CASAA New York State SALES BAN Call to Action!

[Bill Godshall]

Today's NY Senate calendar at Calendar | New York State Senate doesn't list any Committee meetings scheduled for today, nor for next week (which I believe is the last week of the legislative session). I don't know if the NY Senate Rules Committee Chair can schedule a same day meeting, but legislatures in many/most states must give one day's notice before holding a committee meeting.

The full NY Senate is scheduled to be in session from 11AM to 3PM today, and from 3PM to 5PM next Monday. Most NY Senators will return to their districts this afternoon, most should be in their district office tomorrow, and some (whose districts are near Albany) will be in their district offices Monday morning (before returning to Albany for the 3PM full Senate session). As such, New Yorkers who want to meet with their Senator in their district office should request a meeting for tomorrow and/or Monday morning.

When sending e-mails to Senate Rules Committee members, I also suggest to include the weblink
nysenateuncut - YouTube
of the September 23, 2010 NY Senate Health Committee hearing where Spike Babaian - National Vapers Club, William Friedman - Vapers Forum, Bill Godshall - Smokefree Pennsylvania, and Ron Ward - Consumer Advocates for Smokefree Alternatives Association testified about e-cigarettes.

Sen. Kemp Hannon appeared briefly at the beginning of that hearing, but he left after the first one or two people testified.
So he didn't see/hear any of our testimony on e-cigarettes, as our panel testified near the end of that six hour hearing.

 

[caffeinator]

Here is a news story about CASAA's CTA: New York may ban the sale of electronic cigarettes - Wilmington Civil Rights | Examiner.com

Here's the part I see as fun...or just sad.

tobacco cigarettes, which will still be available to purchase in New York, are known to be difficult to quit, and many who use electronic cigarettes started using them as a way to quit smoking. The estimated 250,000 electronic cigarette users in New York may return to smoking tobacco cigarettes if they are unable to purchase what they desire in their state.

Lessee... FDA "regulated" $10/pack cigs and taxes under their thumb...yuppers....why would they want us to actually quit? Anti-smoking is a HUGE business as well as a big political pushbutton.

The next part is nicely thought out though:

In many cases, when the sale of products or substances are banned in an area, those who desire the product will still find a way to purchase it. Many who are under the age of 21 (the legal drinking age in the state of New York) still manage to find a way to get alcohol. Many who desire it are still able to purchase ........., despite the substance being federally illegal. The ban of the sale of electronic cigarettes may, in fact, simply make the product more difficult to purchase and more expensive. This will also stop the state of New York from taxing the sale of electronic cigarettes.

 

[DC2]

1. DC2: The bill on which CASAA has issued the CTA would prohibit all sales of e-cigarettes in NY to anyone of any age even via mail order. It would also have the effect of closing e-cigarette businesses located in New York.

So other than the potential FDA deeming regulations pending, this is our worst nightmare yet.
Where are all the New York vendors? Do they know they better starting taking some action?

 

[Ruppy]

So other than the potential FDA deeming regulations pending, this is our worst nightmare yet.
Where are all the New York vendors? Do they know they better starting taking some action?

Backwoods Brew is in new york. I know Don is working on getting the word out. He has a rather large following so Im sure he can stir up some more "action".

 

[Bill Godshall]

Since I posted my most recent note above an hour ago, a NY Senate Finance Cmte meeting has appeared on today's NY Senate calendar at Calendar | New York State Senate

So it appears that NY Senate Cmte chairs can schedule same day meetings, indicating that the Rules Cmte chair could (if he chooses) do the same today or any day next week.

 

[Bill Godshall]

A NY Senate Rules Committee meeting has just been scheduled for today at
Committee Meeting: Rules - Jun 14, 2012 - New York State Senate

Thankfully, S7635 is not on the agenda.

 

[mwa102464]

The Repukelicans & Dickocrats that bring these Bills up should all be hung by there goonyads, the people of NY should be handing out millions of fliers in the streets of NY giving bad publicity to this Hanon as well as any other Repukelicans & Dickrocrats that are taking these Payoffs from big tobacco and big pharma trying to ban ecigs. The more people in NY that give bad publicity to these loosers of politicians the better, there all on the take and it's just so dam obvious these days. It's also quite obvious that more and more are making the switch to vaping and there losing there tax money not getting collected from the loss of cig sales, so they try to sneak in these quick ban laws, all these Repukelicans and Dickocrats work for us we the people right ? Ya sure they do, bunch of scumbags is what they all are. A march in NY should be planned and march right to this ...... Hanon's office !!!

 

[DC2]

1. DC2: The bill on which CASAA has issued the CTA would prohibit all sales of e-cigarettes in NY to anyone of any age even via mail order. It would also have the effect of closing e-cigarette businesses located in New York.

Just to make sure I understand, so I am accurate in my communications...

Are you saying this would make it illegal for a New York resident to receive e-cigarettes from an out-of-state vendor?
Because I would think this would only make it illegal for a vendor in New York to sell or mail any e-cigarettes.

Obviously, this would put vendors in New York out of business...
But would it affect New York vapers, other than forcing them to buy from out-of-state vendors?

Again, just trying to clarify so my communications are accurate.

Thanks!
DC2

 

[Ruppy]

Just to make sure I understand, so I am accurate in my communications...

Are you saying this would make it illegal for a New York resident to receive e-cigarettes from an out-of-state vendor?
Because I would think this would only make it illegal for a vendor in New York to sell or mail any e-cigarettes.

Obviously, this would put vendors in New York out of business...
But would it affect New York vapers, other than forcing them to buy from out-of-state vendors?

Again, just trying to clarify so my communications are accurate.

Thanks!
DC2

It falls back on the ability to realistically prevent it. Who is going to police it? The USPS isnt for sure.

 

[kristin]

The way it reads "no person shall sell or offer for sale..." certainly seems to prohibit a company located in New York from selling at all. If they just have a web site to sell e-cigs, it would certainly be an "offer for sale" of electronic cigarettes located in New York and they'd be breaking the law. The person in another state buying from New York wouldn't be doing anything illegal, but a company selling from New York could be. Since it doesn't specifically mention internet sales, so it's a little muddy, but it seems like it could easily be interpreted that way if they wanted. If you are located in New York, you could not sell nor offer to sell e-cigarettes. Period.

Are you saying this would make it illegal for a New York resident to receive e-cigarettes from an out-of-state vendor?
Because I would think this would only make it illegal for a vendor in New York to sell or mail any e-cigarettes.

Obviously, this would put vendors in New York out of business...
But would it affect New York vapers, other than forcing them to buy from out-of-state vendors?

Again, just trying to clarify so my communications are accurate.

Thanks!
DC2

 

[DC2]

Okay, so this is about putting New York State vendors out of business.
And forcing New York State vapers to purchase online from out-of-state vendors.

Thanks!

 

[Vocalek]

I think they plan on enforcing it the same way that they are enforcing the law preventing New Yorkers from ordering tobacco cigarettes online.

Shipping Cigarettes to New York

NY's attorney general sues online tobacco sites - Hornell, NY - Hornell Evening Tribune

 

[kristin]

Interesting thought, Elaine. They didn't try to make it illegal to purchase or possess e-cigarettes for personal use, though? So, unless they specify in a law that it is illegal to ship e-cigarettes to New York (as is the case with direct-to-consumer tobacco sales), I can't see how the law (as written) could stop orders from out-of-state companies. They may try to tax them using the "Amazon Tax" though....

I think they plan on enforcing it the same way that they are enforcing the law preventing New Yorkers from ordering tobacco cigarettes online.

Shipping Cigarettes to New York

NY's attorney general sues online tobacco sites - Hornell, NY - Hornell Evening Tribune

 

[DC2]

I think they plan on enforcing it the same way that they are enforcing the law preventing New Yorkers from ordering tobacco cigarettes online.

So from reading all that is appears this bill would also set the stage to work towards preventing New York residents from receiving anything from online.
In other words, they probably intend to pursue a path that would prevent New Yorkers from getting vaping supplies.

And it looks like that path could even present a strong incentive for out-of-state vendors to not even try it.

But it looks like some of their actions with respect to cigarettes are legally questionable and unresolved at this time.
It seems that until their actions are challenged and ruled to not be legal, things could get ugly.

 

[Dant]

I think they plan on enforcing it the same way that they are enforcing the law preventing New Yorkers from ordering tobacco cigarettes online.

Shipping Cigarettes to New York

NY's attorney general sues online tobacco sites - Hornell, NY - Hornell Evening Tribune

That would be my guess as well. I experienced this first hand several years ago (as an online consumer, not a vendor) and was hit with an unpaid tax bill from the NY Dept. of Taxation and Finance.

 

[Dant]

13. "ELECTRONIC CIGARETTE" MEANS A BATTERY-OPERATED DEVICE THAT
CONTAINS CARTRIDGES FILLED WITH A COMBINATION OF NICOTINE, FLAVOR AND
CHEMICALS THAT ARE TURNED INTO VAPOR WHICH IS INHALED BY THE USER.

The way I read it, if you purchase your batteries separately from your cartridges or if your cartridges are not "filled," you are not buying an "electronic cigarette," according to this Bill's definition.

It seems more designed to prevent the sale of "NJoy" type ecigs.

 

[DC2]

Honestly, I am very conflicted about the increasing prevalence of disposables in retail stores.

Yes, it will get more people to try them.
Yes, it will get more of the public to consider them legitimate.

But it will also tend to sour the first impression that a lot of people who try them start out with.

I think there is a HUGE opportunity for someone with a quality product, quality juices, and quality upgrade options to go retail.
But it would take a lot of money and a very good marketing campaign.

Only Big Tobacco, in my opinion, has that ability.

And this is why I hope for the best from the Lorillard/Blu marriage.
And also why I really hope for more Big Tobacco entrants into this product category.

 

[ABeautifulDisaster]

13. "ELECTRONIC CIGARETTE" MEANS A BATTERY-OPERATED DEVICE THAT
CONTAINS CARTRIDGES FILLED WITH A COMBINATION OF NICOTINE, FLAVOR AND
CHEMICALS THAT ARE TURNED INTO VAPOR WHICH IS INHALED BY THE USER.

The way I read it, if you purchase your batteries separately from your cartridges or if your cartridges are not "filled," you are not buying an "electronic cigarette," according to this Bill's definition.

It seems more designed to prevent the sale of "NJoy" type ecigs.

This is a great point- I drip, so would I still be able to order my batteries, atomizers, drip tips etc From Volcano? And liquid from Cig-not?

Regardless, I have a call in to Senator Hannon to make my views known.

I happened to come across this article in my local news, nothing definitive but it seems to say that a vote this session is unlikely... hoping that is indeed the case!

No NY Law Seen Soon for E-Cigarettes - WETM 18 Online

 

[the_vape_nerd]

I read some of that. Isn't it still ok for the USPS to ship vaping supplies, etc., to anyone because they are a federal agency not subject to the laws of the state of New York?

 

[DC2]

I happened to come across this article in my local news, nothing definitive but it seems to say that a vote this session is unlikely... hoping that is indeed the case!

No NY Law Seen Soon for E-Cigarettes - WETM 18 Online

I sure hope so, because that would give us more time to get to the bottom of what this means.
And would also give us more time to mobilize the community.