Well, I have been vaping since 2009 and doing reviews for a few years now. I did buy the Ammit 25 though. It was before doing reviews.
I take it this means that the vape businesses that are still up and running in the U.S. will not be able to restock after May 1?
At least not with Chinese products, which is the bulk of their inventory. You might see a rise in other countries' products, but more likely you will see a shuttering of B&M stores.
He posted the results in many YT videos. I imagine many of his contracts requires MDAs and those he can't talk about. You know, those secret additives.
No, they don't put cells in storage and then test them years later. That takes way too long and it's too late once you collect the data anyway. Instead they measure things like slippage. Zero slippage means you get back 100% of the energy that you put in. But we are not there yet with current lithium technology. Instead we get back numbers like 99.992% of the energy.
So the slippage in this case is 0.008%. And for every time you cycle the cell, it is often the same amount of slippage. Thus the life of the cell can be calculated years in advance. And you can test say after a week in the freezer and measure how much slippage had taken place. Thus you can calculate how much longer a cell's life may be extended, if any vs. say from room temperature storage.
Remember EV manufactures want to know how long each type of cell lasts under what conditions. From sitting and doing nothing to being used in the hottest deserts and the coldest ice packed landscapes. Luckily for us vapers, far more demanding than what we use them for.
The enemy of lithium batteries is the dreaded parsytic action which takes place (plate contamination). If you could stop this, lithium batteries would last forever. And with those secret additives (which can't be talked about) plays a huge part in slowing this process down.
I feel like we've been through this type of thing too many times. Years ago it started. This and then that were going to ban ecigs. Then it was the approaching deeming followed by the shipping ban. Through all of this we are still ordering and receiving merchandise. I personally have a hard time believing that China will completely shut down exports of ecigs. I could be wrong. It happened once before you know.
So it seems I was correct when I wrote, "Bottom line: I don't know of anyone else who has ever bothered to do this kind of testing over a period of years."
Sounds like what you're saying is they modelled it. Models are cool; they make predictions, but those predictions need to be tested against what actually happens in the real world over time. Just ask the IPCC, Neil Ferguson, or the folks who designed the batteries in the Nissan Leaf.
That's great. Except the cells used in EV batteries are optimized for energy density rather than the ability to deliver lots of current quickly. The most common application for the type of cells most of us use is power tool batteries, not EVs. They're both apples, but one is a Red Delicious and the other is a Granny Smith.
It's all a matter of taste I guess. I use mostly original Lemos. I 've had them for years and picked up a bunch when they were going cheap. They aren't very convenient, you have to empty them and take them apart to change the wick. Maybe you would like them, maybe not.
Does that shop sell on-line? I would pick up some more Lemos if I could.
Oh I wouldn't say nobody, as Professor Jeff Dahn said that they don't run those long-term testing at the University. But he did mention that manufactures does this themselves.
Sounds like what you're saying is they modelled it. Models are cool; they make predictions, but those predictions need to be tested against what actually happens in the real world over time. Just ask the IPCC, Neil Ferguson, or the folks who designed the batteries in the Nissan Leaf.
They are tested against the real world. You have to do this to know how accurate the predictions are. Heck, when I was doing some contract work for Magnavox who had an IC manufacturing plant in Fort Wayne, IN. They could accurately predict to almost within the year, month, day, and hour when an IC failure would occur. And that was back in the 80's. I am sure the predictions are even far more accurate today.
That's great. Except the cells used in EV batteries are optimized for energy density rather than the ability to deliver lots of current quickly. The most common application for the type of cells most of us use is power tool batteries, not EVs. They're both apples, but one is a Red Delicious and the other is a Granny Smith.
I believe those EV engineers would disagree with you. They want both high energy density and deliver high power instantly. Heck, Tesla had used Samsung 25R cells in some of their models. The same cells that many vapers use in their mods even today. Tesla even developed a cell that doesn't just have one tab on the plate like other cells, but dozens of tabs on the same plate. This results in a cell that can deliver incredible power instantly. With 5 times more energy and 6 times more power, it's a vaper's dream cell.
The Real Reason Tesla Developed The 4680 Battery.. - YouTube
Hearsay isn't data.
Chips aren't batteries.
LOL! A 4680 also has 5.9 times the volume of a 2170 and 8.75 times the volume of an 18650. So 5x the energy and 6x the power is in no way indicative of an improvement in energy density. The "tabless" design just provides a shorter path for both the current and the heat generated in the battery.Tesla even developed a cell that doesn't just have one tab on the plate like other cells, but dozens of tabs on the same plate. This results in a cell that can deliver incredible power instantly. With 5 times more energy and 6 times more power, it's a vaper's dream cell.
As for being a vaper's dream cell, well, maybe for some vapers. Me, I've always been perfectly content with a single 18650. So why would I dream of something bigger and heavier?
Just wait until they get us in e cars, they will federalize the power grid (which can't handle the load) and put your charger in their command and tell you when you can charge and for how much and where you can go and for how long,
Models - aren't those the things that have been wrong on every temporal prediction of the devastating effects of global cooling, warming, climate change since before "An Inconvenient Truth" was first published. I think we are all to be dead by now according to models. GIGO
So it seems I was correct when I wrote, "Bottom line: I don't know of anyone else who has ever bothered to do this kind of testing over a period of years."
Sounds like what you're saying is they modelled it. Models are cool; they make predictions, but those predictions need to be tested against what actually happens in the real world over time. Just ask the IPCC, Neil Ferguson, or the folks who designed the batteries in the Nissan Leaf.
That's great. Except the cells used in EV batteries are optimized for energy density rather than the ability to deliver lots of current quickly. The most common application for the type of cells most of us use is power tool batteries, not EVs. They're both apples, but one is a Red Delicious and the other is a Granny Smith.
I still remember even, odd gas days and the buying limits and 55mph speed limits. It's on it's way Carter v2.0
Thank you for your thoughts about them, I'll probably keep them low on my list for now.
I checked their website, doesn't seem like they do online sales, but I'll ask about that and check the pricing on my next visit. Site also doesn't look up to date to me.
Vape Flow is the store in Trexlertown, Pa. USA.
It's not Hearsay, it's in the datasheet. What you are doing is batch long-term testing. How does that help anybody? They have to have the same batch as you do to be of any use. Say someone discovers after 50 years those old blue wrap 25R lasts 50 years stored at room temperature (I have about a dozen of them that are still fine after 7 years - vaping with one of them now in fact). What good will it do? They haven't been manufactured in 55 years by then.
No, but slippage is. And you can predict the same for a given cell. If you watched those videos, you would know this.
18650 cells at 15 watts only last me about 4 to 6 hours. 21700s almost last me twice as long. And I've been known to use dual 21700 and triple 18650 mods for even longer battery power.
By the time you get done with your long-term testing, the rest of us will probably be using those new safer solid state cells. As they store more energy, supply more power, and they can be recharge far more often too.
Remember I am not telling you to not do long-term research. I'm just asking why you would want to? As once you get the data, the data is no longer useful.
Oh another thing Rossum. I have some concerns about long-term storage of lithium cells in the freezer. Apparently short-term freezing seems acceptable. But I am concern about what happens to the electrolyte. As does it fracture and thus causes the two plates to conduct? Which in turn overheats the cell and causing it to burst into flames?
Looking at that Samsung_INR18650-25R datasheet for example, it recommends long-term storage below 60°C (140°F). They never mention anything about freeze storing though.
Looking at that Samsung_INR18650-25R datasheet for example, it recommends long-term storage below 60°C (140°F). They never mention anything about freeze storing though.
The operating temperature is based on the cell surface temperature in hottest position in pack.
Charge temperature ranges : 0°C~ 50°C
Discharge Temperature ranges : -20°C~ 75°C
Store the battery at temperature below 60°C
Charge temperature ranges : 0°C~ 50°C
Discharge Temperature ranges : -20°C~ 75°C
Store the battery at temperature below 60°C
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Curiosity. Plus by testing the batteries I have in storage every year or so, whatever the optimal temperature turns out to be, I'll have at least some that were stored that way.
I think below 60°C / 140°F is a given. But the datasheet I'm looking at specifies -30~60℃ for up to one month, -30~45℃ for up to three months, and -30~25℃ for up to 1.5 years. So down to -30°C appears to be acceptable more-or-less indefinitely.
Moreover:
and:
Last I heard, electrolytes in these batteries aren't aqueous and won't "freeze" at the allowable storage temperatures, so where does this "fracture" notion come from?
Anytime you have layers, you always have a possibility of separation at some temperatures.
I'm STILL waitin' on this damn ice-age I read about at 10 years old.
If you want to have some REAL fun, look up what that same esteemed doc has said since.
Sorry for the off-track...
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