Are you weening down? Why not?

[Chas F.]

.... I asked why you aren't changing so that you won't suffer. #1: You're making an assumption. #2: Define suffer #3: What business is it of yours?

Its kind of a logical question that anyone would ask someone else, who could prevent their own suffering but just naively goes on without giving it a thought.#4: No, not anyone. #5: Naive? Again you're making assumptions Sooner or later, you're going to be in a situation where you don't get to vape for a good long time. #5: Yup, been there done that. But if you've weened down to zero nic, then you won't really care. #6 Again you're assuming I care. If you're still in the higher levels you'll act like a druggie that needs a fix, which is technically what you are. This is where I usually end conversations with people that have your attitude. You don't know me but make assumptions based you YOUR experience and insult those that don't do as you do. What we all were, back when we smoked. But now there is this opportunity. I also figured someone would say they do higher ones because otherwise they'd just vape more. People will rationalize anything for their addictions. All you have to do, is instead of vaping 30mg, switch to 28 one day and vape that for a month. And so on. You'd think this would be completely apparent to most people, but I guess not.

Your whole premise is based on the assumption that all people are like you and want to get off of nicotine completely. You are wrong.

 

[DC2]

I knew someone would say something similar, to which I reply you missed the whole point. I never asked why you aren't changing to suit me. I asked why you aren't changing so that you won't suffer. Its kind of a logical question that anyone would ask someone else, who could prevent their own suffering but just naively goes on without giving it a thought. Sooner or later, you're going to be in a situation where you don't get to vape for a good long time. But if you've weened down to zero nic, then you won't really care. If you're still in the higher levels you'll act like a druggie that needs a fix, which is technically what you are. What we all were, back when we smoked. But now there is this opportunity.

I can assure you that is not as correct as you think it is.

There have been many instances where people were vaping zero nicotine for a period of time without knowing it.
Some of them elected to just continue using zero nicotine once they discovered what had happened.

As for myself, I have been vaping 12mg juice for well over four years now.
Most days I don't even start vaping until after work, and I once went two days without vaping at all, and without any suffering.

I also figured someone would say they do higher ones because otherwise they'd just vape more. People will rationalize anything for their addictions. All you have to do, is instead of vaping 30mg, switch to 28 one day and vape that for a month. And so on. You'd think this would be completely apparent to most people, but I guess not.

And some people will echo the decades of brainwashing by the ANTZ and their masters.

When someone tells me I'm "rationalizing because of my addiction" I have a few choice words to offer in reply.
I may have believed that crap years ago, but not anymore.

You either been reading too much Allen Carr or hanging out with too many anti-nicotine zealots.

 

[Jay-dub]

Are you weening down?

Nope.

Why not?

Didn't think about it till you brought up cancer. Jerk.

 

[440BB]

But if you've weened down to zero nic, then you won't really care.

When choosing to air an opinion and challenge others to justify their point of view, it's good to look up the spelling of the topic.

From Wikipedia:

Ween was an American experimental rock band. They formed in 1984 in New Hope, Pennsylvania when central members Aaron Freeman (Gene Ween) and Mickey Melchiondo (Dean Ween) met in an eighth grade typing class. Ween has a large cult underground fanbase despite being less known in American pop music. The band's style is eclectic, and while they could generally be referred to as rock music, one of their defining tendencies has been experimentation with various styles incorporating a strong element of humor and absurdity.

I find the premise of this thread's OP, that ending nicotine addiction was part of most vapers goal, to also be humorous and absurd.

Most vape to avoid health issues with smoking, and many to save money. I expect it will be available in some form for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps I will wean myself off nicotine at some point, but it still helps me avoid smoking, and like coffee, is something I enjoy. As an added bonus, having a nicotine vape available when the urge to return to my smoking addiction occurs is priceless.

In any case, I don't want to part of any weenie movement.

 

[Myrany]

As I read the postings of the OP one thing keeps going through my mind. There is a saying around here amongst smokers "Nothing worse than an exsmoker." We use it in reference to how some exsmokers go into hypersensitive and almost mean antismoking mode. They harangue smokers with things like "Just quit" or "Your smoke stinks" or the now infamous "I quit so you can too" then there is the common "I am going to guilt you into quitting." All I can do with these people is smile sweetly, shake my head and take a vape. Does my eliquid have nic in it? They will never know, it will drive them insane and I will enjoy every minute.

 

[skoony]

cause,i done wanna.

regards
mike

 

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

After more thought, I realize I have not lowered my nic to be free of it. I had to lower it as my devices got better. As a long time smoker I did not enjoy the hard buzz from the pure nic I got from vaping.

I had not felt the buzz from a analog for the last 20 years of smoking, at least not the way a good vape delivered it. 24 down to 12 based on the quality of the vape. If I switched back to a cig-a-like I would raise the nic level.

 

[talbrecht]

This is something that crosses my mind more than occasionally as well. I am not at all certain that nicotine had anything at all to do with the difficulty I had breaking my tobacco habit. I am not at all certain my continued use of nicotine has anything to do with addiction. I've read hundreds, if not thousands, of times that nicotine is addictive, but I have seen first hand how addiction works and how it can make people behave... and forgetting my PV on my desk when I leave for work does not cause me to act any differently or have any particular stress - knowing my favorite juice vendor was not selling juice for a few months did not cause me any particular stress or cause my behavior to change or cause any physiological changes to me - etc etc etc.

I don't know for sure that nicotine was the addictive force in analogs but I do get freaked out when I don't have my PV around or am running out of juice. I just don't ever want to be in a position to want to lite a cig again, EVER!!! It has been 4 months for me no maybe a little longer and I have gone down from 12mg to 6 and have not found any effect. Of course I now have a SID and am rebuilding my coils, wicking with cotton and am usually at 10 watts if the juice will allow so I am getting more per toot that I was with the stock clearo and ego batteries also.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I started out at 16mg with a lousy system (blu), then went to 18mg with a better PV (intermediate mid-tier level).

Realized 18 was too much for me on the new one, so dropped to 12 pretty quickly.


Then even at 12, it started getting to be too much, so dropped it down to 6, where I am now. And that's when I noticed it was too much of a cut, especially at first. Getting a little more used to it now, but not sure I ever totally will.


I think I would be a little more happy with 8 or 9 these days. Of course, that would also require a little mixing with a higher-strength juice, which can be a pain.


My new & more powerful VV/VW mod is in the mail, so I'll see how I do with the 6mg with that.


Future plans? Who knows. I still like vaping too much, especially as I discover some great flavors from quality juice brands.

It may be a while yet before I try to go below 6.


P.S. To put into a better context: Last analog a little over 4 months ago. Never going back!

 

[Anjaffm]

When choosing to air an opinion and challenge others to justify their point of view, it's good to look up the spelling of the topic.

yup. I find a headline with completely wrong spelling - from a person who acts all high and mighty and oh-so-much better than others ... how was the phrase again?... oh yes: disgusting to read.

I find the premise of this thread's OP, that ending nicotine addiction was part of most vapers goal, to also be humorous and absurd.

yup

In any case, I don't want to part of any weenie movement.

neither do I

And I do not even have a .... oh ok.. forget it

 

[MD_Boater]

If it weren't for the health insurance companies and certain employees testing for nicotine so that they can charge you the smoker's surcharge, I'd stay at 12mg. I like the throat hit that the nic gives, and I have no ill effects from 12mg/ml nic.

However, because nicotine is so EVIL, the health insurance companies want to charge me 1.5 times my normal insurance rent even though I am not putting all of those carcinogens in my body.

As a result, I am weaning myself down because I don't want to pay the insurance weasels.

I was a 30 yr smoker. I switched to RYO organic tobacco back in '08-'09 strictly to cheat the tax man (which worked - no "per pack" taxes). I had withdrawals for commercial cigs for a couple of weeks. My wife asked me to quit with her on Nov 1st this year, so I bought vaping gear (2 EVOD VV twists, 2 mini pro tanks, and a couple of bottles of 18mg juice). On Nov 6th of this year I had my last analog. By Thanksgiving, I was vaping 12mg and 6mg juices primarily, but I carried a tank or two of 0mg at all times. I tried to vape the 0mg as much as possible. By Dec 5th of this year, I was vaping all 6mg and 0mg. I started vaping the 0mg stuff exclusively around Dec. 5th. If I needed some nicotine, I would take a few puffs of the 6mg or 12mg followed up by a glass or two of grapefruit juice (I did a little research, and found that grapefruit juice prevents the metabolism of nicotine to cotinine. Google it.). Dec 10th - Dec 20th -- Stuck to all 0mg but allowed myself 5-6 drops of 6mg liquid in a 510 dripper once a day, followed up with 2 glasses of GF juice. On Dec 20th, I took the ins. co. blood test for cotinine. I just got the results back today. It was 0ng/ml !!! There will be an extra $150/mo in my paychecks this year! I had some 6mg and 12mg liquids left over. I have been vaping them since I took the test. I plan on going back to, and staying at, 0mg when they run out. I also plan on keeping some 6mg, 12mg, and 18mg juice handy just in case I need to crush a craving.

If only the health insurance companies shared your views. If you have nicotine in you're system you are a smoker....(according to them, not me). Pay up!!!!

I got the last laugh this time. I did not answer any "Do you smoke, or use products containing nicotine" questions, so they can not accuse me of lying. They did a freaking blood test, and I passed. If at some point down the road I test positive and they find out, I will simply say that I had some cravings and chewed some nic gum. Otherwise, 10 days of 0 nic and lots of GF juice again next year.

All that being said, I had NO problems at all vaping 0 nic exclusively for 10 days. I consider that NOT being addicted. Everything I have read about quitting smoking says that the first 10 days are the toughest. If that is true, then I have won both the battle, and the war.

 

[unsure]

Smoking for over 30 years has given me chronic bronchitis. I quit 4 years ago with the help of vaping. Now pending my next appointment I may have to quit vaping too. Im easily short of breath and have a oxygen blood level is 81%. If I can't vape anymore I don't see any reason not to pass along my one of a kind stabilized wood REOs.

 

[Decimate]

I started with 18mg, it was too much so I went to 12. It was still giving me too much nicotine so I started buying 6mg with no problems. I will probably start buying 6mg with a few extra flavor shots and "water it down" with VG

 

[Caridwen]

After more thought, I realize I have not lowered my nic to be free of it. I had to lower it as my devices got better. As a long time smoker I did not enjoy the hard buzz from the pure nic I got from vaping.

I had not felt the buzz from a analog for the last 20 years of smoking, at least not the way a good vape delivered it. 24 down to 12 based on the quality of the vape. If I switched back to a cig-a-like I would raise the nic level.

Yea, me too.

I've also noticed that people that vape very low nicotine seem to vape a lot. A lot more than me anyway. Since I'm on the cheap side, I don't want to go through a 30ml bottle of liquid every couple days.

 

[Myrany]

Yea, me too.

I've also noticed that people that vape very low nicotine seem to vape a lot. A lot more than me anyway. Since I'm on the cheap side, I don't want to go through a 30ml bottle of liquid every couple days.

I fully admit I chain vape at 0 mg. However, when my health and finances allowed it I chain smoked too. In my case anyways 6 of one half a dozen of another.

 

[BillyWJ]

Ooh, I have to get myself another cup of coffee before I tackle this answer. Ah, coffee. Caffiene. I'm such a junkie.

First off, I'll agree with others that nicotine isn't the bogeyman it's made out to be. We have known for a long time that nicotine isn't the most damaging thing in cigarettes. It's the tar and carcinogens in the smoke that is the real killer. As to exactly how risky it is to use clean nicotine, the jury is really still out, but nicotine by itself simply does not seem to be very harmful (at the levels we are using). We are also beginning to learn now that nicotine isn't as toxic as conventional wisdom claims (original reports of lethal dose of nicotine are from sketchy self experimentation years and years ago, and current reports of attempted suicides with nicotine make it clear that the lethal dose of nicotine is likely at least 20x higher than previously thought). We are also learning that nicotine probably isn't as addictive by itself as was previously thought. The conventional wisdom says that nicotine isn't the harmful part of a cigarette, but it's what keeps us coming back to smoking. Several lines of evidence (anecdotal and scientific) bring this conventional wisdom into question. I think it's safe to say at the least that clean nicotine is not nearly as addictive as cigarettes are, and how much less addictive it is will have to be determined in the future.

As for me, I started vaping with 24 m/ml. Went quickly down to 18, 16, 14, and then 12. I stuck with 12 for a long time, but have recently been vaping 10 and 8. Personally, I would be okay with sticking to a higher level indefinitely. Unless some reliable evidence came along that made me reconsider my position, I just don't think it's that bad. My first drops in nicotine were kind of because I had to. My tolerance for nicotine seemed to decrease and I had to cut down. The last two drops were just to see if I can. Also it cuts my costs for DIY down and makes my stash last longer.

This is close to something that's a hunch of mine, but I can't support - that nicotine by itself is an addiction that is easier to manage and drop than what we were getting with cigarettes.

Most addictions are a downward spiral of increasing usage. Alcohol, narcotics, cigarettes - you don't ever find a comfort zone, it's always "more, more, more!". Even caffeine, although it's on a vastly smaller scale. We all know how it is with cigarettes - we always hated people who smoked socially, we HAD to have them, and over time, our usage increased unless we made a conscious and stressful choice to cut back.

But with vaping, I'm seeing lot of people who are DECREASING usage naturally, often the decrease isn't even a goal, it just happens. Their bodies find a level they like. I've yet to see anyone say they started with 18, and moved up to 24, and now are considering 36. A lot of people are reporting that they just don't need as much as when they started.

Very, very curious, and very interesting, and is making me re-evaluate the addiction aspect of nicotine. There's something at work here that's either never been studied, or covered up by Big Tobacco. I've been looking, I can't find anything about it. I would not be surprised to find that Big Tobacco studied the chemistry and biology of addiction to alcohol and narcotics, and emulated it in their products. There's a reason why it's a generally accepted consensus that cigarettes are harder to quit than (a substance we're not allow dot talk about here)......, but nobody ever dug into WHY - or had their investigations squashed or hidden.

 

[BillyWJ]

Yea, me too.

I've also noticed that people that vape very low nicotine seem to vape a lot. A lot more than me anyway. Since I'm on the cheap side, I don't want to go through a 30ml bottle of liquid every couple days.

That's probably the same as when smokers switch from normal strength cigarettes to "lights" - they smoke more to get the levels they were getting before. My dad switched to one of the so-called lowest tar cigarettes on the market, but went from a pack a day to three packs a day, and I went from one pack of Camel to two packs of Camel lights a day.

 

[jhelliwell]

No I didn't quit smoking to get off nicotine. I wanted to stop killing myself. The nicotine in patches, gum, e-cigarettes is not harmful.

I started at 18mg, immediately went up to 24mg and then got better delivery devices. The kayfun lite I have is an amazingly efficient atomiser and therefore to get the same level of nicotine, I have dropped to 12mg, but even though I have dropped nic levels, I would imagine my nicotine blood stream levels are the same when I vape.

I have no plans to drop any further. I am delighted to be a nicotine addict thank you very much.

Or do you want me to start custom mixing my instant coffee powder as well. If I get a jar of decaf and a jar of caffeinated stuff I can custom blend and gradually ween myself off that too.

 

[Silent Scream]

I started at 18mg, (iirc) and slowly, over time, got down to 0mg. This did take a few years. But I did it. There are plenty of places out there that will let you go in intervals of 2mg, up or down. The place in town where I buy most of my vape juice also does this. I went down to 16, 14, 12, 10, etc etc until I got to zero. If for whatever reason, I can not vape, no big deal. So why don't most people do this? Why would you want to remain addicted, so that if something happens where you just can't vape, you go into freakout mode? Its actually disgusting to watch. There are plenty of situations that could arise that could prevent you from being able to vape, possibly for days at a time. Nicotine has also been linked to stomach cancer so that's another reason.

I'm with Myrany on this, you have the mindset of an ex-smoker. Okay you quit nicotine, congrats but now it's disgusting to watch people who haven't done the same? When I smoked I always ran into ex-smokers, the ones who wave their hands wildly if they think there is cigarette smoke within 50 miles of them or start to have terrible coughing fits if they spot someone smoking at the other end of the street and hold their nose to block the awful smell if their friend on the other end of the telephone tells them they just lit up.

As has been pointed out many times on this thread people don't 'go into freakout mode' from lack of nicotine when they can't vape but we ALL were climbing walls and went into multi-storied, multi-tiered, gargantuan galaxy sized FREAKED OUT mode when we ran out of cigarettes. I never experienced that with vaping and I smoked for 35 years. I don't need an 'emergency' vape first thing in the morning with a coffee just to calm down so yeah I guess all of us who don't see nicotine in itself as madly addictive might just be on to something.

My advice to you is enjoy your new nicotine-free existence and concern yourself more with how to enjoy it and less with what other people want to do or choose to do. At the very least, not demonising people for vaping nicotine when you yourself freely admit you were doing so yourself for years until recently would be a step in the right direction.

 

[YKruss]

Watch this video by Fr. Jack Kearney.
He explains nicotine dependency (not addiction):