Ask IMAGINE & S_Steve - Thread :)

[cindycated]

Just to put it out there too, it might also be the angle at which the PV is held when vaping. I tend to hold my PV horizontally (like I did my cigarettes and my microphone - haha, that's why your manual-button-pushing-with-your-thumb analogy didn't make sense to me, Imagine) and that's probably not the norm. If it's pointed downward, then yeah, it might take a little more time for the juice to make it up there, even with the longer wicks (hence the 3-4 puff rule). Just sayin...one might also have to adjust their style with these...or switch to the bottom coil CE3s, which would work better at this angle.

And Imagine, YOU'RE the official guinea pig, right?

 

[awsum140]

It occurred to me early on with vaping that it would be best to hold the e-cig in a downward position to let gravity help the liquid "flow " towards the atomizer a little better. This is especially true with a clearo to keep the wicks good and wet. Being "frugal " and doing this helps get the most out of a clearo or a carto.

 

[Mroutlaw]

Hey Imagine, has the PIF contest ended? There's been now winner for a couple of weeks, and it seems like no one is posting anymore because of it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Imagine]

I have to draw 2 winners... I have not had a chance to sit down at a computer today ...I will draw the winners tomorrow night,

Hey Imagine, has the PIF contest ended? There's been now winner for a couple of weeks, and it seems like no one is posting anymore because of it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[cindycated]

It occurred to me early on with vaping that it would be best to hold the e-cig in a downward position to let gravity help the liquid "flow " towards the atomizer a little better. This is especially true with a clearo to keep the wicks good and wet. Being "frugal " and doing this helps get the most out of a clearo or a carto.

Yeah, but how well does that work when the atomizer is up on top?

 

[awsum140]

Beats me, which is another reason to stick with bottom atomizers. I think the SI clearo is a bottom atomizer. The trick is to keep the wicks wet no matter where the atomizer is in a clearo.

 

[Mroutlaw]

I have to draw 2 winners... I have not had a chance to sit down at a computer today ...I will draw the winners tomorrow night,

Thanks, I was just curious.

 

[cindycated]

Beats me, which is another reason to stick with bottom atomizers. I think the SI clearo is a bottom atomizer. The trick is to keep the wicks wet no matter where the atomizer is in a clearo.

Is it? I thought everything was up on top...
just don't see how it can produce vapor if liquid isn't reaching the coil fast enough (which is on top).

 

[Mroutlaw]

Beats me, which is another reason to stick with bottom atomizers. I think the SI clearo is a bottom atomizer. The trick is to keep the wicks wet no matter where the atomizer is in a clearo.

Actually, the reason the bottom coil carto is better, IMHO, is because there is less filler exposed to the coil. This way, the coil doesn't burn the filler until it's completely dry. The other cartos (where the coil runs vertically next to the air tube) burn easier because the coil is running the entire length of the filler. So, if you vape it halfway empty, the coil could be sitting next to dry filler and burn.

You are right awsum, gravity does pull the juice to the bottom of the carto. But, you don't have to leave it that way all the time since the filler is like a sponge. If you think about it, you naturally hold your pv angled at least a little down. So the juice will pool more towards the bottom of the filler over time. But if you turn it upside down to vape, the juice will still be near the coil for awhile, still allowing you to vape without burning.

Think of it this way. Take a sponge and get it wet. Then stand it on its end. Over time, the bottom of the sponge will have more water than the top. But, if you turn it the other way, the bottom (now the top) will still be wet because it will take time for the water to move to the other end. That's why thicker juices are harder to wick. They take even longer to move through the filler.

My next video (which will be up in a day or so) is cutting an SI carto open and comparing it to a v4l carto. It will show why Si cartos last longer

 

[Mroutlaw]

Is it? I thought everything was up on top...
just don't see how it can produce vapor if liquid isn't reaching the coil fast enough (which is on top).

The SI clearo is a top coil, hence the long wicks. The juice has to flow up the wick to the coil. The coil is wrapped around the wick. The cartos are bottom coil.

The new CE3 is bottom coil. They work so well because gravity pulls the juice to the bottom and the wick is always wet and feeding the coil.

There is a top coil ce3, but its not nearly as good as the bottom coil. Because the wick has to pull the juice up to the coil, it can give dry hits more (especially with high Vg juice). The too coil ce3 is nothing more than the SI clearo in a tube that will fit the small battery.

Also, the top coil wicks seem to allow certain juices separate Flavors. I think (only my opinion) its because the wick separates some flavoring out because of its chemical and physical properties. Ever notice on the si clearo that the juice in your tank gets darker, thicker and the flavor changes as you vape it?

This doesn't happen in the
BC ce3 because everything is flowing down and to the wicks

 

[cindycated]

Well hold on.We were talking about clearos, right?
I was just saying that maybe adjustments in style had to be made with those because the mechanics of it is basically upside-down...
Holding the PV vertically (straight up) wouldn't be a good thing because you could flood the coil and get a lot of liquid in your mouth too, but I would think less of a downward angle would help get the liquid up to the coil a little faster, with gravity and all...just sayin'...

 

[Mroutlaw]

Well hold on.We were talking about clearos, right?
I was just saying that maybe adjustments in style had to be made with those because the mechanics of it is basically upside-down...
Holding it vertically (straight up) wouldn't be a good thing because you could flood the coil and get a lot of liquid in your mouth too, but I would think less of a downward angle would help get the liquid up to the coil a little faster, with gravity and all...just sayin'...

I'm lost. When you say hold it vertically, where is the mouth piece? Away from the floor or closer to the floor.

If you hold it upside down, (mouthpiece closer to the floor) the juice will travel the wick faster to coil, and yes, can flood the coil. That's what causes the gurgling, some juice traveling the airtube back to the battery and juice coming in your mouth. That's why top coil clearos are so finicky, you have to find the perfect way to hold them, and tilt them just right and just long enough. Then the manufacturers have to figure out how to stop or limit the flooding (they use those rubber seals around the ceramic cup) without cutting off the flow to the coils. That's why you see so many people modding them, especially the ce2 and even the top coil ce3. They cut the silicone seal to allow the wicks better flow or turn the seal to stop the flow. Too much work if you ask me.

I actually think that si did a good job with (I assume VISION) on designing the new clearos. They seam to have the cup seal just right. Of course, different juices will affect it differently. Thick juices will have a harder time wicking and something like 100% pg will possibly flood. I would almost guarantee that most of the complaints about them, whether it be dry hits or flooding, are caused by the juice viscosity.

 

[Mroutlaw]

I just realized we are in ASK IMAGINE. I think we hijacked her thread

 

[awsum140]

Well, maybe I'm confused (nothing new about that at all) about which is top and which is bottom on a carto or clearo. In my feable mind, the bottom is the battery end and the top the mouthpiece end. I realize that the filler is sponge-like and that the liquid osmoses toward the dryer end, ie the end being heated, and that gravity, in the relatively short time a carto is used, probably has very little effect. On the other hand (there's a thumb and four fingers, jeesh my mind does wander) every little bit can help to make the experience nicer. I do normally have a clearo laying flat on an end table or desk which keeps the wicks saturated, but if I'm walking the dog or working around the yard or out in the car, it is generally battery end down in my cell phone pouch unless I'm vaping with it. I've never had flooding or gurgling when doing that, but maybe I'm just lucky or something. It would seem to make sense to me simply to keep the liquid away from the top seal which is probably the weakest seal in a clearo since there are two seals and it gets opened and closed each time it gets filled. All of this is based on assumptions based on ignorance of vaping and a little mechanical knowledge of course and can be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[grego66]

I'm lost. When you say hold it vertically, where is the mouth piece? Away from the floor or closer to the floor.

If you hold it upside down, (mouthpiece closer to the floor) the juice will travel the wick faster to coil, and yes, can flood the coil. That's what causes the gurgling, some juice traveling the airtube back to the battery and juice coming in your mouth. That's why top coil clearos are so finicky, you have to find the perfect way to hold them, and tilt them just right and just long enough. Then the manufacturers have to figure out how to stop or limit the flooding (they use those rubber seals around the ceramic cup) without cutting off the flow to the coils. That's why you see so many people modding them, especially the ce2 and even the top coil ce3. They cut the silicone seal to allow the wicks better flow or turn the seal to stop the flow. Too much work if you ask me.

I actually think that si did a good job with (I assume VISION) on designing the new clearos. They seam to have the cup seal just right. Of course, different juices will affect it differently. Thick juices will have a harder time wicking and something like 100% pg will possibly flood. I would almost guarantee that most of the complaints about them, whether it be dry hits or flooding, are caused by the juice viscosity.

Sorry for carrying this on in this thread but I have to say I think you are bang on about the juice viscosity. It might be worth putting this info in the other thread about them because I think you have hit the nail. One juice I get no problems after the initial blow through after filling, different juice I get problems, not a major problem but enough for it to be a faff.

 

[Mroutlaw]

Well, maybe I'm confused (nothing new about that at all) about which is top and which is bottom. In my feable mind, the bottom is the battery end and the top the mouthpiece end. I realize that the filler is spongelike and that the liquid osmoses toward the dryer end, ie the end being heated, and that gravity, in the relatively short time a carto is used, probably has very little effect. On the other hand (there's a thumb and four fingers) every little bit can help to make the experience nicer. I do normally have a clearo laying flat on an end table or desk, but if I'm walking the dog or working around the yard or out in the car, it is generally battery end down in my cell phone pouch. I've never had flooding or gurgling when doing that, but maybe I'm just lucky or something. It would seem to make sense to me simply to keep the liquid away from the top seal which is probably the weakest seal in a clearo since it gets opened and closed each time it gets filled. All this is based on assumptions based on ignorance of vaping and a little mechanical knowledge of course.

Ok, I think we are hitting in all three somehow (probably my fault). Let's take them one at a time

Si carto- bottom coil.
Reason it doesn't leak no matter how you hold it is because the poly fill is like a sponge. It holds the juice in. If you overfill, the juice will flood the battery because there is an opening on the bottom where the bottom of the carto and coil meet the battery (thus how you can do a condom fill from the battery side.

The clearo - top coil

It usually leaks for two reasons. Either (a) the drip tip is not making a good seal with the cup seal (inner rubber gasket) or (b) the juice is flooding the coil.

In A, the juice can flow up the sides and into the slight gap between the drip tip and cup seal. It will come in your mouth if you turn it upside down. If you turn it rightside up, then whatever juice accumulated in that gap will flow down the air tube to the battery.
In (b). The juice pools in the drip cup. The excess juice then flows in your mouth or down the tube. That's why it's so important to get that seal over the wicks just right. If it allows too much juice to flow to the coil, it floods. Because everything is sealed off from the bottom of the drip tip touching the cup seal, it has to flow somewhere. Trying to vape it out causes the gurgling

The bc ce3 is basically a bc coil with no filler and a tiny wick wrapped by the coil. That's why you have to fill it upside down, it causes a vacuum. If you fill it right side up, the juice would run down and through the gap in the bottom (same as the carto) and onto the battery.

 

[cindycated]

haha, I think you guys just missed the back story a little bit...
I was addressing that, and you guys jumped in with the mechanics of something else. Then it got confusing. I was just trying to get it back on track to address the original issue at hand...

 

[Mroutlaw]

haha, I think you guys just missed the back story a little bit...
I was addressing that, and you guys jumped in with the mechanics of something else. Then it got confusing. I was just trying to get it back on track to address the original issue at hand...

Lol Cindy, like I said, probably my fault

 

[cindycated]

Lol Cindy, like I said, probably my fault

You're just too smart, Mroutlaw! You should try dumbing down a little, like me!

 

[Mroutlaw]

Well, I think I got to where you were. Like I said, I think most of the problems that people have with clearos is a direct result of the type of juice that they are using.

It's not their fault, it's just that the clearos react differently with different viscosity juices.

And those problems are not limited to just the SI clearo. It seems like these same issues happen with anything that is top coil. Clearos, Stardust, Vivi nova, top coil ce3, ce2 - they all have the same issue. It's not the fault of the retailer (ie smokeless image), it's not even the manufacturers fault. Think about what we are asking for. We want a tube, with no sponge, that must have a hole in both ends, to hold in a liquid and not leak. It sounds ludicrous when you think about it like that. Oh and to top it off, we want it NOW. As consumers, we don't even want to give the manufacturers time to actually test the product. Then we complain because we basically become the test. If we would give them the time to test products, we would all be screaming where is our new device.

Just look at SI and the new ce3. They wanted to design a product that didn't need a syringe, but we all started yelling "we want it now" (I have a feeling I had something to do with that) so now they are releasing the version that needs a syringe. I can guarantee you some of us will be screaming that we hate the fact that you need a syringe when they come out next week