until the gov't steps in and declares it is an essential service and makes them go back to work 
Canada Postal Strike Set for Thursday
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May 31, 2011
CPC Says “NO”
Today we met with the CPC bargaining committee to receive their response to our final offer. At the meeting, which lasted less than 10 minutes, the Employer stated that they were rejecting our offer in its entirety. Basically they said nothing more than what was contained in their press statement of yesterday. The only exception was that they acknowledged we had moved dramatically on some issues.
CPC Prefers Media Messages to Negotiations
Instead of negotiating with the Union, CPC issued a statement commenting on the importance of postal service to rural residents, seniors and small businesses. In their statement, they also say they are 'offering employees better pay and benefits than they currently enjoy.'
They do not say:
*
They are demanding an end to sick leave for all employees and the imposition of a short-term disability plan that provides inadequate coverage for short term illnesses and threatens medical privacy;
*
They have been attempting to reduce service in rural areas;
*
They have not responded to the Union's proposals to extend door-to-door delivery service to seniors and persons with mobility restrictions;
*
They have rejected all of our proposals to follow the example of other postal administrations and diversify into financial and banking services;
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They are demanding a starting wage, which is 22% less than the current starting rate.
CUPW Meets With Labour Minister Raitt
Today, we also met with the Federal Minister of Labour, Lisa Raitt. She suggested she would organize a meeting with CPC President Deepak Chopra for tomorrow. We agreed to the meeting. At the time of writing this alert, no time has been set for the meeting.
CPC Says “NO”
Today we met with the CPC bargaining committee to receive their response to our final offer. At the meeting, which lasted less than 10 minutes, the Employer stated that they were rejecting our offer in its entirety. Basically they said nothing more than what was contained in their press statement of yesterday. The only exception was that they acknowledged we had moved dramatically on some issues.
CPC Prefers Media Messages to Negotiations
Instead of negotiating with the Union, CPC issued a statement commenting on the importance of postal service to rural residents, seniors and small businesses. In their statement, they also say they are 'offering employees better pay and benefits than they currently enjoy.'
They do not say:
*
They are demanding an end to sick leave for all employees and the imposition of a short-term disability plan that provides inadequate coverage for short term illnesses and threatens medical privacy;
*
They have been attempting to reduce service in rural areas;
*
They have not responded to the Union's proposals to extend door-to-door delivery service to seniors and persons with mobility restrictions;
*
They have rejected all of our proposals to follow the example of other postal administrations and diversify into financial and banking services;
*
They are demanding a starting wage, which is 22% less than the current starting rate.
CUPW Meets With Labour Minister Raitt
Today, we also met with the Federal Minister of Labour, Lisa Raitt. She suggested she would organize a meeting with CPC President Deepak Chopra for tomorrow. We agreed to the meeting. At the time of writing this alert, no time has been set for the meeting.
I'm 100% behind the workers on this one.
The "raise" the union wants is only about the cost of living, so the workers are not losing their wage to inflation. Not like Canada Post doesnt have the PROFIT to MAINTIAN their workers wage.
The workers have 5 sick days as it stands now, and the company wants to take that away. Workem sick or not, there is nothing more important like ones health. You wouldnt treat a horse like that as a self respecting human.
It is sickening that a public company that we all own is run by a bunch of business school idiots that were foolish enough to believe what they were taught, that a meaningless profit is more important than human decency.
Plague on them.
Ok I now am siding too with the workers. I had no idea that this was the reason for the strike. I get it now, BIGTIME! For someone who has been in the postal worker's position, as I was put on stress leave from my job for being over worked and underpaid as a store manager, I can sympathize completely. Not to mention the 22 percent decrease in wage, sick days, as well as not helping seniors and people with mobility issues. For someone with a disability myself, one that you can't see, I find it discriminating that this company refuses to not take people with disabilities into consideration. I have a huge disresepct now for Canada Post. May the strike begin!
All I can say about paid sick lease is: Boo Hoo..... no sick leave...... puuleeese !! Welcome to the real world. Try working in private industry or trades at low entry wages, hell, even once your certified or established, and talk of sick leave, holiday pay, fair treatment and healthy work conditions, that's right..... there are none beyond EI, workers comp, or private insurance, labour laws, and human rights..... unless your unionized, which makes you hardly a productive worker while under the guise of protected employment in an already over paid position considering the work being done......
However, on one hand I agree its improper in this unionized contract situation of "removing" an already in place perk while profits are being made at higher levels, while on the other hand if they are only making the amendment for future employment then so be it. New prospective employees have a choice to accept it or look for employment elsewhere.
Employee's are just numbers in any large business, they come and they go, some good & some not so good. But I'm an old school believer that wages should be based on merit and workmanship, not a contract stipulation saying the "position" is worth X amount of dollars. There's no true answer of right or wrong when unions are involved as they are part of (in todays world of workplace labour laws, and safe workplace regulations), the contention of corruption in itself leading to unnecessary cost escalations (wages, perks, benefits), that only harm the consumer..... and is regardless of overall profits including asset accumulation that are on quarterly reports.
I've left many jobs/careers because of being unsatisfied with the perceived treatment, or over earnings of worth, by my own choice to find more suitable employment. But I can tell you..... I have also refused many union jobs based on trying that once, didn't like being told to slow down while earning the same high pay as joe schmo lazy .... who couldn't produce an honest days work if his life depended on it, yet protected by that union label.
This is "my" rant......... I'm not looking for debate on my statements, its how I feel and no one will change my mind regardless of their argument. I've seen enough abuse of employment secured jobs through unions in all levels of govt and construction union halls and it makes me sick "personally" because of my own moral belief that you get paid to WORK, not show up and to be coddled with wasteful perks and overpaid slacker expectations because of a contract. And yes.... I have quite a few acquaintances that work for Canada Post, from contractors to delivery persons to sorters, so I've been to their work locations and seen the way things are behind those big closed doors, and the general attitudes and performance disgusts me.
PEACE
However, on one hand I agree its improper in this unionized contract situation of "removing" an already in place perk while profits are being made at higher levels, while on the other hand if they are only making the amendment for future employment then so be it. New prospective employees have a choice to accept it or look for employment elsewhere.
Employee's are just numbers in any large business, they come and they go, some good & some not so good. But I'm an old school believer that wages should be based on merit and workmanship, not a contract stipulation saying the "position" is worth X amount of dollars. There's no true answer of right or wrong when unions are involved as they are part of (in todays world of workplace labour laws, and safe workplace regulations), the contention of corruption in itself leading to unnecessary cost escalations (wages, perks, benefits), that only harm the consumer..... and is regardless of overall profits including asset accumulation that are on quarterly reports.
I've left many jobs/careers because of being unsatisfied with the perceived treatment, or over earnings of worth, by my own choice to find more suitable employment. But I can tell you..... I have also refused many union jobs based on trying that once, didn't like being told to slow down while earning the same high pay as joe schmo lazy .... who couldn't produce an honest days work if his life depended on it, yet protected by that union label.
This is "my" rant......... I'm not looking for debate on my statements, its how I feel and no one will change my mind regardless of their argument. I've seen enough abuse of employment secured jobs through unions in all levels of govt and construction union halls and it makes me sick "personally" because of my own moral belief that you get paid to WORK, not show up and to be coddled with wasteful perks and overpaid slacker expectations because of a contract. And yes.... I have quite a few acquaintances that work for Canada Post, from contractors to delivery persons to sorters, so I've been to their work locations and seen the way things are behind those big closed doors, and the general attitudes and performance disgusts me.
PEACE
On the one hand -
Unions tend to get carried away and out of touch with real situations - sometimes to the point of stabbing the hand that feeds them. That's not good for anyone.
On the other hand -
The only people left in the working world with any rights and somewhat decent pay are unionized workers. We end up with places like wally-world - where the company supports major food banks in spite that the majority of their workers are so badly paid they need the food banks to survive.
On the issue of Canada Post - taking away sick leave is absurd! Even the most slave driven businesses allow their workers to call in sick. Short term disability does NOT cover 2 days off with a raging temperature and a horrible case of the flu.
A crown corporation needs to do a bit better by their workers than that. Hey - any corporation needs to do better than that. Even Wally-world does better than that.
Do you really believe that your postal delivery worker should be handling your mail while vomiting with chills and beads of sweat from a fever - or hardly able to walk - while sneezing all over your parcels and letters??? That's not normal.
Unions tend to get carried away and out of touch with real situations - sometimes to the point of stabbing the hand that feeds them. That's not good for anyone.
On the other hand -
The only people left in the working world with any rights and somewhat decent pay are unionized workers. We end up with places like wally-world - where the company supports major food banks in spite that the majority of their workers are so badly paid they need the food banks to survive.
On the issue of Canada Post - taking away sick leave is absurd! Even the most slave driven businesses allow their workers to call in sick. Short term disability does NOT cover 2 days off with a raging temperature and a horrible case of the flu.
A crown corporation needs to do a bit better by their workers than that. Hey - any corporation needs to do better than that. Even Wally-world does better than that.
Do you really believe that your postal delivery worker should be handling your mail while vomiting with chills and beads of sweat from a fever - or hardly able to walk - while sneezing all over your parcels and letters??? That's not normal.
compared to everybody else in the economy... they get fantastic benefits, sick time, saved sick days, pensions at 55, vacation time, excuses for not being fired, etc, etc etc..... I'm not sure why they're striking because
They've got it made
Dont bite that hand that feeds you..... if this goes longer than 2 days...
They've got it made
Dont bite that hand that feeds you..... if this goes longer than 2 days...
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I agree wholeheartdly with you Kat. without that security, not to mention the postal workers who have to go out in -45 celsius weather and +45 celsius weather for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, to ensure we get our parcels, should not have to fear or lose pay of their job for getting ill. that is absurd indeed. I don't know much about unions as I have never worked for one, but I can tell you that the labor board does not protect as good as they say they do either, nor does occupational health and safety. I did not realize it but when I was a manager at the petstore, I was expected to work 14 hour days 30 days in a row but only getting paid for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, stats, omg u name it, if there was no one to cover. and yes I did that. I tried to get my straight pay, not overtime pay from the labour board, but they would not allow it cuz managers are exempt from labor standards! I worked approximately 7 months at that job and when I left I had 180 hours OT. Is that fair? I almost ended up in hospital, and my liver was doing funky things, when I went into the doctor complaing from being over worked. That was my only saving grace for being allowed to quit my job and go on EI. cuz you cant quit unless its detrimental to your health and after repeated attempts to ask my boss for less hours..which was 8 hours a day 5 days a week, he would not comply. these postal workers I don't feel are asking for the moon either. They are asking to keep what they have now, keep the pay and better working conditions, such as hiring more staff, so that they aren't stuck doing 3 people's jobs. Is that too much to ask? I have been unable to go back to work because of my experience. How fair is that? I love to work, and I am sure the postal workers do too. But to put them in a position like they are in is just down right unbelievable. Yes there are other jobs out there, but that is still not the point that a person should be forced to leave because of working conditions. I have heard one postal worker comment to me directly that they feel like they have been working in slave labor. Wow, not that I agree they are, but to hear it from someone that works there, in Saskatoon at the shoppers drugmart postal outlet, really gave me a bit of perspective. I feel bad for any canadian that has to feel so overwhelmed by working conditions that they need to strike about it, or quit, or end up on stress leave cuz of trying to be fair. The postal workers in my opinion are being fair.
I just want my supplies shipped. I'll be happy to get them delivered by scabs if that's what it takes.
I'm fine with the posties trying to negotiate a fair deal for themselves, once I get all my crap to the door.
I'm fine with the posties trying to negotiate a fair deal for themselves, once I get all my crap to the door.
K
Kbut655
Guest
I'm expecting 2 parcels from Jack and one from epuffer - I knew I should have chosen express shipping. I seriously hope I get these in time, I've been looking forward to getting that case for my eGo instead of carrying it around in a sunglasses case
Last time I ordered next day delivery throuh Canada post, it took longer than exprespost. Cost me 3 times as much too!
It wasnt long ago in the real world people had 30 year careers at companies that treated them with respect. Sick days are part of that respect. If someone is willing to give the company 30 years of their life, the company can darn well give them 5 sick days if they need them a year. This was a given.
Only recently in our time of McJobs and Wally-Word, disposable jobs which you bounce around every few years have benefits been removed. This should not be the norm. Its not right to take a decent job and try and remove its befits because Wally Word doesnt have them. You have lost touch with reality as badly as Canada Post management if you think this way.
Yes the self employed dont get sick days. There has been many a 3am night working on the website and placing orders while I have been deathly sick. 4 hours in a traffic jam on a 30 degree day in a standard truck with no air while suffering from poison Ivey blisters all over both my legs sticking to my sweat soaked pants to make a delivery that must go out that day (beat that). But the benefit I get from that is I get all the profits that the company makes. Simply put if you are self employed you should be making more money than one working as an employee, or you have a fool for a boss
That extra money more than makes up for 5 days out of 240-some days sick leave.There is no excuse for making someone work sick. Why you would want a miserable unproductive worker who is now going to take longer to recover is beyond logic. Some business school paper pusher without any life skills looked on paper and thought about how cutting sick days would add to the bottom line (probably making graphs and a PowerPoint presentation to further impress their as equally removed from reality boss), without any regard for something as basic as compassion and respect for others. If you want to follow that logic, so be it.
So you place no blame on management for being unable to motivate their workers and create a productive positive environment? In that case I hope they only hire super models for management, if they dont have a purpose they might as well be eye candy.
My boss wants to force me to come to work sick, geee I wonder why I am not very happy and dont really want to be there
Well let me take the other side of the issue here since someone needs to do it
Canada Post isn't taking away sick leave for starters, they are handing over the administration of the program to Manulife. The main issue is the workers' ability to bank sick days year over year, and then get "sick" more often down the road. Now the company already has a short term disability program in place to take care of this. Very few jobs by the way don't allow you to bank sick leave time, however postal workers demand special treatment in every aspect.
Speaking of that, one of the big things they want is for Canada Post to get into the banking business. They claim some other countries have tried this and they are demanding that we do too. The post office already loses enough money and this is a hair brained scheme at best.
As for cuts in wages, Canada Post simply wants to start people out at more reasonable levels, instead of near the top of the wage scale. No one currently employed by them will be effected. There's no other place on earth where someone working for them 30 years only makes a tad more than a new hire.
So those are the three main issues, there's also a few other things that the union wants to meddle with. Now the idea of unions was a very good one back in the days of yore when employers abused the crap out of workers, but with these guys, it's the company and the Canadian people who get abused. They have stolen the pitchforks and have been using them against us for many years.
I cannot imagine a day where the CUPW ever gets my sympathies and I"m really hoping the government shows some guts here and orders them back to work immediately.
Canada Post isn't taking away sick leave for starters, they are handing over the administration of the program to Manulife. The main issue is the workers' ability to bank sick days year over year, and then get "sick" more often down the road. Now the company already has a short term disability program in place to take care of this. Very few jobs by the way don't allow you to bank sick leave time, however postal workers demand special treatment in every aspect.
Speaking of that, one of the big things they want is for Canada Post to get into the banking business. They claim some other countries have tried this and they are demanding that we do too. The post office already loses enough money and this is a hair brained scheme at best.
As for cuts in wages, Canada Post simply wants to start people out at more reasonable levels, instead of near the top of the wage scale. No one currently employed by them will be effected. There's no other place on earth where someone working for them 30 years only makes a tad more than a new hire.
So those are the three main issues, there's also a few other things that the union wants to meddle with. Now the idea of unions was a very good one back in the days of yore when employers abused the crap out of workers, but with these guys, it's the company and the Canadian people who get abused. They have stolen the pitchforks and have been using them against us for many years.
I cannot imagine a day where the CUPW ever gets my sympathies and I"m really hoping the government shows some guts here and orders them back to work immediately.
Well let me take the other side of the issue here since someone needs to do it
Canada Post isn't taking away sick leave for starters, they are handing over the administration of the program to Manulife. The main issue is the workers' ability to bank sick days year over year, and then get "sick" more often down the road. Now the company already has a short term disability program in place to take care of this. Very few jobs by the way don't allow you to bank sick leave time, however postal workers demand special treatment in every aspect.
Speaking of that, one of the big things they want is for Canada Post to get into the banking business. They claim some other countries have tried this and they are demanding that we do too. The post office already loses enough money and this is a hair brained scheme at best.
As for cuts in wages, Canada Post simply wants to start people out at more reasonable levels, instead of near the top of the wage scale. No one currently employed by them will be effected. There's no other place on earth where someone working for them 30 years only makes a tad more than a new hire.
So those are the three main issues, there's also a few other things that the union wants to meddle with. Now the idea of unions was a very good one back in the days of yore when employers abused the crap out of workers, but with these guys, it's the company and the Canadian people who get abused. They have stolen the pitchforks and have been using them against us for many years.
I cannot imagine a day where the CUPW ever gets my sympathies and I"m really hoping the government shows some guts here and orders them back to work immediately.
+1
I need to chime in as well.
If Canada Post gets into the banking business, they are ludicrous. Postal workers already make more than Armoured Car couriers - I work at one, I know. I can safely say that the labour force gets paid very well in the ACC business, so I see NO REASON why postal workers are not happy with their wages.
The union would instantly demand a MASSIVE pay hike for the risk involved at the very next CBA when the opportunity presents itself. We're not talking 2% per year here - think more like 20% in one shot, and that comes from YOUR TAXES, not a private corporation's account. Government wages come from YOUR POCKET, making YOU poorer.
I will say that I do not agree with taking away sick time if that is their plan. Banking sick time causes exactly what KingCobra described... Employees getting "sick" more often - like during a Stanley Cup playoff run. Any unused sick time should be paid out at the end of every year, and that's that. If you want to bank time off, you can always do it by banking your overtime instead of getting paid at 1.5 per hour.
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You are right its not 2% per year. The company offered 2.9%, the union want 3.3%. I guess if you consider 3% a MASSIVE pay increase when that is about the rate of inflation, I certainly wouldn't want to work for you LOL
The wages are covered by the PROFITS of the company, Canada post made money last year. The only way it is coming out of your pocket is if you use their servces.
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What does an armored car driver have to do with a postal worker? I'm assuming here that an armored car driver is paid the same as a mall cop, which is minimum wage. If I'm wrong, I'll apply the same logic you are, if a min wage mall cop is paid minimum wage why should an armored car driver be paid any more? Heck why should a dentist be paid more either?
That some people either choose or are stuck working a crappy low paying job isn't justification for paying the rest of the world sub-par wages. Following that pattern sooner or later its going to end up being the justification for you being paid crap.
Overpaid postal workers? We are talking about $18 to start. You try living off that, or if you are living off that or less you know what I am talking about. That is paycheck to paycheck living with one crappy 2nd hand car, if you are lucky you could afford a small house on the bad side of town, where you can sit back and watch the rest of the world leave you behind.
Again the "raise" the postal workers are asking for is right in line with the increased cost of living. It is not a raise, its maintaining their current wage, anything less, like what the company is offering means that they are taking a PAY CUT every year relative to inflation. And again, Canada Post is making a profit, they can afford to maintain their workers wage, there is no reason to pay someone less when they are making you money.
So what your objective here? It makes you feel better to watch people have a harder time making a living, while Canada Post makes even more money to pay lottery winning like salaries and bonus to execs and hands over millions to the government?
Sick days, they are removing them plain and simple. STD for manulife is smoke and mirrors. You do not need a insurance company to implement a policy as simple as you get paid for 5 sick days. The fact that they are using one is proof that sick days are removed, using STD, a very different benfit as the smoke and mirrors.
No.. Armoured car drivers make a heck of a lot more than minimum wage. Mall cops\Security are not armed, the jobs aren't even close to being similar - you're comparing apples to oranges. Now you're just lashing out because you are losing this argument and you know it.
I said massive pay hike IF they get into the banking business, I didn't say they were asking for one now, you are skewing my words and taking them out of context. As for cost of living increase... Fine, but I still say live within your means, not beyond it. Everyone else makes due and gets by. Why can't a postal worker live comfortably? It's not my fault they don't know how to manage their finances at home, and I shouldn't have to pay for it.
If Canda Post wants in to the banking business, I can guarantee you it was to do with the transportation of MONEY. Large amounts of it. That's what it has to do with the armoured car industry. The two jobs are extremely similar when you look at what they both do, and that's why the union wants to try and break into it.
As for $18 an hour - that's a damn good for STARTING wage - $37,440 per year for a new hire. It's reasonable for a business to say you need to gain experience and put in some time before they pay you full rate. That's like saying a front line manager should get paid the same as a CEO becuase they are both managers. Total rubbish, and I AM a front line manager.
Guess what? I make LESS now than I did when I was unionized in the SAME COMPANY I work for now - not by much, but it's a fact nonetheless, so don't even try to argue that I get paid thousands more. The difference is that I have the opportunity to grow now - not just run to a standstill doing the same thing for 40 years. I don't need the union security blanket anymore.
The majority of respectable entry level jobs start between 30-35k per year, so they are already ahead of the curve. Add to that the fact that when road employees at Canada Post finish their work for the day, they get to GO HOME and get paid GUARANTEED TIME. then the hourly wage goes up, because you are getting paid for a full 8 hours and only working 6 or 7.
Thre are very very few jobs that allow you to do that - On top of that, goverment benefits and indexed pensions are first rate - everyone wishes they had goverment benefits. When you factor all that in, these guys have a STARTING WAGE of 50k.
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The problem is you are bitter that you feel they make more than you, which is no one's fault but your own.
So darn it, if you are going to suffer the rest of the world should too. Unfortunately that is a losers attitude. A winners attitude is, good for them, now I'm going to get the same for myself.
Either way, everyone has a right to negotiate the best deal possible, you, me and Canada Post workers. The union is being reasonable, and flexable, management is being greedy. If that was the case at your job you would be unhappy and looking for a better deal also.
No one is stopping you from putting in a resume at the Post Office if you think the job is that great. It would be downright foolish not to if you think they have a better deal than you.
Classic, utterly classic. Once again you cut and paste a quote from me without AT LEAST putting in the rest of each paragraph... Once again taking everything out of context and not showing a complete argument.
I am not bitter that the labour force makes more money than I do, on the contrary, I'm rather happy not having to march to the beat of that union drum anymore and being able to think for myself. I too had guaranteed time and shift premiums - I left it by CHOICE.
I realize that the labour force of any corporation (crown or private) is the heart and soul of it. They also have to realize it is unskilled labour. You need a Grade 5 reading capacity to do that job, a G license and nothing more. Maybe an Air ticket if you drive a rig on long hauls - which I'm sure Canada Post pays for anyway.
For someone "technically" uneducated to be getting the kind of pay a full timer gets there after their probationary period, and be complaining...
I wonder what kind of job they could land if they were to lose the one they have now. What skills do they posess? Carrying heavy bags?Why people are so against a business making money blows me away... Would YOU run a business if there was no profit involved? I for one am happy a goverment run business can MAKE a profit after paying all the salaries! It means there is revenue coming in other than taxes - and that is good for everyone in this country. It also means management is not as greedy as you would think. If that were the case, there would be no profit at all, they would hike their salaries to the point of that profit vanishing entirely.
Unfortunately, individuals rarely look at big picture, and hardly ever look at anything past their own two feet.
Well, you have your opinion and I have mine. This is like having a farting contest in a sealed room - no one REALLY wins
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But see right there is the perfect example of where the whole problem lies. This is a greed that has us in this situation.
Lets make a big profit..
Sounds great, but now you have the profit what do you do with it? Seems people don't think that far… Lets use the example of Canada Post..
A) give the profit to the government, so they can blow it in some way it can't even be accounted for
B) give upper management a huge bonus, more than a worker makes in their lifetime (they already do that, more might make them look a bit to greedy, but if they could get away with it I'm sure they would)
C) maintain the wage of those responsible for making the profit.
D) give it to you??
You know my choice.
If I am missing some better option of what Canada Post can do with their profit, please tell me.
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