Are you done stocking up?

[LoriP1702]

It's all good! The scenarios @WillyZee mention are my reality. I was in some fast food spot. Dude walked in with a case, put it on a table, popped it open & I swear.....it was filled with a gazillion eGo vape pens & ej00ze! I was like.....ohhhh is this what we doin' now!? This same guy used to sell DVD's out that case.

Sounds like some high quality devices! Next week it'll be something else no doubt.

Hahahaa!! I tasted the Everclear once.....that ish grew hair on the bottom of my feet!!!!

LMBO!! I tried a tiny bit too, that stuff burns!!!!!
TOO FUNNY!!!

It tastes exactly like what you get in a bar if you order a rail vodka and tonic. Or if you don't specify and the bartender doesn't try to upsell you

Yeah, you only make THAT mistake ONCE.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I wonder if I submitted pure VG if it would pass LOL
If I had a million or so laying around I would do it just cuz!

Somebody somewhere suggested pure water and slap a juice label on it and see whether or not it passes a PMTA.

 

[VNeil]

You can believe what

Hey that's Great.

But where the Fall Down with the Numbers occurs is in the Belief that the Smoking Rates will continue to Fall in the Long Term. Verses, what many Believe will/has already happened, that Smoking Rates will Stabilize at a given Percentage.

Very Few believe that e-Cigarettes can/will replace All 1st time Smokers. And Sustained, Long Term Drops in Teen Smoking are just not Possible. Not Possible in a "Free Market". And sure as Hell Not Possible in a Heavily Restricted FDA Regulated Market.

You can believe what you want but any trend in motion is expected to stay in motion until some force is applied to change it. The tax man gets that, hence the increasingly hysterical attempts to shut down vaping worldwide before it decimates the smoking population.

 

[VNeil]

Yeah, you only make THAT mistake ONCE.

You're talking to a rail gin drinker. And I know that most people don't know the difference if you convince them you just poured them a Beefeater gin & tonic when it was really Bowman's. I do that experiment in the interest of science all the time. Ahhhh the power of marketing

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Does anyone in US make RTA's or RDA's?

Yes, but I'm not at home right now so I don't have access to my bookmarks.... let me see if I can find it...

Yep try the new 25mm Kennedy RTA and there are others.

 

[zoiDman]

You can believe what

You can believe what you want but any trend in motion is expected to stay in motion until some force is applied to change it. The tax man gets that, hence the increasingly hysterical attempts to shut down vaping worldwide before it decimates the smoking population.

The Problem is we are Not Talking about objects falling in a vacuum so that they Obey Newtonian Laws.

The Allure of trying and using Cigarettes in Minors is just too great to ever get to a point where there is No 1st Time Smokers. Just Aint gunna happen.

Heath Agencies and Governments will Not tell you that there is a Baseline Percentage of 1st Time Teen/Minor Smokers No Matter what Anyone or Any Agency does.

e-Cigarettes have Helped Lower Teen/Minor use. And we may even be at or close that Baseline Now.

 

[m1ke]

In my 'hood, they're already doing this.
I'm just wondering how long it'll take the 'corner boys' to start selling it.

I don't think hustlers are ever gonna sell e juice on the corner. The juice won't ever be illegal. It'll be like cigarettes -- taxed a lot.

 

[VNeil]

The Problem is we are Not Talking about objects falling in a vacuum so that they Obey Newtonian Laws.

The Allure of trying and using Cigarettes in Minors is just too great to ever get to a point where there is No 1st Time Smokers. Just Aint gunna happen.

Heath Agencies and Governments will Not tell you that there is a Baseline Percentage of 1st Time Teen/Minor Smokers No Matter what Anyone or Any Agency does.

e-Cigarettes have Helped Lower Teen/Minor use. And we may even be at or close that Baseline Now.

Pure conjecture on your part. I wish you would recognize it as such. Teen smoking has already crashed well below the old baseline levels, disproving the whole concept of an inviolable baseline....

There was once a theory that it was impossible to get the smoking rate below 20% no matter how badly you annoyed and inconvenienced smokers and no matter how much you taxed them. With the smoking rate at 15% now, and falling at historic rates, surely at least significantly due to vaping, I don't think many seriously believe there are any fixed baselines. You excepted of course.

There's a reason they call vaping a disruptive technology. It is disrupting many conceptions about baseline smoking rates among other things.

 

[YoursTruli]

ZampleBox is saying the same things I said from the start. They will have no change except maybe losing a few lines of juice for at least 2 yrs and most likely longer because it will be held up in court much longer. Items that are currently on the market before it takes effect will be available for 2yrs and longer as well... stocking up to early, you'll run out before anything actually happens lol.

The next two years are not going to be a static status quo, you are leaving the states out of that equation.
For example...
Already Arkansas and Indiana have enacted laws that make buying online from out of state retailers illegal (not to mention the choke hold they have put on vape retailers), 1 just eliquid and the 2nd everything vape related.
North Carolina, Minnesota, Kansas, Louisiana, the District of Columbia and three local jurisdictions have already imposed e-cig excise taxes, another 23 states considered and have proposed taxes. NJ has proposed a ban of flavors...

Once the deeming takes effect 8/8/16 all vape related products become a tobacco product, many states have laws that making buying tobacco online and having it shipped to you illegal and/or have raised the legal age to 21 to include e-cigarettes. All vendors must apply for a permit to sell tobacco products from the state which have their own set of rules and regulations many vendors may not be able to meet....

During that 2 year period the FDA also has regulation that retailers must comply with deadlines for doing so, labeling, warnings, inventory reporting, PMTA filing for starters..... coupled with the promise from the FDA more guidelines, rules, regulations will be added as needed...

So, 2 years to stock up... if you feel safe in that promise from a vendor, well, good on you, me, well, not so much.

And yes, the demise of vape shops will be very bad. Vape shops are critically important. But people will adjust to that injustice and that will result in an explosion of DIY as long as there is hardware to vaporize it. And kids will not be as reliant on vape shops. It is far easier to start vaping from scratch than to try to quit smoking

You have online vape community syndrome. Think outside of that bubble where in the real world the vast majority of vapers buy from B&Ms in face to face transactions, and, the vast majority of online buying is from B&M vape shops with websites.
So, it stands to reason the demise of the vape shop will end vaping for the vast majority of vapers who in reality will not turn to DIY. If premade eliquid and vaping supplies are not readily available to most vapers (as cigarettes are) from the corner store or become more (or) as expensive as smoking, most vapers will go back to smoking or quit both altogether.

 

[zoiDman]

Pure conjecture on your part. I wish you would recognize it as such. Teen smoking has already crashed well below the old baseline levels, disproving the whole concept of an inviolable baseline....

...

What you are Missing, or Purposely Ignoring, is that the Teen Smoking rate is Not the Baseline I was Referring to.

As long as Cigarettes are Sold in this country, there is a Baseline Percentage of Minors/Teen who are going to Smoke no matter what Happens.

e-Cigarettes have contributed to lowering the Minor/Teen Smoking Rate. I don't think Many would Debate this. But where things Max Out is when the Minor/Teen Smoking Rate approach the Baseline Percentage. And you see Smaller and Small drops in the amount of Minor/Teen Smokers.

It would be Nice to think that e-Cigarettes can someday replace Cigarettes someday. But as long as Cigarettes are allowed to be Sold, which the 2007 Predicate Date Guarantees, this will Never Happen.

 

[VNeil]

Yeah, you only make THAT mistake ONCE.

Just a follow up.... About 35 years ago I was BSing with my firm's outside accountant, who also had a major distillery as a client. As such and due to the particular consulting he did there he was intimately familiar with their operations. He insisted that gin is gin regardless of price. It all came out of the same base vats. The difference between Beefeater and Tanquaray and Bowman's is a little flavoring and perfumes added on the back end. Oh, and a LOT of marketing/propaganda. And the same is generally true of other spirits, especially fundamentally clear spirits. Aged scotch and whiskey might be something a bit different.

If you come over to my place I put a bottle of Beefeater and Captain Morgan on the table. You'll never know about the handles of Bowman's and Admiral Nelson hidden in a kitchen cabinet, used to fill those two bottles. And when I ask you how you liked the drink you'll never complain about how it tastes like cat pi$$. You'll tell me it was fine. And not just to be polite, you'll believe it.

After a couple drinks I might tell you about my little scam or maybe not if I don't want to spoil things for you.

And I suspect a lot of eLiquid discussions would turn out very differently if it were similarly blind tested. The power of marketing and propaganda (is there a difference?) is amazing...

 

[zoiDman]

...

You have online vape community syndrome. ...

OVCS ?

 

[VNeil]

Y

You have online vape community syndrome. Think outside of that bubble where in the real world the vast majority of vapers buy from B&Ms in face to face transactions, and, the vast majority of online buying is from B&M vape shops with websites.
So, it stands to reason the demise of the vape shop will end vaping for the vast majority of vapers who in reality will not turn to DIY. If premade eliquid and vaping supplies are not readily available to most vapers (as cigarettes are) from the corner store or become more (or) as expensive as smoking, most vapers will go back to smoking or quit both altogether.

Are you suggesting that if the govt kills off all the vape shops they won't focus on hardware at all? I'm not even sure if your argument is relative to the assertions I made. There's probably a million vapers now mainly independent of local vape shops. I don't think the govt will ignore that critical mass and let the hardware flow freely.

 

[VNeil]

What you are Missing, or Purposely Ignoring, is that the Teen Smoking rate is Not the Baseline I was Referring to.

As long as Cigarettes are Sold in this country, there is a Baseline Percentage of Minors/Teen who are going to Smoke no matter what Happens.

e-Cigarettes have contributed to lowering the Minor/Teen Smoking Rate. I don't think Many would Debate this. But where things Max Out is when the Minor/Teen Smoking Rate approach the Baseline Percentage. And you see Smaller and Small drops in the amount of Minor/Teen Smokers.

It would be Nice to think that e-Cigarettes can someday replace Cigarettes someday. But as long as Cigarettes are allowed to be Sold, which the 2007 Predicate Date Guarantees, this will Never Happen.

You keep insisting there is a hard floor. Please cite a basis for that or admit it's just your idea. The teen smoking rate could drop 17% forever. That 17% becomes s smaller absolute number each year but there is no reason, IF vaping were left alone, that the rate has to trend to zero until the smoking rate is fairly minuscule (well under 5% or so).

 

[LoriP1702]

Just a follow up.... About 35 years ago I was BSing with my firm's outside accountant, who also had a major distillery as a client. As such and due to the particular consulting he did there he was intimately familiar with their operations. He insisted that gin is gin regardless of price. It all came out of the same base vats. The difference between Beefeater and Tanquaray and Bowman's is a little flavoring and perfumes added on the back end. Oh, and a LOT of marketing/propaganda. And the same is generally true of other spirits, especially fundamentally clear spirits. Aged scotch and whiskey might be something a bit different.

If you come over to my place I put a bottle of Beefeater and Captain Morgan on the table. You'll never know about the handles of Bowman's and Admiral Nelson hidden in a kitchen cabinet, used to fill those two bottles. And when I ask you how you liked the drink you'll never complain about how it tastes like cat pi$$. You'll tell me it was fine. And not just to be polite, you'll believe it.

After a couple drinks I might tell you about my little scam or maybe not if I don't want to spoil things for you.

And I suspect a lot of eLiquid discussions would turn out very differently if it were similarly blind tested. The power of marketing and propaganda (is there a difference?) is amazing...

Interesting. I didn't know all that.

OVCS ?

 

[YoursTruli]

Y

Are you suggesting that if the govt kills off all the vape shops they won't focus on hardware at all? I'm not even sure if your argument is relative to the assertions I made. There's probably a million vapers now mainly independent of local vape shops. I don't think the govt will ignore that critical mass and let the hardware flow freely.

I would find it (almost) impossible to believe if the government knocked down the current numbers of vapers to around 4% of what it once was nationwide that it would be very difficult for them to control that 4%, if they even felt it was worth their trouble to try and do so, and... as things became more and more difficult to obtain through normal channels that 4% would just die out.

 

[WillyZee]

I would find it (almost) impossible to believe if the government knocked down the current numbers of vapers to around 4% of what it once was nationwide that it would be very difficult for them to control that 4%, if they even felt it was worth their trouble to try and do so, and... as things became more and more difficult to obtain through normal channels that 4% would just die out.

Vinny will have more than 4% market share

Vinny don't do taxes

 

[zoiDman]

You keep insisting there is a hard floor. Please cite a basis for that or admit it's just your idea. The teen smoking rate could drop 17% forever. That 17% becomes s smaller abdute number each year but there is no reason, IF vaping were left alone, that the rate has to trend to zero until the smoking rate is fairly minuscule (well under 5% or so).

Not sure if you have been Keeping Up with Current Affairs? But the Concept that vaping will somehow be "left alone" seems Beyond Naïve.

And I have News for you Sunshine, as Teen e-Cigarette use increases, you will see More and More Restrictions on Adult Use by States and the Feds. And Less and Less non-vaper support by the General Public and Legislators.

As for Citing a Basis. Don't need to. Because just like the Idea that Teen Smoking Rates can fall at 17% forever, my Conjecture is the same as your Conjecture.

 

[MMW]

I know one thing, if these threads keep going, I'll never be done stockpiling popcorn.

 

[MMW]

Double post.