Are you done stocking up?

[YoursTruli]

My insurance states tobacco products not nic. If they test for nic then people trying to stop on "approved" products and heavy vegetable eaters may test positive. I am not too concerned about that. It would only come up if I had a big bill.
insurance is the "them" to me.

I am surprised if your insurance company doesn't include vaping as tobacco use because it is considered a tobacco product. As long as 8 years ago insurance companies started including vaping for tobacco use rates. If you’re not honest about tobacco use, you risk being charged with insurance fraud. Your doctor will probably note tobacco use in your medical records as a result of routine blood and urine analysis. That paper trail could be uncovered and flagged as your insurer is reviewing your treatment before paying your bills.

 

[pt91]

Over the last 12 years I have witnessed 80% of smokers at my office switch to vaping. For the we first several years I was alone but gradually many joined me and it has been great helping many switch.
My building has roughly 1000 employees.
Several smokers have died from lung cancer or related diseases.
So far no rules against nicotine use have been implemented.
No testing has been required.
Honestly there are much more costly issues with health than vaping but we know that. The obesity rate is staggering.

 

[pt91]

I am surprised if your insurance company doesn't include vaping as tobacco use because it is considered a tobacco product. As long as 8 years ago insurance companies started including vaping for tobacco use rates. If you’re not honest about tobacco use, you risk being charged with insurance fraud. Your doctor will probably note tobacco use in your medical records as a result of routine blood and urine analysis. That paper trail could be uncovered and flagged as your insurer is reviewing your treatment before paying your bills.

Is vaping zero nic considered a tobacco product? Is vaping synthetic nic at 2% considered a tobacco product? Are there documented cases of this?

 

[Myrany]

Zero nic as per the deeming document IS considered a tobacco product. All zero nic liquids must go through the PMTA process. FOr that matter every bit of cotton and wire in a coil are considered tobacco products. It is all in the FDA's deeming document.

 

[YoursTruli]

Over the last 12 years I have witnessed 80% of smokers at my office switch to vaping. For the we first several years I was alone but gradually many joined me and it has been great helping many switch.
My building has roughly 1000 employees.
Several smokers have died from lung cancer or related diseases.
So far no rules against nicotine use have been implemented.
No testing has been required.
Honestly there are much more costly issues with health than vaping but we know that. The obesity rate is staggering.

I will say your employer is in a minority. 11 years ago maybe 12 health care employers (Michigan University) started testing for nic use and denying employment if you tested positive some even went so far as to give current employee nic users notice of dismissal if that did not test negative within a certain time limit. This policy was even battled out in the courts, the nic users lost. Since then most major employers have adopted the same no nic hiring practices.

FYI a company can refuse to hire you if you are obese and insurance can charge you higher rates. People with a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or higher can expect to pay more each month for health insurance.

 

[Territoo]

Here's a kind of interesting (and even comic) read about cotinine testing from Quest Diagnostics.
The facts about cotinine - what life insurers need to know

I don't think that an insurer is going to deem you as a non-tobacco user if you are using a smoking cessation product to quit tobacco. You are still a tobacco user to them if you're using nicotine in any form. They veiw nicotine as unsafe, not just tobacco use itself. They can;t detect if the continie in your urine is coming from smoking or chewing or a nic patch. For all they know, you are addicted to nic patches or gum or whatnot. That's unhealthy in their eyes.

And nobody can eat enough vegetables to be cotinine positive. The amount of nicotine in vegetables is just far too small

Zero nic as per the deeming document IS considered a tobacco product. All zero nic liquids must go through the PMTA process. FOr that matter every bit of cotton and wire in a coil are considered tobacco products. It is all in the FDA's deeming document.

0mg liquids is a tobacco product as far as the PMTA process is concerned but it won't get you a positive nicotine test for insurance purposes.

 

[Myrany]

0mg liquids is a tobacco product as far as the PMTA process is concerned but it won't get you a positive nicotine test for insurance purposes.

Agreed but the question was is it a tobacco product.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Is vaping zero nic considered a tobacco product? Is vaping synthetic nic at 2% considered a tobacco product? Are there documented cases of this?

For 0mg vaping, for insurance purposes, no. Because since there there is no nicotine for your liver to metabolize into cotinine there is no positive test result for cotinine. They go by what the test tells them.

Only way they'd know that you vape is if you tell them. And I'll leave it at that because last time I got into this I was met with negativity. You have to understand, I personally never got into vaping to primarily prolong my life or to live a healthier life (with the exception of getting rid of smoker's cough/laugh) so I am more of a black sheep here and on most/all other vaping communities.

For synthetic nicotine: synthetic nicotine metabolizes into cotinine then I assume you would be deemed a tobacco user. Cotinine is cotinine in their eyes from what little I've read in the last 20 min or so on such testing. If you don't use nicotine then you won't have cotinine in your urine.

You mentioned eating vegetables earlier, but I question if you could eat enough nicotine-containing vegetables to result in a positive on a cotinine test, but I have no clue really. If it is possible for certain vegetarians to make a cotinine test result positive, I'm sure that low concentration of cotinine doesn't result in a positive cotinine test. The threshold for a positive test would be set above that.

 

[aikanae1]

They did in India. Illegal to simply possess vape therefore anyone who stockpiled before the ban is illegally possessing.
The Unfolding Tragedy of India's Vape Prohibition

They also did it in Thailand. Illegal to possess under the grounds that it is illegal to import. If you possess it you must have imported it therefore you are in violation of illegally importing a restricted product.
Vaping in Thailand is Illegal. The Laws and Penalties in 2020.

But I get it, this isn't Thailand or India. But it's not the USA anymore either.



Well, maybe not a brand new mod or a brand new atty, but what about nicotine? Could they not train dogs to stiff-out nicotine freebase and salt?
Just playing devil's advocate here.

It's illegal in mexico but people do it anyway. And sell products on the streets. Philippine and India are not comparable; Duarte executes 10 yr olds. India took a nationalist turn with this PM (not wanting to get into politics).

There are not that many vapers. Smoking is increasing. To regulate individual vape mail would be a logistical nightmare; just the manpower would require billions added to the budget. It's much cheaper to focus on pmta's, commercial trade and advertising how harmful it is.

USPS lost scanning equip recently and they are under staffed, which is why pkgs tour the nation before delivery. Vapers never were that important. It's our money that was important. That problem will be solved by ending commercial sales. Credit cards will prob blacklist a number of suppliers.

I got to thinking - we could wake up to forms, boards and groups on FB, reddit and youtube gone. If anyone has capacity to archive sites, it might be wise. And have a backup here. There are hosts/servers that are out of reach.

I know at least one eliquid co released their recipes and more may follow. Vaping started "under the radar", 3d printing, recycling old hardware (altoids tins) and that'll happen again if we can hang together. The industry won't have the same $$$ growth which is all they were concerned about.

IMO.

Sent from my LM-G850 using Tapatalk

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Zero nic as per the deeming document IS considered a tobacco product. All zero nic liquids must go through the PMTA process. FOr that matter every bit of cotton and wire in a coil are considered tobacco products. It is all in the FDA's deeming document.

She's right, and it's also in the mail ban.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

The "nice" think about cotinine/nicotine tests (urine tests) is that from what I've been reading, cotinine is gone from your system within 3-10 days after you stop using nicotine. Hair follicle test would be a lot longer judging from what I read about drug testing in general. But not sure they can test for ti in a hair test, just sayin'.

I only ever got drug tested 2 times in a 2 year span, once urine and one hair. I hated doing it both times. I felt so violated just being forced to do it as a condition to earn a living. I have no idea what they tested for but I know it nicotine couldn't have been on the menu because I passed both tests. As a 2-3 pack a day then, I doubt I'd have passed lol.

 

[aikanae1]

The "nice" think about cotinine/nicotine tests (urine tests) is that from what I've been reading, cotinine is gone from your system within 3-10 days after you stop using nicotine. Hair follicle test would be a lot longer judging from what I read about drug testing in general. But not sure they can test for ti in a hair test, just sayin'.

I only ever got drug tested 2 times in a 2 year span, once urine and one hair. I hated doing it both times. I felt so violated just being forced to do it as a condition to earn a living. I have no idea what they tested for but I know it nicotine couldn't have been on the menu because I passed both tests. As a 2-3 pack a day then, I doubt I'd have passed lol.

Good reason to shave your head?
[emoji6]

Sent from my LM-G850 using Tapatalk

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Good reason to shave your head?

Nope.

 

[pt91]

Here's a kind of interesting (and even comic) read about cotinine testing from Quest Diagnostics.
The facts about cotinine - what life insurers need to know

I don't think that an insurer is going to deem you as a non-tobacco user if you are using a smoking cessation product to quit tobacco. You are still a tobacco user to them if you're using nicotine in any form. They veiw nicotine as unsafe, not just tobacco use itself. They can;t detect if the continie in your urine is coming from smoking or chewing or a nic patch. For all they know, you are addicted to nic patches or gum or whatnot. That's unhealthy in their eyes.

The insurance company I am on deems you a non-smoker if you take their program which includes patches/gum (and pays for it I believe). Nobody has been tested after a set time to make sure they are off the patches/gum.
I do wonder if a person runs up a large bill for non smoking related illness if they would research if they were still using nic to get off paying. I have not heard of a case like that but who knows.

 

[Territoo]

The insurance company I am on deems you a non-smoker if you take their program which includes patches/gum (and pays for it I believe). Nobody has been tested after a set time to make sure they are off the patches/gum.
I do wonder if a person runs up a large bill for non smoking related illness if they would research if they were still using nic to get off paying. I have not heard of a case like that but who knows.

People do get addicted to the gum.

 

[AvaOrchid]

I usually order my VG and PG from bullcity or nic river but nothing in gallon or larger available now.
Anyone have a good supplier?
I have a gallon of VG and maybe 1/2 gallon on hand so I am good for a bit.

I don't like paying for shipping so I get it on Amazon. USP is USP in my opinion. But if you want to stick to things that are branded for vaping Central vapors usually has some pretty good deals going on on gallons and free shipping I've never really understood some of the companies arguments that they can't ship gallons for free because everyone else seems to be able to lol Just one company in particular that for whatever reason they just never managed to accomplish what everyone else on Earth did lol you could probably buy 55 gallons and it would still be free shipping from Amazon or Central vapors

 

[Ericsgreen]

I spent a bit to prepare for mail ban, gives me hope for the new people and new people who don't even know they're gonna be vapers that we thought we needed to stock up 5 yrs ago, and 7 yrs ago, I hope things will swing back and the pmta and shipping ban are the same worry as years ago but I really stocked, least 5 years, closer to 10 really. I don't remember past ban panics, anyone quickly elaborate?

And why buy so much vg, It spoils and will always be available? I admit vg coming from nic river does make me feel warm and fuzzy but I sure hope I'm wrong and Amazon vg and pg will be ok?

 

[Territoo]

I spent a bit to prepare for mail ban, gives me hope for the new people and new people who don't even know they're gonna be vapers that we thought we needed to stock up 5 yrs ago, and 7 yrs ago, I hope things will swing back and the pmta and shipping ban are the same worry as years ago but I really stocked, least 5 years, closer to 10 really. I don't remember past ban panics, anyone quickly elaborate?

And why buy so much vg, It spoils and will always be available? I admit vg coming from nic river does make me feel warm and fuzzy but I sure hope I'm wrong and Amazon vg and pg will be ok?

There's no need to stock up on VG and PG. The mail ban does not affect those. Newbies to DIY mixing are being instructed to buy those as they are necessary for mixing.

 

[440BB]

I spent a bit to prepare for mail ban, gives me hope for the new people and new people who don't even know they're gonna be vapers that we thought we needed to stock up 5 yrs ago, and 7 yrs ago, I hope things will swing back and the pmta and shipping ban are the same worry as years ago but I really stocked, least 5 years, closer to 10 really. I don't remember past ban panics, anyone quickly elaborate?

And why buy so much vg, It spoils and will always be available? I admit vg coming from nic river does make me feel warm and fuzzy but I sure hope I'm wrong and Amazon vg and pg will be ok?

PG and VG will be available as they are not specific to vaping and have many other applications.

 

[Rossum]

The only downside I can think of is that the bottle presumably won't last forever. Just means you need to stock up on bottles and tubing since time is running out for buying stuff. I have no idea how long bottles last though.

The bottles in all my squonks are over 5 years old -- the original Italian "supersoft" bottles from the CoOp I ran on them in late 2015. Not a single one of them has failed, but I've got plenty of spares just in case.

The original tubing is getting a bit long in the tooth. It's compressed down a bit where it passes through the cap. Tubing can be got from places like McMaster.