Am I the only person who has a problem with ppl making juice in their homes?

[Tangaroav]

Who is talking about Campbell's Soup? That's odd. And no, they don't run extensive testing per can, which is why when it gets contaminated the whole lot is recalled. What does that mean? It wasn't tested to begin with (meaning per can, but that's not customizable made-to-order).

So you have confirmation that all AEMSA vendors have had every one of their flavors/batches tested -- and they all tested free of DA/AP? Okay. Mind boggling.

Do you like to be able to DIY? What makes you qualified to handle such materials? Are you a danger to yourself?

I DIY for myself, I don't sell it .

AEMSA has minimal requirements, they forbid the use of known and already regulated contaminants like DA/AP . Now, it does not have a police to verify, a lot is based on honnor system.

Until something else better is available we better support them, as mentionned earlier, to do nothing is disaster and the alternative will be much worse.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I said enforcement. Rules and regulations are meaningless without enforcement and enforcement is very expensive...

Recall the FDA impounded a shipment of NJoys which started this whole thing.......
Shutting down the devices would be impractical..........shutting down the nicotine would seem easier.

Psssst: Know where I can get a "dime bag of nick"?

 

[stevegmu]

If I were the Big tobacco and Big Pharma many believe them to be, I would have already tested most e-liquid on the market, as well as DIY supplies and would have used the results against re-fillable systems, and in advertising for my products. Odd how that never happened...

 

[stevegmu]

Recall the FDA impounded a shipment of NJoys which started this whole thing.......
Shutting down the devices would be impractical..........shutting down the nicotine would seem easier.

Psssst: Know where I can get a "dime bag of nick"?

They can impound PRC nic for all I care; domestic extraction already exists...

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I bet in Missouri you still have liquid and nobody came and took it away.

I'm over 18 so why would anyone have taken it?

Perhaps I wasn't clear the gov vetoed, the leg overturned so......
Now it is illegal to sell to minors and to tax eliquid like tobacco.

Best of both worlds!
(I doubt the tax thing will last longterm though)

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I can still buy cigarettes, cigars, or loose tobacco with no problems. Sure there are laws and regulations but nobody took my tobacco away did they?? Nope.

And the FDA won't take away your ability to buy cigalikes either (once they are either approved by them or can document they are based on the predicate products available as of Feb 15, 2007)

So it's all good.
"Nothing but blue skies, do I see"

 

[Robino1]

Nah, they won't get rid of cigs, cigars, pipe tobacco. They make too much money from them.

 

[stevegmu]

Nah, they won't get rid of cigs, cigars, pipe tobacco. They make too much money from them.

If that is the case, why would they eliminate a $1.5 billion, mostly untaxed industry? If that were my motive, regulations would be minimal and taxes would be imposed...

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I can still buy cigarettes, cigars, or loose tobacco with no problems. Sure there are laws and regulations but nobody took my tobacco away did they?? Nope.

Not quite sure what this even means.
I didn't see anywhere in the Tobacco Act or FDA proposed regs where they said they were going to outlaw (or take away) cigarettes, cigars, loose tobacco or ban vaping.

So why would you think someone's coming to take your tobacco away?

 

[StarreLabelle]

People call posion control to ask questions very often. I should have also mentioned that the article does not say that the increase in nicotine calls are all about E-liquids. What about people who leave their cigs laying around where a toddler picks them up and chews on them? Or other nicotine containing items like patches or gum.
Personally, I think a child would find gum to be pretty enticing. Although I have not looked up the data I feel it is a safe assumption that more people are trying to quit smoking. So along with e-cigs the above other mentioned cesation tools are being used more frequently. Thus the increase in calls to posion control.
The New York TImes just blaming it all on e-liquids just shows their bias.

Every bottle of eliquid I buy is equipped with a child proof cap; cigarettes aren't. I had 4 kids who all ate my cigarettes when I was smoking. No accidents with any eliquid from anyone I know.

 

[Mr.Mann]

And the FDA won't take away your ability to buy cigalikes either (once they are either approved by them or can document they are based on the predicate products available as of Feb 15, 2007)

So it's all good.
"Nothing but blu skies, do I see"

Edited that for you.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

Robino, with respect I like to respond to your post. All of us can give up smoking if we are truly committed just as others can give up other addictions if they really want to. People including myself vape because we choose to, not because we have to, vaping isn't food or air we need to live.

I don't know whether you ever smoked or not but I appreciate how you made you point so well by using the same words every addict uses when they are confronted with their addiction.

I ____________because I choose to, not because I have to. I can quit at anytime.
You can substitute drink, {other stuff}, do {Other stuff}, ......, smoke, etc.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

Edited that for you.

Nicely played.

Njoyed it thoroughly.

 

[DrMA]

I don't know whether you ever smoked or not but I appreciate how you made you point so well by using the same words every addict uses when they are confronted with their addiction.

I ____________because I choose to, not because I have to. I can quit at anytime.
You can substitute drink, {other stuff}, do {Other stuff}, ......, smoke, etc.

I agree. And even if we could simply "will" ourselves to quit, it would be impossible for many of us to stay quit for any meaningful length of time. So, vaping is really not a "choice" as stated above, but rather an alternative to a much more dangerous delivery method for a legal substance we have the right to use.

 

[AndriaD]

I am not quite sure you understand how taxes work, or business for that matter.
It is up to a vendor to disclose if their product is using ingredients known to be dangerous at certain levels, not the consumer. Regulations, which my taxes help fund, ensure vendors like Suicide Bunny do these tests...

Expecting me to pay for a vendor to test for known dangerous substances is as silly as expecting me to test the water coming into my house...

We did have the water coming into our house tested, and it was lamentable. So now we're paying $125/mo on the note for a $9000 whole-house water purification system -- which we thought was important enough to pay for, because the "public water" standards are simply not good enough, and in cases of emergencies (like floods) cannot be trusted.

You get what you pay for. If you trust "public health" you get what public health thinks is "good enough." My own standards on certain things -- like pure water -- are far higher. As for eliquid? I'm pretty sure it's at least 90%-99% safer than smoking cigarettes, which I did for 39 yrs, and I'm still here. And I don't vape "custard" flavors, though I admit they sound tempting -- but knowing what could well be in them? I'll pass, with no hardship.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Not to drift further off topic (but I will), that's one thing I've tried to impress on some of my co-workers, and it often gets lost in translation. Businesses don't pay salaries, taxes, or fines. Consumers do.

Back on topic, I'd rather see AEMSA be the "regulating" body for e-liquid manufacturers, with the .gov keeping its grubby paws off what little of my life I have to myself. Industry regulation is the way to go, because they tend to be more aware of the needs of business.

Individual retailers should have a choice when it comes to getting certified, and the consumer will vote with his (or her) wallet.

I agree, and since I need the WTA, I have no choice, thanks to the stupid disallowance of WTA by AEMSA, but to buy non-AEMSA for my WTA liquids.

I have no earthly idea why they disallow something so important to so many in staying free of cigarettes and cravings for them, and the various emotional disturbances related to smoking cessation. It makes no sense at all.

Andria

 

[stevegmu]

We did have the water coming into our house tested, and it was lamentable. So now we're paying $125/mo on the note for a $9000 whole-house water purification system -- which we thought was important enough to pay for, because the "public water" standards are simply not good enough, and in cases of emergencies (like floods) cannot be trusted.

You get what you pay for. If you trust "public health" you get what public health thinks is "good enough." My own standards on certain things -- like pure water -- are far higher. As for eliquid? I'm pretty sure it's at least 90%-99% safer than smoking cigarettes, which I did for 39 yrs, and I'm still here. And I don't vape "custard" flavors, though I admit they sound tempting -- but knowing what could well be in them? I'll pass, with no hardship.

Andria

I'd rather have good enough standards than none...

 

[Mr.Mann]

I agree, and since I need the WTA, I have no choice, thanks to the stupid disallowance of WTA by AEMSA, but to buy non-AEMSA for my WTA liquids.

I have no earthly idea why they disallow something so important to so many in staying free of cigarettes and cravings for them, and the various emotional disturbances related to smoking cessation. It makes no sense at all.

Andria

Cause they have't a real clue about it. Sad. And when they came to be, there was but one WTA vendor, so they were actually blacklisting one vendor, one vendor with a legitimate lab and chemist. Wow. Just wow.

 

[AndriaD]

That is my issue with AEMSA as well, But there's only three companies (as far as I know) that produce WTA liquids, so if you want WTA, you have to go to one of them. Or get unflavored from one of them to mix with your own DIY or with a favorite from anywhere else.

I DIY the majority of my liquid now, so it's hard for me to get worked up on this discussion topic, but I do not want to see the industry regulated out of existence either.

I'm just starting to learn DIY, having moderate success with reproducing a "virginia" taste I like. But, I can't use the unflavored WTA to any great extent, because both places that sell it that way (aroma and wholecig), it's available only as 100% Vg -- which means I have to add 75% more of something that's 100% PG just to bring it to a level my lungs can tolerate, so I don't get much of the WTA at all, if I use the unflavored.

I've gotten the WTA-Virginia from Aroma, and it's 70PG/30VG, a GREAT deal more tolerable to my lungs, so I don't have to add much to it, to bring it down to 10mg and up to 75% PG.

There's this great tale constantly being told around here, and apparently is popular with the makers of WTA too, that VG is "easier to vape"... but let me tell you, it's NOT easy to vape when you can't even breathe! And that is what VG does to me, in any amount over 25% of my ejuice, it coats and congests my lungs so badly, I just cannot breathe; it feels like there's something in there that MUST come out, but simply will not, it will not move or cough up or be ignored. A huge deal for anyone, but for an asthmatic who already struggles at times just to draw breath...?

If 100% PG produced better vapor, I'd be all over it, but the vapor is just a little too thin to be satisfying. So I stick to 75%-80% PG, and the rest VG. Maybe someday someone intelligent will make an unflavored WTA that's at least 50/50, or even more PG, for those of us who CANNOT breathe all that VG -- and expect to KEEP breathing!

Andria

 

[Tangaroav]

I agree, and since I need the WTA, I have no choice, thanks to the stupid disallowance of WTA by AEMSA, but to buy non-AEMSA for my WTA liquids.

I have no earthly idea why they disallow something so important to so many in staying free of cigarettes and cravings for them, and the various emotional disturbances related to smoking cessation. It makes no sense at all.

Andria

AEMSA's defines WTA :

A full-spectrum mixture of all alkaloids extracted from whole tobacco. WTA can contain,
in addition to nicotine, anabasine, cotinine, myosmine, anatabine, and/or nornicotine, in
varying compositions, largely dependent on the tobacco species

...and the forbidden AEMSA substances are :

Section 2.05 The following will not be added or used in the creation of e-liquids
(a) Including but not limited to:

(i) Diacetyl
(ii) WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids)
(iii) Medicinal - or prescription medicinal
(iv) Illegal or controlled substances
(v) Caffeine
(vi) Vitamins or Dietary supplements (other than for preservative purposes)
(vii) Acetyl Propionyl (2,3-‐Pentanedione)
(viii) Artifical Food Coloring

1) AEMSA members will not add any artificial coloring or dyes during the e-liquid manufacturing process. Non vendor
manufactured flavorings containing artificial food coloring will identify food coloring information to include coloring
number in advertising and product descriptions


I have no idea why WTA is not allowed, I can only guess it is dangerous to breath those chemicals... maybe because as Doc Kistler mentionned, natural extracts can cause rotten lung disease.. I assume AEMSA is following present govt. regulations as in Diacetyl & Acetyl Propionyl.
Self regulation will impose some limitations.

I hope you find an alternative to WTA that will satisfy you.