Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Str8vision]

Because of the performance benefits it provides, I enjoy using PGA (ethanol, ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol) as an extraction solvent. It's relatively inexpensive where I'm at (< $18 per liter) but if the taxes were much higher I doubt I'd continue buying it. Alternatively, Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol can be used but must be totally removed (evaporated) from the finished extract because of the government mandated poison that is added to discourage consumption. A low grade watered down alcohol (like 100 proof Vodka) could be vacuum distilled to yield a much higher alcohol content. A bit of effort is involved but anyone that's mechanically inclined could setup a makeshift vacuum distillation rig pretty cheaply. I've inadvertently boiled an ethanol based extract while vacuum filtering so it isn't difficult to do, I was only using a $27 12vdc vacuum pump and canning jars at the time. Of course there isn't anything wrong with just using PG or a blended PG/VG solvent to extract with, it's a bit gunky but tastes just fine, a lot less troublesome than deriving PGA from a 50/50 alcohol/water base.

 

[rolf]

good stuff guys !
interested to know which states you can get pga .
if not I will ceep looking on you tube how to build a still . the one I saw ...his first run (after fusel )was 130 proof.
so vacuum is probably needed . the vacuum I already have is made from a refridgeration compressor . used it to cure resin castings to get the bubbles out.
so one way or another ..ill get there !
any links ?

 

[gt_1955]

I have used ISO before, and the taste is OK, but somewhat muted. Might be able to compensate by increasing the flavor. You might like to run a test batch before going ahead with your other option.

Just one question, how did you ensure all ISO was removed? Just by boiling and noting the level I assume.

Because of the performance benefits it provides, I enjoy using PGA (ethanol, ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol) as an extraction solvent. It's relatively inexpensive where I'm at (< $18 per liter) but if the taxes were much higher I doubt I'd continue buying it. Alternatively, Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol can be used but must be totally removed (evaporated) from the finished extract because of the government mandated poison that is added to discourage consumption. A low grade watered down alcohol (like 100 proof Vodka) could be vacuum distilled to yield a much higher alcohol content. A bit of effort is involved but anyone that's mechanically inclined could setup a makeshift vacuum distillation rig pretty cheaply. I've inadvertently boiled an ethanol based extract while vacuum filtering so it isn't difficult to do, I was only using a $27 12vdc vacuum pump and canning jars at the time. Of course there isn't anything wrong with just using PG or a blended PG/VG solvent to extract with, it's a bit gunky but tastes just fine, a lot less troublesome than deriving PGA from a 50/50 alcohol/water base.

I have time on my hands now due to being recently retrenched, and being in a low employment area and being >60yo I am not likely to find work. In a previous life, I was a toolmaker so rigging something up will, or should, not be difficult.

The big attraction in using vacuum distillation is having it boil at a lower temperature, not critical with extracting the PGA from the vodka, but may aid in maintaining the flavour during final reduction (and recovering the PGA is an added bonus )

I have previously extracted using a PG/VG mix as the medium, and have enough concentrate to make 15L (or approx 15 years) of finished liquid, but I also prefer to use your heated ethanol method due to the different flavour extracted as another concentrate to add to the finished liquid.

Thank you both for your feedback

 

[Exchaner]

Just one question, how did you ensure all ISO was removed? Just by boiling and noting the level I assume.

I reduced the ISO to 25% of its original volume and then added an equal or greater amount of pg. Reduced the mixture again to 50%. It is better if you add a bit more pg than the volume of your reduced ISO. That way you won't have to reduce the mixture by exactly 50%. A little less will do.

As to possible added poisons, I used 99% ISO and nothing on the label mentioned a possible poison/additive. In fact the safety sheet for ISO does not list any ingredients other than alcohol. I therefore automatically assumed the 1% must be water. I studied the literature extensively to see if ISO is any more toxic than PGA and couldn't find the info. Nor could I find any info about possible contaminants in the manufacture of ISO - except a couple; minute amounts of C3 or C4 molecules responsible for the foul odor - nothing was mentioned about their toxicity.

On a related subject, if you are going with rubbing/denatured alcohol, you might be better off using denatured ethyl alcohol instead of ISO. I have occasionally seen it at CVS. The only concern I have is the tiny amount of Lanolin I have heard is sometimes added to rubbing alcohol.

 

[gt_1955]

I was reading it (ISO warning) in an article about vacuum distillation on one of the essential oils web-sites. It had a list of solvents that could be used, with warnings on each appropriate solvent. Unfortunately, I didn't save the link.

I have access to an industrial chemist (retired) who urged me to remove all traces of ISO in the final product too.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Iso and methanol for some reason, scares me... if I cant drink it.....

 

[Exchaner]

Methanol could definitely be a deadly poison but ISO has been used for a long time for extracting everything from herbs to pharmaceuticals. I recall mentioning that a while back when my local pharmacist said ISO is regularly used by the pharma industry in lipid extractions.

 

[dannyv45]

I reduced the ISO to 25% of its original volume and then added an equal or greater amount of pg. Reduced the mixture again to 50%. It is better if you add a bit more pg than the volume of your reduced ISO. That way you won't have to reduce the mixture by exactly 50%. A little less will do.

As to possible added poisons, I used 99% ISO and nothing on the label mentioned a possible poison/additive. In fact the safety sheet for ISO does not list any ingredients other than alcohol. I therefore automatically assumed the 1% must be water. I studied the literature extensively to see if ISO is any more toxic than PGA and couldn't find the info. Nor could I find any info about possible contaminants in the manufacture of ISO - except a couple; minute amounts of C3 or C4 molecules responsible for the foul odor - nothing was mentioned about their toxicity.

On a related subject, if you are going with rubbing/denatured alcohol, you might be better off using denatured ethyl alcohol instead of ISO. I have occasionally seen it at CVS. The only concern I have is the tiny amount of Lanolin I have heard is sometimes added to rubbing alcohol.

Have you noticed a difference in taste between PGA and ISO such as an off or chemical taste?

 

[Exchaner]

Have you noticed a difference in taste between PGA and ISO such as an off or chemical taste?

There is no chemical taste but the flavor is definitely different from PGA. So is the color, it is somewhat lighter.

 

[gt_1955]

Methanol could definitely be a deadly poison but ISO has been used for a long time for extracting everything from herbs to pharmaceuticals. I recall mentioning that a while back when my local pharmacist said ISO is regularly used by the pharma industry in lipid extractions.

It's widely used in extractions of "other" material as well, again though they strive to eliminate ISO from their final product. Interestingly, their process includes freeze filtering as well to eliminate similar by-products (waxes etc) as we do.

 

[Exchaner]

It's widely used in extractions of "other" material

.....

 

[gt_1955]

.....

When I wanted to clean up my cold macerated extractions I found a site that had a lot of info, unfortunately it didn't translate to tobacco extractions

 

[Exchaner]

Would that be the Reddit? That site even has a vaper's corner.

 

[Str8vision]

It's widely used in extractions of "other" material as well, again though they strive to eliminate ISO from their final product. Interestingly, their process includes freeze filtering as well to eliminate similar by-products (waxes etc) as we do.

If they're freeze filtering, were there any other methods described to reduce oils/waxes etc? Anything we might could use?

 

[gt_1955]

Would that be the Reddit? That site even has a vaper's corner.

No mate, it was a dedicated site. No link will be posted, but you could search for "Polishing extracts"

 

[gt_1955]

If they're freeze filtering, were there any other methods described to reduce oils/waxes etc? Anything we might could use?

I don't think so as their product is oil, but it did have some info on vacuum distillation which I've just revisited in the last couple of days.

 

[Str8vision]

Graham Condenser, IMHO it's better than a Liebig....

 

[usr/]

Graham Condenser, IMHO it's better than a Liebig....

View attachment 524539

I see this becoming essential equipment. Any recommendations on full kits? I've seen them on the cheap but just afraid that's what you'd get.....cheap! That coming from some of the reviews on them.

 

[Str8vision]

There are a few fairly cheap vacuum distillation kits available on Ebay and at Amazon but they seem to come with very short Liebig condensers which could be problematic but I don't really know. A better kit would run upwards of $160 and you'd still need to buy support stands w/soft clamps. Personally I don't like the typical glass lab setup, they're expensive, fragile, can be difficult to "seal" and have limited set-up flexibility. I've attached an illustration of a glass vacuum distillation setup I believe would work for distilling Vodka to yield a higher ethanol content;

I'd replace the air inlet "screw clamp" with a needle valve to control air intake. The "fine capillary" bubbler is important when vacuum distilling alcohol and it's created by inserting a capillary bleed tube in place of the usual thermometer which you don't need if the hot water bath is temperature controlled. As pictured, here's a list of the glassware I believe is involved, all -should- be made of low expansion borosilicate glass except the thermometer adapter which has some plastic/rubber parts;

• 1- vacuum take off adapter 105degree 24/40
• 1- distillation adapter 75degree 24/40
• 1- 500ml 24/40 single neck round bottom flask (could use a larger size)
• 1- 250ml 24/40 single neck round bottom flask (could use a larger size)
• 1- 300mm Liebig condenser 24/40
• 1- thermometer adapter with nylon bushing 24/40
• 1- 7mm capillary bleed tube

You'd also need adjustable support stands w/soft clamps, an 1/8" needle valve, some 1/4" clear vacuum tubing, a vacuum source, an accurate temperature controlled water bath, water pump etc...

Personally, I'd use canning jars rather than round bottom flasks, a Graham condenser is the only ready made glassware I'd buy and I'd look for one made to use with tubing rather than 24/40 joints. I'd likely use an aquarium pump to circulate chilled (cold) water through the condenser. If anyone's interested I could sketch what a "home made" (on the cheap) vacuum distillation setup might look like.

 

[gt_1955]

That ^^ would be most appreciated mate

Ebay ships to Oz, Amazon only sometimes