest of you though.

The important point is that intended use is a very dangerous and unprecedented intrusion into our lives and homes. Regulating what we do with previously approved products we buy

 

[DC2]

I would have agreed with you previously, but apparently there are swaths of vapers who think this is normal, since their shops have been doing this for them.

Are you talking about shops adding it for them?
And am I talking about customers adding it themselves?

I may be getting confused here.
So I just want to get us back on the same page.

 

[choochoogranny]

The regulations seems to cover the "act" of vaping whether or not you're using nicotine. The only time it's okay for white fluffy floaty stuff coming from your mouth is during cold weather.

The OTC nicotine NRT's are okay to use any time, any where, and however long you want. Their main advantage to the FDA is you can't see them being used for the most part........Plus, of course, the increase of the pharmaceuticals' bottom lines.

 

[DC2]

The regulations seems to cover the "act" of vaping whether or not you're using nicotine. The only time it's okay for white fluffy floaty stuff coming from your mouth is during cold weather.

The OTC nicotine NRT's are okay to use any time, any where, and however long you want. Their main advantage to the FDA is you can't see them being used for the most part........Plus, of course, the increase of the pharmaceuticals' bottom lines.

[/THREAD]
[/FORUM]

 

[VNeil]

I would have agreed with you previously, but apparently there are swaths of vapers who think this is normal, since their shops have been doing this for them.

That is simply in house mixing and unrelated to whatever consumers do once they leave the shop

 

[Lessifer]

Are you talking about shops adding it for them?
And am I talking about customers adding it themselves?

I may be getting confused here.
So I just want to get us back on the same page.

Yes, and Yes. Did I Clear that Up?

sorry, little joke.
I'm saying, if a shop has been selling people 0 nic and adding nic for them for years, it's not hard for me to imagine them continuing to sell them 0 nic and nic base, or just selling the 0 nic, and then the customers finding their own nic base.

I'm not saying it makes sense as a basis for regulation, just that it's not completely outside the realm of probability.