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Best tobacco for flavor extraction

Discussion in 'Liquid Extraction From Tobacco' started by Str8vision, Oct 11, 2014.

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  1. kocmat

    kocmat Full Member

    Apr 17, 2009
    Bulgaria
    A question to Str8 and the other old dogs here.
    My limited observations are that after the initial stepping when individual characteristics of tobacco start to show, the tobacco extract starts to age in manner similar to jarred tobacco (but at a much faster rate). Virginias and Va/Pers become more sweet, less grassy, etc.
    So my question is about Latakia. Latakia is known for loosing strength over time, becoming more smoky and less punchy.
    Have you noticed similar behavior in a well aged juice?
     
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  2. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    I've personally never noticed a decline in flavor or intensity from any NET, quite the opposite most seem to gain strength and depth of flavor as time passes. Several of my favorite NETs require many months of aging before reaching their prime. One notable exception was NET made from Sutliff's flavored aromatic tobacco blend "Molto Dolce", a delicious heavily flavored NET (something like an RY-4) when freshly mixed but it does lose flavor over a short period time becoming somewhat bland.

    I have noticed that my ability to taste certain flavors diminishes the longer I vape that specific flavor. Some people seem to suffer this malady quicker than others, I'm one of them. I'll even lose the ability to taste robust, smoky Latakia after just a few days unless I rotate it with "different" tobacco flavors throughout the week. Rotation requires a person possess multiple distinctly different tobacco flavors and was one of the reasons I created this thread. Variety -is- the spice of life....well, at least when it comes to NETs ;)
     
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  3. 67Tele

    67Tele Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2014
    Austin
    My first batch of American Spirit pouch tobaccos took a full year to reach maturity. I was about to give up on them but, glad I waited. I too have to vary having three mods going at the same time with different blends and an overstuffed cabinet of differents.
     
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  4. 67Tele

    67Tele Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2014
    Austin
    I've not had much luck with cigar extractions with only a couple yielding satisfying flavor. Mixed in May I'm just now trying Partagas 1845 and I think after a few more months it's going to get much fuller. Maybe it was because I was vaping it with my morning coffee the flavor was enhanced but, the described taste is there.
     
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  5. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    Sounds familiar. I've gone back to many liquids I gave up on to find them irresistible. Some taste much better in different setups too. That's just the way the ball bounces in this "game." :2c:
     
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  6. yourgurnard

    yourgurnard Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2015
    London
    I still reckon that My Latakia's losing its 'poke' tho'.......went with Str8's explanation of it being a taste-bud thang......but My 'Old Holborn' & other juices don't seem to lose potency like the Lat does.......
     
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  7. kocmat

    kocmat Full Member

    Apr 17, 2009
    Bulgaria
    Thank you! I was referring to changes in flavor not decline of strength.
    Imagine a graph with a sharp pike. As time goes on the pike becomes shorter (Latakia loses punch) and wider (gets more woody, leathery). This happens with tobacco in tins, but if you haven't noticed such behavior I can feel safe for my NETs.
    Not that they will ever age :D My wine is young and I drink it straight from the barrel :D :D :D
    'Poke' is the right term! :D
     
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  8. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    I was a -heavy- smoker for almost half a century. I'm not sure what few taste buds I have left work well enough to serve as a definitive guide for others. Could be the flavor notes do change and I just can't tell the difference.:blush:

    Also, I should point out I currently only use ethanol to extract flavor. Those who use hot PG run the risk of over-processing the tobacco which can harm flavor. I know this because back when I used hot PG for the extraction solvent I ruined several extracts made from tobacco I knew was good (my favorites). Too hot for too long can muddy the flavor and aging it only makes it worse. I never had a cold soak go bad which is why I recommend long term room temperature extractions if/when PG and or VG are used for the solvent.

    I've extracted hundreds of tobaccos/blends but less than two dozen of those impressed me enough to make my "list". Only 5% of the different tobaccos I've sampled produced what I considered to be stellar flavor (around 1 in 20). The others ranged from pretty good to... blah. Tobaccos that don't make the cut are dumped. Those rare tobaccos that do make my list are extracted in large quantities, concentrated, purified, filtered and then the finished extract is placed in long term storage (freezer). For use, I mix a half pint (6 ounce) quantity of a specific NET and store it at room temperature (cool) in a dark aging cabinet for several months before needing or using it. Once removed from the aging cabinet, a fresh batch of that NET is mixed and placed in the aging cabinet to replace it. So far, none of my favorites have seemed to diminish in flavor or intensity over time. They seem to get better with age which is why I have an aging cabinet. I like NET to be at least three months old before using it.
     
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  9. 67Tele

    67Tele Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2014
    Austin
    I too was a heavy smoker for 45 years and now, after a little over three years cig free, I think my taste buds have finally wandered back in from the wilderness. Noticing this not only with vapes but with coffee, etc.

    I need to get to the winnowing down stage. I have favorites that I keep going back to and way too many that could be discarded without much remorse.

    Also agree with you on cabinet time with three months being a good testing point. Man, this whole business takes time. And patience. And planning.

    I have about nine that I'm filtering next weekend. Some new, some replenish.
     
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  10. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    :headbang:
     
  11. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    This may seem odd to some, but it works for me and maybe you also. Over time the small bottles of extract I keep handy for refills loose some punch. So I go to the basement and uncover the 16oz jars of that liquid, dump the small bottle of extract and refill it. Bam, it is fine again.
    Now what happens if the big jar has lost some flavor over the year? I have found that if I set aside some of the tobacco, in the freezer, I just add it to the big jar, shake it once a week for a month or so and refilter it. the juice is like new again! Try it, you'll like it! :pervy:
     
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  12. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    Sale for those that could use some liquid from N-E-T.com:



    Announcing our WINTER HOLIDAY SALE!! This will be our last sale for the year 2017, and each order will be receiving 15 % off!!
    Sale will start now 12/19/17 through 11:59pm CST 12/21/17!

    As usual this discount will be applied at checkout!

    Thank you from your N-E-T Team!
     
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  13. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
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  14. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    Heads up for a sale on eliquids:

    [​IMG]

    Announcing our NEW YEARS 2018 SALE!!
    All orders will be receiving 15% off!! Sale will start now 01/04/18 through 11:59pm CST 01/07/18 !
    As usual this discount will be applied at checkout!
     
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  15. bover907

    bover907 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 5, 2014
    Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
    Ok, so pretty soon, I'm going to gather up the supplies needed to do my first N.E.T. extraction. I've read extensively through this section, and I think I can get a handle on how to do it all.

    My only problem is..... I don't really know Squat about tobacco. I know I love the aroma of unsmoked cigarette and pibe tobaccos. I used to love the smell when My Pop used to smoke a pipe, and I enjoy the smell of cigars, but I couldn't tell you anything about weather something is Virginia, Burley, etc.

    So, if I loved the smell of Captain Black, or something like that, should I just pick up some of that? Perhaps if I end up in a better tobacco shop, should I just sniff around the jars until I find one I really like?

    I used to love to take a big whiff of the bag of RYO, when I used to smoke, and make my own cigs, but I've heard that RYO extractions come out tasting grassy.

    Just don't know where to start in the selection department.
     
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  16. 67Tele

    67Tele Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2014
    Austin
    My suggestion, based on 2 1/2 years or trying different blends, is to get a collection of single varietals to see what the main components taste like. Then either experiment mixing them together or find tobacco blends that have the components you prefer. I'd also get several different American Spirit pipe tobaccos for your cigarette fix.

    I'm sure you'll get other helpful suggestions.
     
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  17. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    Keep in mind the eliquid will most likely not smell like the raw tobacco. It will not taste like it does smoked. As we all have found out, it takes trial and error to find what works with extractions.
    67Tele has a good idea where to start. Afterwards, get back here to check with us as to the next step after your evaluation of those he recommended. ;)
     
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  18. 67Tele

    67Tele Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2014
    Austin
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  19. nostradadus

    nostradadus Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 6, 2014
    Reporting back on the G.L. Pease ~ Stonehenge Flake, after a 6 month cold steep. This is a very nice Va/Per with a pleasantly full flavored Burley kicker; very satisfying ADV.

    GL Pease Stonehenge Flake 2oz | Smokingpipes.com

    I played around with my maceration technique and solvents on this one; very happy with the outcome.

    Started the maceration off with 1oz of tobacco in PG, warmed at 125 degrees for 8 hours. After the cook, I added 50ml of PGA to the maceration, sealed the jar, gave it a good shake (and once a month for good measure) to blend the solvents and sent it off to the steep closet for 6 months.

    Prior to filtering, the PGA content in the maceration was reduced via evaporation, by roughly 40%. After the filtering process (2.5 micron), the extract was then mixed with my base at 15%.

    I feel this hybrid solvent technique brightened up the outcome of my usual PG maceration considerably; also, no discernible PGA flavor note in the vape.

    No matter your maceration technique, the GLP Stonehenge Flake is one for the keeper/cellar list, if you like a Va/Per with plenty body.
     
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  20. PeterRamish
    This message by PeterRamish has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Jan 10, 2018, Reason: Unregistered Supplier.
    Jan 10, 2018
  21. MSK421

    MSK421 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 17, 2017
    Fort Worth, Texas
    It has been a year that I started (cold/pg) extraction. 6 weeks, areo-press fine filter and 2/3 paper coffee filters. Mix testers (80vg/20pg no nic) 30ml, 10/12/15%. After finding the proper %s for each NET it is mixed to 120ml and aged/steeped for 6+ weeks. RTAs (vcmt/Erebus), ss316l, chimney (bvc) coils, id on coil jig depends on net used; example cig is 2, cigar is 3. Ohm .8 +/- .05.

    Ohm natural: cigarette, 15%, little to no sweetness Va/Per.
    Brairworks' Back Down South: cigarette/pipeish, 15%, Va/Per with a mild whiskey (bourbon) flavor.
    Barley Light without Bite: pipe, 12%, earthy/nut.
    Ryeback Regular: pipe/cig, 12%, grassy/hay.
    Louisiana Red: pipe, 12%, smokey, wood, plum.
    Acadian Perique: pipe, 12%, smokey, wood, plum with a very light sweetness. A smooth version of the La Red.
    Cohiba: cigar, 10%, straight bold cohiba cigar with a better flavor profile.
    Billy Bud: cigar, 10%, straight bold cigar.
    Night Cap: pipe/cigar/cig, 10%, a complex blend, bold tobacco with chocolate, creme(custard?), earthy, nut ect.

    Two of these tobaccos I've combusted, when I did that, and found more flavor now than before. I will be adding more tobaccos to the list but for now I have a year+ supply and an excellent choice of different tobacco flavor to choose from.

    For those of you wanting to diy nets start NOW! It takes time and before long you're ready to filter and test. The longer you wait to start the longer it takes to get to test ect. Pick tobaccos that appeal to you or suggested in this thread. You will not be disappointed.
     
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