Ask your favorite suppliers to remove diacetyl from their e-liquids!

[shanagan]

I agree - it bothered me that the rep freedomsmoke (a supplier that i have great respect for) when askede about diacetyl came back with basically its only a little bit and a few flavors - I don't really believe that represents the owners views entirely - and it it does we need to change them. Flavorart is the only major flavoring company that we have heard from that still uses diacetyl - and it IS only a few flavors that we normally make e-juice out of and so it is just a few flavors that vendors that use flavorart flavorings need to substitute with another - I do not see that as asking too much.

Perfumers Apprentice wrote me that within a couple of weeks she will add a section to her website listing ingredients and the manufacturing process they go through. All suppliers should be willing to do this. There are many ingredients that are use in these that caused problems to the lungs. I know SimpleeSims and others were having some problems with Cinnamon flavorings - and after just reading the Wikipedia listing on cinnamon - I wonder if this wonderful flavor quite common ingredient in food should be vaped.

Which is another problem we have - we may know something is safe to eat - but we may not know if it is safe to vape.

Hard to say that was a representative - it was posted under the owner's handle. :\

 

[kushka]

It's my understanding that food products can't even be repackaged or rebottled without meeting health and safety codes. So even if she uses a lab to develop the flavors she still uses her home to house and bottle them.

I thought I made it clear in my post - they are bottled at the plant - she said she would disclose the whole manufacturing process on her website.

 

[SimpleSins]

Hard to say that was a representative - it was posted under the owner's handle. :\

And just to be clear, although Kushka shortened it to just freedomsmoke, it was NOT My Freedom Smoke who was dismissive of the diacetyl question or, seemingly, safety in general as the one Kushka mentioned felt "probably everything is bad for us."

 

[bpaulette]

where is the list, i want to see what ones have it

It was posted earlier in the thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ove-diacetyl-their-e-liquids.html#post2008305

 

[shanagan]

I had posted this elsewhere, but the thread was removed as being a duplicate (it was in the health forum) - I don't know if that list from FA is fully complete, or more accurately, I wonder when it was updated as they introduce new flavors. A new as of Feb '10 flavor in FlavourArt's lineup is Cappuccino. It features a creamy milk & coffee flavor. One can only surmise that is reached by blending coffee, cream or milk, and other flavors to create a cappuccino flavored blend. Each of which also contains diacetyl.

 

[GoodDog]

I thought I made it clear in my post - they are bottled at the plant - she said she would disclose the whole manufacturing process on her website.

Thanks Kushka. I wouldn't think she receives her flavorings in everything from dram size bottles all the way to gallon size bottles from her supplier. I imagine she receives it in bulk and rebottles it. I also imagine the molecules she sells comes to her in bulk. Does she have safety standards in place to ensure there's no contamination and is her facility inspected?

Flavoring companies that follow the FDA guidelines for food safety do the necessary QC and reserve batches so it's possible to trace any problem to what batch it came from and who it was sent to. Does she have those precautions in place? What if a contaminated batch was sent to several eLiquid vendors and they used it in their recipes? It could be a disaster. At least we should take precautions where they are available - like with food flavorings. Just because her supplier follows cGMP doesn't mean she doesn't have to.

 

[shanagan]

A question. We've zeroed in on FA as using diacetyl in their flavorings thanks to their transparency, but are there others?

 

[kushka]

And just to be clear, although Kushka shortened it to just freedomsmoke, it was NOT My Freedom Smoke who was dismissive of the diacetyl question or, seemingly, safety in general as the one Kushka mentioned felt "probably everything is bad for us."

You are misquoting me I never said " "probably everything is bad for us."

I said:
"I agree - it bothered me that the rep freedomsmoke (a supplier that i have great respect for) when askede about diacetyl came back with basically its only a little bit and a few flavors - I don't really believe that represents the owners views entirely –"


And I was refering to this post by mauisun:

my thoughts on this, like everything else humans consume is, probably everything is bad for us. from the air we breathe to the water we drink. Max, the owner of FlavourART has a phd in biochemistry and is a phenomenol chemist in his own right. He takes the utmost care when creating ingredients for vapers. Actually most of their products do not contain diacetyl. And the ones that do the amounts are trace.
heck vaping in genereal may not be all that excellent for your body but one thing I do know, analog smokes are thousands of times worse for you.

 

[SimpleSins]

You are misquoting me I never said " "probably everything is bad for us."

I said:
"I agree - it bothered me that the rep freedomsmoke (a supplier that i have great respect for) when askede about diacetyl came back with basically its only a little bit and a few flavors - I don't really believe that represents the owners views entirely –"


And I was refering to this post by mauisun:

If you read my post, I didn't say "Kushka mentioned," I said the one Kushka mentioned (as in freedomsmoke).

And mausun has always presented that screen name as one of the owners, not merely a representative.

 

[SimpleSins]

A question. We've zeroed in on FA as using diacetyl in their flavorings thanks to their transparency, but are there others?

There are a couple that do not have any...Capella's does not, TPA says they don't. And it's worth noting that many many of Flavourarts flavorings do not have diacetyl. Most of Decadent Vapour's flavorings are diacetyl free (I believe coconut is one that still has it).

And it really is not even so much the matter of them having it, but the not disclosing it and downplaying its use is pretty dismal. Remember the shock and outrage we all felt to find out everything that was in our cigarettes? What makes it any better in our eliquid? It only takes one quickly horribly toxic ingredient to put eliquid on an equal footing with the slowly-toxic 4000 ingredients of tobacco, and glossing it over should offend everyone here who resented it when they found out all the stuff in their cigarettes.

 

[kushka]

Oh - I Did not think she was the owner since she/he stated "Max, the owner of FlavourART " so I thought she/he was just an underling

I normally do not read freedomsmokes web - it was just I was following this thread and since it started out being published in 3 places - one of them freedomsmoke -

I wish I hadn't mentioned them at all - because of all the attacks of suppliers going on here we need to heed banjo:

"Please! Let's all be really careful that this doesn't turn into a witch hunt.......... "

 

[shanagan]

There are a couple that do not have any...Capella's does know, TPA says they don't. And it's worth noting that many many of Flavourarts flavorings do not have diacetyl. Most of Decadent Vapour's flavorings are diacetyl free (I believe coconut is one that still has it).

And it really is not even so much the matter of them having it, but the not disclosing it and downplaying its use is pretty dismal. Remember the shock and outrage we all felt to find out everything that was in our cigarettes? What makes it any better in our eliquid? It only takes one quickly horribly toxic ingredient to put eliquid on an equal footing with the slowly-toxic 4000 ingredients of tobacco, and glossing it over should offend everyone here who resented it when they found out all the stuff in their cigarettes.

I agree - but on the issue of many of FA's flavorings not containing it, as I mentioned in an above post - I wouldn't be so quick to assume because it isn't on the list that it doesn't contain diacetyl - cappuccino being the example I used above.

Then further muddy the waters by a juice vendor blending their own flavor mixes.. For instance "if" cappuccino does indeed contain a blend of their coffee & milk flavor (listed as having diacetyl) but cappuccino is not yet on the list.. it simply means the list may not be current. so "if" that is the case - a vendor might think "Ok, good! this one is diacetyl-free, I'm going to blend it with a (presumably) diacetyl-free tobacco flavor (I notice that none of their tobacco flavors are listed, either)" are you actually getting a diacetyl-free vape?

I think it's becoming increasingly clear that we as a community need to make it CRYSTAL clear that we want to know, and we want the flavoring companies to keep an iron-clad up-to-date list going.

 

[kushka]

There are a couple that do not have any...Capella's does know, TPA says they don't. And it's worth noting that many many of Flavourarts flavorings do not have diacetyl. Most of Decadent Vapour's flavorings are diacetyl free (I believe coconut is one that still has it).

LorAnn also has posted on their website they do not use diacetyl - thus there is really no excuse for a vendor to use it - because it even if they perfer flavorart - they can use all but flavorarts buttery? creamy? flavors and use the others for the few flavors that flavorart uses diacetryl in.

I am vaping LorAnns Butter-rum today - which is very buttery and (according to website has no diacetyl)

 

[shanagan]

I've emailed FlavourArt to find out if their list of diacetyl containing flavorings is complete and up to date. Of course I will let you know when I receive a response.

 

[Dkrom68]

Have no fear Backwoods Brew uses No liquids that contain Diacetyl. All of my flavorings are from suppliers that dont use it except for Flavourart but the only ones I use by them do not contain it.

 

[shanagan]

Have no fear Backwoods Brew uses No liquids that contain Diacetyl. All of my flavorings are from suppliers that dont use it except for Flavourart but the only ones I use by them do not contain it.

Thanks so much for the info!

 

[markarich159]

No, we swear our products contain no Diacetyl. Ooops, wait a minute, the flavor supplier we use has already admitted that their flavors DO contain diacetyl. Uh, Um, uh, well we swear , uh no, scratch that, we think, that the levels are safe- yeah that sounds good. Have we done any studies or have any evidence they are safe to vape. Uh, um, uh , well no , but the levels are low(we think). Um, have I mentioned we're just a small mom & pop trying to survive and make a buck, no one told us that this was actually going to take some level of chemical/pharmacological/toxicological knowledge or responsibilty- Uh oh, did I say that out loud. Oops. Did you see our handy-dandy little legal disclaimer. What was that, do we have any product liability insurance just in case anything should happen. Um, Hey look there's Elvis!!!!

Wake up vaping consumers. For the 2nd time this week, as a healthcare professional, I'll turn your attention to this post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/decadentvapours/123435-diacetyl-question.html

Unless your supplier can answer questions like the diacetyl question with as much knowledge and confidence as this supplier OR provide you with a certified MSDS showing their products ingredient listing. Stay away - it's that simple. I'll leave you with this to think about.

YouTube - OSHA Hearing: Eric Peoples' testimony

Brochiolitis Obliterans is an aggressive, quickly progressive, chronic lung condition where the small airways in your lungs(bronchioles) are destroyed and replaced with non-functioning scar and inflammatory tissue. There is no cure, short of pulmonary transplant, and that is a very unpleasant and, in itself, incredibly life shortening option.

If I'm going to die of causes of pulmonary origin, I'd rather say I took my chances smoking fully knowing(and taking responsibilty for) the consequences; not thinking I was being "healthier" vaping & finding out some unregulated home brew eliquid manufacturer irresponsibly and without disclosure(& without taking the time to become educated about the product THEY were producing) quickly destroyed my lung tissue by selling me a product containing a known, aggressive pulmonary toxin - knowing I was going to use that product via direct concentrated pulmonary inhalation(that's no better then the analog cigarette companies).

P.S. This post was not intended as a knock on any manufacturer that has done their homework and taken the time to ensure a diacetyl free product(in fact, I applaud these manufacturers efforts and responsibilty) - This post was focused on the other manufacturers(and , unfortunately, only they know who they are)

 

[Jeff Eaton]

smokie[/LEFT];2013563]Hello

Smokie​

This is Jeffrey from WordupEcig Super Store
I Assure you that Diacetyl is not an ingredient in our eliquids.

Thank you smokie for Posting my response to you.
Again I assure all of you Laurin Does not include in her liquids Diacetyl.
As I told Smokie I was A chef for 16 years before WordupEcig Was Founded and the health inspector would come to my kitchen Unannounced 2 to 3 times a year to make sure proper sanitary actions are being taken.
Same with Laurin being a Pharmacists the DEA would come in and close the Pharmacy and check everything to make sure all clients are getting the correct RX and to make sure again that proper sanitary procedures are being taken.
So if you are going to mix liquid you should be held to the same standards.
I am sure a lot of you will not agree with me on unannounced inspections. But if you sell, mix or pure nicotine & Flavors you/we should all be held to this standers of Unannounced inspections it is how we can assure a safe proper e-liquid for our clients weather it be 1mg or 100mg, this will also weed out the Ham & Eggers as my dad would call them "lol"
Thank you all and no hard feelings
Jeffrey & Laurin

 

[GoodDog]

With regards to flavorings. Does anyone else see the potential harm when a company buys from a flavoring manufacturer, then rebottles it to sell to the public or to wholesalers who then rebottle it to sell to DIYers? By the time it gets to us it's been handled 3 times and only the first complied with health and safety regulations. Personally I feel safer buying it directly from an FDA approved, USP standard manufacturer and bypassing the other handlers.

 

[Seabrook]

........

Wake up vaping consumers. ..........

........

Unless your supplier can answer questions like the diacetyl question with as much knowledge and confidence as this supplier OR provide you with a certified MSDS showing their products ingredient listing. Stay away - it's that simple. I'll leave you with this to think about.

........

Brochiolitis Obliterans is an aggressive, quickly progressive, chronic lung condition where the small airways in your lungs(bronchioles) are destroyed and replaced with non-functioning scar and inflammatory tissue. There is no cure, short of pulmonary transplant, and that is a very unpleasant and, in itself, incredibly life shortening option.

................. & finding out some unregulated home brew eliquid manufacturer irresponsibly and without disclosure(& without taking the time to become educated about the product THEY were producing) quickly destroyed my lung tissue by selling me a product containing a known, aggressive pulmonary toxin - knowing I was going to use that product via direct concentrated pulmonary inhalation(that's no better then the analog cigarette companies).

Markarich -- we are so privileged to have you here on ECF. Thanks for the eye-opener from a dedicated credentialed professional.

Rolygate -- Thanks for caring so much and for your research into this truly critical matter.

Speaking for myself, I think your posts say it all. Now that I've quit smoking, I would hate to have it all snuffed away by misinformed e-liquid vendors and flavor hobbyists. Thank you both so much.