Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Racehorse]

I don't know what the net effect of BT involvement is, but this is an irrelevant question because imo there wouldn't even be a HR2058 or Cole-Bishop if it wasn't for BT involvement.

Whether HR2058 or Cole-Bishop is a Christmas Tree Ornament amendment or not, remains to be seen.
(that is what they call all these small lagnaippe amendments that are tacked on to larger bills).

FY2017 Appropriations Bill on Agriculture being where the FDA gets it's budget, is rather important to the cigar industry at present. Premium cigar companies like J.C. Newman want to keep making domestic cigars. And yes, they are big enough and old enough (America's oldest family owned premium cigar maker, 4 generations since 1895) to garner some serious respect with lawmakers, etc. (so Mazinny is correct....they have clout). The cigar industry obviously wants to change the predicate date as well as get an exemption for premium cigars and that is what is listed in the changes to the appropriations bill.

Make no mistake, w/out the cigar industry I don't think these lagniappe changes would have appeared in the bill. They aren't expecting any movement on the appropriations bill til after the election. "They could pass the individual bill, they could pass the Omnibus, or they could pass a continuing resolution to temporarily fund the various things included in the Agricultural bill............."

The cigar industry, like the vapor industry, is also bringing lawsuits. Of course, a lawsuit w/out getting an injunction granted is rather useless and does nothing to stop the regulating process.

The good news: The cigar and pipe tobacco industry actually have it a bit worse in many respects, since they will have User Fees now that they are being regulated. vaping products don't have those, and won't since the FDA does not believe they legally have the authority to impose user fees on e-cigarettes/vapor products since they were not one of the six categories explicitly named by Congress.

Some feel that BT's involvement might be a Bad Thing.

Doesn't matter what people think. There is reality, then there is opinion.

P.S. I do quite a lot of reading on cigars. These cigars sites are unbeleivably well organized and the information on regulation, soup to nuts, is well-enumerated on many of the sites. It really is a powerful group.

Not paying attention to what is going on in the Cigar and Pipe tobacco industry with regard to the regs (they are essentially going thru the same process) is short-sighted if you ask me.

 

[seminolewind]

Well, really more vapers than you think. But I don't know how serious. The number of smokers that became vapers scared the .... out of BT. If vaping wasn't going anywhere, we wouldn't be having a problem.

I have seriously converted 5 family members and 2 friends.
I wonder if we could qualify for a class action suit?

 

[seminolewind]

Whether HR2058 or Cole-Bishop is a Christmas Tree Ornament amendment or not, remains to be seen.
(that is what they call all these small lagnaippe amendments that are tacked on to larger bills).

FY2017 Appropriations Bill on Agriculture being where the FDA gets it's budget, is rather important to the cigar industry at present. Premium cigar companies like J.C. Newman want to keep making domestic cigars. And yes, they are big enough and old enough (America's oldest family owned premium cigar maker, 4 generations since 1895) to garner some serious respect with lawmakers, etc. (so Mazinny is correct....they have clout). The cigar industry obviously wants to change the predicate date as well as get an exemption for premium cigars and that is what is listed in the changes to the appropriations bill.

Make no mistake, w/out the cigar industry I don't think these lagniappe changes would have appeared in the bill. They aren't expecting any movement on the appropriations bill til after the election. "They could pass the individual bill, they could pass the Omnibus, or they could pass a continuing resolution to temporarily fund the various things included in the Agricultural bill............."

The cigar industry, like the vapor industry, is also bringing lawsuits. Of course, a lawsuit w/out getting an injunction granted is rather useless and does nothing to stop the regulating process.

The good news: The cigar and pipe tobacco industry actually have it a bit worse in many respects, since they have User Fees. Vaping products don't have those, and won't since the FDA does not believe they legally have the authority to impose user fees on e-cigarettes/vapor products since they were not one of the six categories explicitly named by Congress.

It's like everything can be labeled derived from or related to tobacco , but the rules are really twisted to keep BT at the top. If my grandmother is vaping in a rocking chair, does that mean the rocking chair is related or derived from from tobacco?

This is all so screwy and so blatantly ridiculous that my grandkids, ages 13 and 16 can't believe they think all vaping devices and products are tobacco derived. I would love to walk into court with some food flavoring, glycerin, batteries and ask the judge if we all really thing these are derived from tobacco and must follow the regulations of tobacco .

 

[bnrkwest]

This is also what happens when you try to regulate a piece of technology as if it were a plant.

Perfect! That is the problem.

 

[MyMagicMist]

I don't accept it. You voted, nothing changed, and now you're fed up and calling it quits? I'm sorry, but not voting isn't an effective political statement. The preservation of liberty requires more than voting or not voting. Much more.

Well I did briefly serve in the armed forces. I made a commitment to lay my life down for preserving freedom. I would not for liberty, because liberty is defined as asking permission. I do not ask permission, I'm American, I'm free. Despite my commitment, I was let go of my duties in the armed services. My commitment remains within myself, yet I no longer feel obligated to serve for those what allow crooks to murder and steal in our good names without giving us remedy or course to alter that save for bloodshed. I'll protect myself and family, maybe a few neighbors and friends. Beyond that I'm not obligated, at least so said my government.

 

[bigdancehawk]

The FDA's reply brief is due today. I believe it's limited to 25 pages. That will probably be the end of the briefing. Oral argument is scheduled for Oct. 19, iirc.

 

[Semiretired]

The FDA's reply brief is due today. I believe it's limited to 25 pages. That will probably be the end of the briefing. Oral argument is scheduled for Oct. 19, iirc.

25 page sounds readable...

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

The FDA's reply brief is due today. I believe it's limited to 25 pages. That will probably be the end of the briefing. Oral argument is scheduled for Oct. 19, iirc.

You recall right.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[bigdancehawk]

Well I did briefly serve in the armed forces. I made a commitment to lay my life down for preserving freedom. I would not for liberty, because liberty is defined as asking permission. I do not ask permission, I'm American, I'm free. Despite my commitment, I was let go of my duties in the armed services. My commitment remains within myself, yet I no longer feel obligated to serve for those what allow crooks to murder and steal in our good names without giving us remedy or course to alter that save for bloodshed. I'll protect myself and family, maybe a few neighbors and friends. Beyond that I'm not obligated, at least so said my government.

I don't agree with your definition of liberty nor with your attempt to differentiate it from freedom. Others have tried to draw a fine rhetorical line between the two, but I find those attempts to be largely concocted and unpersuasive. The Founders pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor in the cause of liberty. The Declaration of Independence is not a plea for permission.

 

[jpasint]

I don't agree with your definition of liberty nor with your attempt to differentiate it from freedom. Others have tried to draw a fine rhetorical line between the two, but I find those attempts to be largely concocted and unpersuasive. The Founders pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor in the cause of liberty. The Declaration of Independence is not a plea for permission.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

Did 7 years in the military and I'd do again. When you decide to join to defend your country, its a given that you're defending the good AND the bad people that live here.
That means you're defending corrupt politicians as well, unfortunately.

 

[coldgin96]

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

Did 7 years in the military and I'd do again. When you decide to join to defend your country, its a given that you're defending the good AND the bad people that live here.
That means you're defending corrupt politicians as well, unfortunately.

Yeah, well, thank God young boys out of high school, whose parents aren't rich enough to send them to college, aren't forced to go die for some other people on foreign soil against their will anymore. That's just plain bull.

I joined the military VOLUNTARILY for patriotic reasons but would've burned a draft card. No one forced anyone to fight in the 1st American Revolution. You're not fighting for freedom when you are forced to do it.

 

[retired1]

Let's get back on topic please. If you want to discuss the merits of the draft vs volunteer force, take it to Outside.

 

[coldgin96]

Let's get back on topic please. If you want to discuss the merits of the draft vs volunteer force, take it to Outside.

 

[mikepetro]

John F. Kennedy CV67 VAW-126 1978-1982
I did my part to defend this country, and I have earned my right to vape!

I vape, I vote, I earned it!!!!!!

 

[bigdancehawk]

25 page sounds readable...

Ha! Wait 'til you read it. I have a PACER account so I've just downloaded it. I'm going to try to attach it. Let's see if it works.

 

[retired1]

It's amazing how they claim "we don't know" in one response, and then become the all knowing experts and know all about it in the next.

I so want to be the fly on the wall when the judge reads all this.

 

[zoiDman]

Ha! Wait 'til you read it. I have a PACER account so I've just downloaded it. I'm going to try to attach it. Let's see if it works.

Thank You for posting the FDA's Reply.

I'm Not Sure I have the Stomach to Read it right now. But Thank You again for Posting it.

 

[Semiretired]

Ha! Wait 'til you read it. I have a PACER account so I've just downloaded it. I'm going to try to attach it. Let's see if it works.

Its all round speak. Twisting and navigating around the plaintiff remarks. If this is best that those high priced lawyers can come up with - I hope that the judge is smart enough to see through it.

 

[Bronze]

 

[classwife]

Page 18 of 34
But also reads page 10

" But adolescent usage of e-cigarettes is skyrocketing—by 2014, they had overtaken conventional
cigarettes as the most widely used tobacco product among youth."


Good Lord ! People should be yelling HALLELUJAH !!!!

They aren't picking up cigarettes !!!!!