#500 SS Mesh

[BJ43]

I am a mesh convert. I have only been vaping for about a month. Really enjoy the vision novas (mini and regular). I read on the silica wick concerns, plus feel they give a bad taste at times if vaped to quick. So I tried the candle cotton wick. Worked really well, but feel the candle wick is to thick and still mutes flavor. Went so far as to use a needle to soften it up and pull out strands, worked better but still feel the flavor is off.

Yesterday I got in my Cobra rebuildable atomizer. Made a wick from 400 ss mesh (want to use 500 but gotta wait a bit to order some.) Took awhile to make a coil that didn't pop, until I learned I needed to oxidize the mesh more, now it is working great at about 2.2 ohms. It has a 5/6 wrap, I believe I used stock coil so I am not sure what the gauge is.

So today I thought, what the heck time to try in a mini nova. The first one took a lot of playing with to get the hot spots to go away, now it is working like a champ at 1.7 ohms, again used the stock coil that came with the Cobra so not sure the gauge. Now I just made a second wick from mesh, oxidized, used my 32 awg a-1 kanthal wire and got it running with 7 wraps in less then 15 minutes, got really lucky, and it is coming in at 2.2 ohms.

I really think the mesh right away gives a cleaner taste. It is far more giving when getting the coil to work properly without hot spots, I even trim the mesh more before putting the tank on to not scratch the tank and no issues, maybe a quick move coils again.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone in this thread, it was very helpful.

I do have one question if you are still reading, haha. I love the cobra but do not seem to get as much vapor as I think I would. I am using 60pg/40vg gandalf, with a 5/6 wrapped coil. (EDIT: Forgot to say I am using about 4 to 4.2 volts, will raise more but when I did last it seemed to give a little burned taste.) The stock coil looks about 32 gauge, though not sure. Any suggestions to have more vapor, any other information I can give which may help suggestions?

Thanks

You are experiencing what I have tried to prove, If you want more vaper you have to increase the heating area (wraps). if not as you increase the voltage you reach a point where the concentrated heat on a small heating area burns the juice. 10 watts on 4 wraps is never the same as 10 watts on 8 wraps no matter what gauge wire you use.

 

[the ob]

If I was not afraid, I would go down to a 28g wrap. I do not know why, but that stuff scares me.

 

[LongDraw]

You are experiencing what I have tried to prove, If you want more vaper you have to increase the heating area (wraps). if not as you increase the voltage you reach a point where the concentrated heat on a small heating area burns the juice. 10 watts on 4 wraps is never the same as 10 watts on 8 wraps no matter what gauge wire you use.

So it sounds like going for a 7/8 wrap or so on the cobra would be the best place to start? The higher wraps on the novas are great, produce plenty of vapor. Its not like clouds that I see in videos but does give more then the cobra at this time. Would love to know what the people in some of the videos are using as exact set ups or how they get that much vapor. Personally, I want more flavor and it to work, but still like to have a decent amount of vapor.

 

[BJ43]

If you want more vaper you have to increase the heating area (wraps). if not as you increase the voltage you reach a point where the concentrated heat on a small heating area burns the juice. 10 watts on 4 wraps is never the same as 10 watts on 8 wraps no matter what gauge wire you use.
The Chinese may be cheap but not stupid. The original coils were 10 to 12 wraps of 36/38 gauge. Their original testing proved they needed an adequate heating area to produce good vaper. The good vaper production on DC and TC was that even tho you got low ohms the heating area was doubled or triple the area of a single coil. That large heating area produced the vaper not the ohms. All the ohms does is let you use less voltage.

 

[9ball_AJ]

Very well put BJ, This has always been the way I have thought about it. I put a 9 wrap 32g coil on my Zap and it came in at 3.6 ohms. Even at 6 volts it wasn't quite performing how I wanted. I removed one wrap, and it is perfect at 5.3 volts. My next coil will be 8 or 9 wraps of 30g, I have high hopes.

 

[tmcase]

Would love to know what the people in some of the videos are using as exact set ups or how they get that much vapor. Personally, I want more flavor and it to work, but still like to have a decent amount of vapor.

It's my opinion they are vaping 100% VG and/or not inhaling. Most of the reviewers I've seen don't inhale and I believe it's to make the mod look like it produces way more vaper than it would if you inhale.

 

[BJ43]

So it sounds like going for a 7/8 wrap or so on the cobra would be the best place to start? The higher wraps on the novas are great, produce plenty of vapor. Its not like clouds that I see in videos but does give more then the cobra at this time. Would love to know what the people in some of the videos are using as exact set ups or how they get that much vapor. Personally, I want more flavor and it to work, but still like to have a decent amount of vapor.

Get the amount of vaper you want with wraps then tweak for flavor with voltage. Even .1v can effect flavor, many flavors have different vaper point temperatures than VG or PG.

 

[Jimi D.]

It's my opinion they are vaping 100% VG and/or not inhaling. Most of the reviewers I've seen don't inhale and I believe it's to make the mod look like it produces way more vaper than it would if you inhale.

My video awhile back was vaped with 70/30 pg vg. I'm not related to Bill Clinton, because I love to inhale!

 

[LucidAce]

update.

a couple of things I have learned in the last few days regarding these setups. BTW, BJ, some of what you have told me has FINALLY sunk in.

1st, I find that not quenching or burning juice on my setups has helped. I do the "jack frost" method and they work much better for me. I think when I do the juice burn, and am adjusting the coils, I am knocking off pieces of oxidation, which made it more difficult.

2nd, I am not sure the widest wicks possible are best for the flavor FOR ME. I went down from 100mm to 70mm and the flavor seems to be better. Also instead of rolling as tight as possible from the start, I just rolled it and then squeezed it down as I went. What I was left with after cuting the top off was a wick where there was a hole inside, but not from the bottom because as we know as you roll, the mesh squeezes out of the top and bottom. When I first saw the hole, I was annoyed, but think maybe it acts as a reservoir that actually holds juice in there. Because the bottom is closed shut from the mesh coming out, I do not pull air through like on the ones with the hole from top to bottom. This last one I made worked better from the start. Maybe I stumbled onto something?

the last setup is 70mm with a 30g 5 wrap that is measuring in at 1.2 currently.

of course YMMV.

I think I'm with on the JackFrost method, ob. I think all my previous wicks were way over oxidized and "crustified" which just made them more fragile and lead to shorts showing up every time I started to push more current through the coil. I have no doubt that one can accomplish the same proper level of oxidation on a rolled wick, but having the open sheet makes it easy for me to see what's going on so I can get it oxidized properly. I've only done 1 wick (400 mesh; I promise I'll get to the 500 some day BJ) with this method, but it is proving much more stable than my previous efforts using the 400 woven with the 34g kanthal.

 

[gdeal]

If you want more vaper you have to increase the heating area (wraps). if not as you increase the voltage you reach a point where the concentrated heat on a small heating area burns the juice. 10 watts on 4 wraps is never the same as 10 watts on 8 wraps no matter what gauge wire you use.
The Chinese may be cheap but not stupid. The original coils were 10 to 12 wraps of 36/38 gauge. Their original testing proved they needed an adequate heating area to produce good vaper. The good vaper production on DC and TC was that even tho you got low ohms the heating area was doubled or triple the area of a single coil. That large heating area produced the vaper not the ohms. All the ohms does is let you use less voltage.

BJ - as usual, you are spot on with your words of wisdom. A few days ago, I posted a related question to this in the "Ask the Veterans" section.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ask-veterans/338815-optimal-wattage.html#post7410187

While my question had a slightly different angle, it is directed at a similar point. That using a frame of reference such as "I am vaping at 10 watts..." without the other side of the equation such as over how many coils (or wick length, diameter, etc) is not really that informative to help others understand or try to replicate a good set up.

I was inquiring as to what is the optimal watts per sq lateral surface area of a coiled wick surface. Most of the answers (while greatly appreciated) were focused only on the singular factor of overall wattage.

 

[emonty]

30% VG: plumes!!!

 

[LongDraw]

Get the amount of vaper you want with wraps then tweak for flavor with voltage. Even .1v can effect flavor, many flavors have different vaper point temperatures than VG or PG.

BJ, thank you. This is good to know early on. Will start shooting for 7/8 maybe 8/9 wraps from now on.

Still can't get over the difference between just using mesh, and really like the idea of no longer having to think/worry about burning the material. Have seen people in the thread place cotton and such over the mesh but so far I think I may have found what works best for me. Now just play around with number of wraps.

Thanks again

 

[LongDraw]

It's my opinion they are vaping 100% VG and/or not inhaling. Most of the reviewers I've seen don't inhale and I believe it's to make the mod look like it produces way more vaper than it would if you inhale.

Think I have to agree. Personally, when I vape, it is like I am smoking in the way of holding it in my lungs. The only difference is with vaping I do take longer slower drags.

 

[BJ43]

@ emonty :100 % VG this wick coil is awesome, neighbors complaining.
mushroom cloud - YouTube

 

[BJ43]

Think I have to agree. Personally, when I vape, it is like I am smoking in the way of holding it in my lungs. The only difference is with vaping I do take longer slower drags.

I always double draw. Inhale both and am not satisfied if I it doesn't take two exhales to empty my lungs.

 

[the ob]

bj,

riddle me this.

So I finally stopped fighting you and did one the way you have suggested. 7 wrap 30g on a prover (yes a VV device :

I cannot for the life of me get any of the coils under the fourth from the top to glow. That and the constant E1 and E8 error messages.

thanks !

 

[Semi Reduction]

I have wicks that have been used for months, just washed, scrub with a toothbrush, dry burn and good as new. If the coil goes, scrub the wick and wrap a new coil. I have never flipped one and imagine if for what ever reason it no longer wicks on top then the bottom flipped would be useless in the juice.
I have not had to reoxidize, just drip and burn on a new coil to ck that all wraps are heating.

Nice tip with the toothbrush
I think my problem with wicks needing to be replaced will mostly be to do with surface damage from wrapping 28 and 30g. When they get tatty, I'd be worried that they aren't utilising all the possible surface area between the coil and the wick. Flipping them should be ok in that case as its not the capillary action that is the prob.

 

[BJ43]

bj,

riddle me this.

So I finally stopped fighting you and did one the way you have suggested. 7 wrap 30g on a prover (yes a VV device :

I cannot for the life of me get any of the coils under the fourth from the top to glow. That and the constant E1 and E8 error messages.

thanks !

That means the forth wrap is shorting to the wick and is in effect your neg connection at that point.

 

[C1BERUS]

I have wicks that have been used for months, just washed, scrub with a toothbrush, dry burn and good as new. If the coil goes, scrub the wick and wrap a new coil. I have never flipped one and imagine if for what ever reason it no longer wicks on top then the bottom flipped would be useless in the juice.
I have not had to reoxidize, just drip and burn on a new coil to ck that all wraps are heating.

thank you for the toothbrush trick
I'll try it if my wick goes bad lol...

I just found a trick to make the mesh roll tighter, I try 8 cm mesh to put it on dud 3mm, roll it and it goes out of shape not nice lookin n it got stuck in between the wick hole, I put it on a straw with outer diameter exactly 3mm, I put it slowly with twisting it and put some vg to make it easy to goes in.

after all the mesh goes to the straw, I wrap the coil on the straw to make easier to adjust the space between khantal, insert to the wick hole, place the khantal to + and - and then I remove the straw. I think my method is the same with peter K , using the drill but i change it with a straw n the mesh is already in the straw , which make it a bit easier to line up the khantal n the wick.

i hope you understand my english is bad lol...

 

[BJ43]

thank you for the toothbrush trick
I'll try it if my wick goes bad lol...

I just found a trick to make the mesh roll tighter, I try 8 cm mesh to put it on dud 3mm, roll it and it goes out of shape not nice lookin n it got stuck in between the wick hole, I put it on a straw with outer diameter exactly 3mm, I put it slowly with twisting it and put some vg to make it easy to goes in.

after all the mesh goes to the straw, I wrap the coil on the straw to make easier to adjust the space between khantal, insert to the wick hole, place the khantal to + and - and then I remove the straw. I think my method is the same with peter K , using the drill but i change it with a straw n the mesh is already in the straw , which make it a bit easier to line up the khantal n the wick.

i hope you understand my english is bad lol...

After you remove the straw, how do you get the coil tight on the wick?