Older Folks and Vaping Front Porch - Part Four

[LittleBird]

Best to read it in small sections, and skip over non-relevant parts. So far, my reading indicates some reasonable compromises. As I predicted, it is not going to kill the industry.

I think that's right, but I'm not sure the compromises are quite so reasonable. Hard to know what's really relevant; sometimes those irrelevant sentences come back to haunt... My greatest concern continues to revolve around the predicate date. Evidently, someone at FDA found a device that goes back to 2006. Cynthia from Sfata referenced that device in her mention of the FDA's failure to change the predicate date. The correlation isn't intuitively obvious to me, so I'm waiting for clarification.

 

[Kaezziel]

Tweety is fine, thank you very much!

I'm trying to decide whether to download the 449 pages of the deeming regs or wait for a synopsis. The comments on vaping.com are coming, but slowly ...

{{{{{{{{{{Birdy!!!}}}}}}}}}} There you are!! Been worried 'bout ya. Thought I was gonna have to send out my minions to check in on ya!

 

[3mg Meniere]

I sent a message about the defective Kayfun base late Friday. I placed an order for another five conversion sets early today (got 10% off). Just hoping they honor the complaint, and pop a replacement into the received order in time, before it goes out. Otherwise I would accept a credit, I guess.

I put the order on hold, and they promised that quality control will catch that defect from now on. Glad I did that hold. They gave me a partial gift certificate, since it is still usable. Satisfaction. Did have to take a picture using a friend's phone. My Chinglish is not adequate, I guess.

 

[3mg Meniere]

My greatest concern continues to revolve around the predicate date.

There is plenty of time to get products currently on the market OK'd, and that appears to be an easy process. Products that are essentially the same as other products do not have to go through a separate process.

 

[Debadoo]

Spring has sprung little bird spotted on the front porch.

Jup, and I didn't miss it this year!! On the way to the airport I saw my bluebonnets, and last night had my first strawberry shortcake!!!

The deeming regs were announced this morning. The predicate date is still 4/2007. I'm wondering if that hasn't changed because the House hasn't yet voted on the Ag Appropriations Bill. Short of reading the full document, it's hard to know what's in ... It appears that it's a 90 day wait period before they go into effect. 0 Nic juice isn't covered, as best as the Sfata person could ascertain. I just ordered another liter of 100mg Nic.

On a more upbeat note, the Governor of CA didn't sign the new tax bill.

yeah I'd had to edit, soon as I posted, I refreshed a page and found the notice thread at the top of each page. 90 days?? Gillian Eva Golden had commented on Vaping.com that 24 months and 30 days from now it will all look very different so I thought it was a year to implementation.

Must get nic, must get nic, must get nic. I saw that RTSvapes has a liter of 300mg that would come out to 48.00 a liter (plus pg cost) to break it down to 100mg. Also found inexpensive 32 oz amber boston rounds at glass bottle outlet with very reasonable shipping!!

 

[MikeADore]

There is plenty of time to get products currently on the market OK'd, and that appears to be an easy process. Products that are essentially the same as other products do not have to go through a separate process.

From what I'm reading, though, the process will be horrendously expensive. So much so that most manufacturers won't even be able to attempt it. As USA Today reported this morning, the new regulations add up to a virtual ban of e-cigarettes. Put simply, these regulations as presented are a disaster for the vaping industry.

Feds announce final e-cigarette rule that nearly bans them

 

[MikeADore]

Here's the financial whammy in the rules:

"That means nearly every e-cigarette on the market — and every different flavor and nicotine level — would require a separate application for federal approval. Each application could cost $1 million or more, says Jeff Stier, an e-cigarette advocate with the National Center for Public Policy Research and industry officials."

 

[MikeADore]

E-Cigarette Forum ‎@ecigaretteforum
@FDATobacco It's a de-facto ban. The reality is that most of the products on the market will be removed through high regulatory burdens.

9:59 AM - 5 May 2016

 

[LittleBird]

There is plenty of time to get products currently on the market OK'd, and that appears to be an easy process. Products that are essentially the same as other products do not have to go through a separate process.

3mg, I'm not meaning to be argumentative. Please don't take my comments as such.

The predicate date currently is 2/15/07. Per cursory analyses by Smokey Joe (Oliver Kershaw), Cynthia Cabrera and Michael Siegal, it is highly unlikely that products currently on the market (except for cigalikes) will meet the substantial equivalence test. The time per PMTA, according to revised estimates by FDA, is 1500 hours, at a cost north of $1mm per product. Further, the window is two years, but FDA can pull products off the market if they (FDA) fail to timely review an application - e.g., within 12 months following the two years. BT, on the other hand, may be able to use -- get this-- cigarettes in their SE applications! The jury is out on "accessories," which appear to be defined ambiguously.

IMO, and only mine, it is critical that HR2058 or the Appropriations Bill is passed. Without a change to the predicate date, the industry will be decimated.

 

[3mg Meniere]

3mg, I'm not meaning to be argumentative. Please don't take my comments as such.


IMO, and only mine, it is critical that HR2058 or the Appropriations Bill is passed. Without a change to the predicate date, the industry will be decimated.

I agree with the change to the predicate date. I refuse to get alarmist about it, because I don't have the money to stock up on nic. If all else fails, I can go to 0 nic when I run out, or find alternate means of getting nic for my minimal consumption level. I got the equipment to last a long time.

 

[LittleBird]

I agree with the change to the predicate date. I refuse to get alarmist about it, because I don't have the money to stock up on nic. If all else fails, I can go to 0 nic when I run out, or find alternate means of getting nic for my minimal consumption level. I got the equipment to last a long time.

Yup. Alarmist=stress=bad news for LB. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[LittleBird]

Dr. Michael Siegel's blog on this morning's announcement. Worth reading.
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: FDA E-Cigarette Deeming Regulations are a Disaster for Public Health

 

[MikeE3]

BT, on the other hand, may be able to use -- get this-- cigarettes in their SE applications!

ummm - what? That's nuts!

 

[Semiretired]

I don't have the money to stock up on nic.

Even if you did - how much will be enough? Will it really store forever?

 

[garyoa1]

Well, when it gets to the point where there'z a 7 in your age... and... it's on da left side... could be a week is overkill.
Just sayin

 

[3mg Meniere]

Even if you did - how much will be enough? Will it really store forever?

Most of us on this thread really don't have much problem with laying by a lifetime supply, even at TJ's estimation of 100 years. Buy a liter, pop it in the freezer will probably be good for that long-- maybe a bit of degradation, but not much. Even now, I doubt that I would be able to notice a difference between 3mg and 2mg

And, besides, we can write our nic supply into our wills (@Uncle Willie). Selling will be illegal, but they can't touch inheritance.

 

[garyoa1]

FDA Cracks Down on E-Cigarettes

 

[Myrany]

Dangit I disappear for a couple of days due to continued computer problems and this happens.

Well 1 more liter of nic and I undoubtably have a lifetime supply. Its hardware I worry about. How long can I keep it going. Being non mechanically inclined I just am not so sure how well I would do making my own mods and drippers.

 

[Semiretired]

Well 1 more liter of nic and I undoubtably have a lifetime supply. Its hardware I worry about. How long can I keep it going. Being non mechanically inclined I just am not so sure how well I would do making my own mods and drippers.

Yep, hardware is my big unkown also - I have tried my best to keep all my stuff interrelated and rebuildable to assist, but there is still an unknown remaining... I guess I could always buy 3 blem Provari's and put them in a drawer - the electronics should not go bad just sitting there...

 

[Myrany]

Yep, hardware is my big unkown also - I have tried my best to keep all my stuff interrelated and rebuildable to assist, but there is still an unknown remaining... I guess I could always buy 3 blem Provari's and put them in a drawer - the electronics should not go bad just sitting there...

I run mostly mechs so it isn't really the mod that scares me it is the toppers. Drippers and tanks and such that have me worried. I see some big fasttech orders in my future.

My IGO=Ls from fasttech are still going strong at 3 years old and the subtank mini parts I picked up are rock solid.