This is what i see coming,sadly. Makes me wonder if its a goal to prove how bad it can be it not handled correctly,like cars or hammers or ya.......
Deeming Regulations Are In Effect
- Thread starter Bob Chill
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Does the not helping customers come from the manufacturer's clause? If the FDA considers putting a mod and atty together or changing a coil as manufacturing then the products before they are together are not finished products and therefore not deemed. They can't have it both ways, either it is manufactured or it isn't.
They get you when you change the packaged items. Each thing in a box is a finished product as packaged. When someone, other than the end consumer, takes those things out of the box and puts them together, they have changed them and turned them into something else.
It would be similar to going to the grocery store and buying cans of food to make a casserole. All of those cans are finished products, and you can freely use them to make food for your own meal, or give those cans to the food bank as a donation to strangers. If you open those cans and make the casserole, you can't give/sell the casserole to strangers unless you have followed proper food manufacturing guidelines like a restaurant or commercial food prep kitchen would use.
strangers=non friends and family members, not unusual people
What if I sell you the cans and then I get my cans and show you how I make a casserole? I never touch or do anything to your cans, you just do what I do from your side of the counter? when my casserole is done I just put it away or eat it myself?
This is an excellent point. If only the consumer touches the product and assembles themselves under the direction of an employee then it certainly becomes muddy in regards to the regulations.
It all seems really silly when you think about it. I think the enforcement is more geared towards juice mixing and coil building but it has to be a hard and fast rule so including anything that an employee "assembles" makes sense in a dumb kind of way.
Technically, I think that would be okay, which means any retailers should have store demo units that the clerks can use to show people how to properly assemble their gear.
I would expect that to be similar to a live how-to demo or video. You can go to the big box store and watch salespeople making things on stage, and at the end of the show they tell you to find the ingredients down in aisle 5 to buy and take home. I think the only thing to watch out for is that you don't make any prohibited speech claims.
When I get someone started vaping I don't touch their gear. I make sure they go through all the motions so they remember what they learned and know they can do it. Clerks do if for the customer because they are in a hurry.
Here I am, reading a thread about vaping and then suddenly we're discussing touching peoples cans.
Such a strange place.
Such a strange place.
I would think that if they shipped their nicotine directly to the end consumer...
The FDA would consider that a finished tobacco product...
Yea, I'm with you and Les. I don't see the loophole but I'm no lawyer or reg specialist. I can't imagine the nic suppliers are moving forward without legal advice. I'm not sure I'll need any more nic but will probably end up buying more just cuz I can.
Worst case is they do age verification like other retailers and move on. Nothing was specific in the regs about strength. It's a piece of the industry worth keeping a close eye on for sure.
I posted in one of the threads how Liquid Barn is already in compliance and will still be supplying the DUY'ers. Had complaints from members about their prices. I think you get what you pay for.
Thanks Steve. That's good to know. I hope members use this thread to post vendor specific changes so we know who requires what for age verification and delivery requirements. I'm sure we all want to know specifics going forward. It's going to be tough to navigate who, what, and where the next couple months and beyond.
Here is what I received from the them other day.
Dear Liquid Barn Customers,
On August 8 2016, the FDA's strict new rules & regulations for the vaping industry will go into effect.
You can find a complete list of new legislation here, but here’s what matters to you now:
Winter is coming
August 8 marks the beginning of the “Freeze Period.” All ENDS (Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems) must be submitted to the FDA for clearance before then, or face stiff penalties. No new/unregistered products can be sold after this date.
No need to worry
Whether you use Liquid Barn liquids in your eLiquid or your favorite recipe, rest assured that the product you’re enjoying is of the absolute best quality and will continue to be available to you. Before these new FDA measures were even in place, Liquid Barn was – and will continue – complying with all regulations.
Our Commitment
We’ve taken extra measures to surpass the guidelines by working closely with industry leaders, regulatory firms, and work groups set in place to meet with the FDA/CTP.
Your safety and satisfaction is important to us. As the most trusted name in vaping, we guarantee it’ll stay that way.
For Tastemakers
Liquid Barn is here to give you the creative control of your vaping experience.
Whether you’re a DIY’er, a casual user, or a frequent vapor, we want you to customize your experience and take control.
YOU are the Tastemaker.
What’s next
We'll continue to keep you updated as the FDA implements these changes. More than just compliance – we have some great updates ahead.
In the coming weeks, you’ll also notice a few changes to our products and site. Stay tuned.
Thank you for your loyalty.
Dear Liquid Barn Customers,
On August 8 2016, the FDA's strict new rules & regulations for the vaping industry will go into effect.
You can find a complete list of new legislation here, but here’s what matters to you now:
Winter is coming
August 8 marks the beginning of the “Freeze Period.” All ENDS (Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems) must be submitted to the FDA for clearance before then, or face stiff penalties. No new/unregistered products can be sold after this date.
No need to worry
Whether you use Liquid Barn liquids in your eLiquid or your favorite recipe, rest assured that the product you’re enjoying is of the absolute best quality and will continue to be available to you. Before these new FDA measures were even in place, Liquid Barn was – and will continue – complying with all regulations.
Our Commitment
We’ve taken extra measures to surpass the guidelines by working closely with industry leaders, regulatory firms, and work groups set in place to meet with the FDA/CTP.
Your safety and satisfaction is important to us. As the most trusted name in vaping, we guarantee it’ll stay that way.
For Tastemakers
Liquid Barn is here to give you the creative control of your vaping experience.
Whether you’re a DIY’er, a casual user, or a frequent vapor, we want you to customize your experience and take control.
YOU are the Tastemaker.
What’s next
We'll continue to keep you updated as the FDA implements these changes. More than just compliance – we have some great updates ahead.
In the coming weeks, you’ll also notice a few changes to our products and site. Stay tuned.
Thank you for your loyalty.
Last edited:
I posted some post-deeming info. on the Post 8-8-16 Stocking thread...that the owner of several area vape shops passed along to his employees in a meeting with them all yesterday morning. Here's just a few things he told them that the FDA is planning to do:
As of 1-1-2017 the FDA will give a reward of $10,000 to anyone who turns in someone who is making juice not in an approved facility. (I asked my neighbor, who is an employee there, about home juice makers, and he said the owner said beware if you make and sell any of it to others...even friends).
The FDA is trying to get a system worked out to hire a large number of people who either are underage, or "look to be underage"...to go into vape shops on a "sting" mission, to see if they all get carded before being able to buy anything, and denied if they are indeed underage! Said they wanted to somehow get local Health Depts. involved in it, too.
As far as what goes on in his own shops:
No more custom juice in a variety of ratios, to cut down on # of different products they make. Will only be making 20PG/80VG, unless someone asks for the "COPD blend" (which is 50/50).
His employees are to card everyone...doesn't matter if they're silver haired and are most likely 60+ years old - they get carded before being able to buy anything!
The owner "thinks" he's found a way to get around having testers in his shops, by having people become verified "members" of a vaping club in order to use them. Paying their monthly membership dues would entitle them to both sample tester eliquids and/or buy things in his shops. If you're not a "member", you can't do either.
He didn't detail any changes for his website sales. Neighbor who works there said the owner told them he still had things to "work out" for his online business.
Just thought I'd pass those things along. Don't know if any other shops are planning similar things, but I guess we'll see as time goes by.
As of 1-1-2017 the FDA will give a reward of $10,000 to anyone who turns in someone who is making juice not in an approved facility. (I asked my neighbor, who is an employee there, about home juice makers, and he said the owner said beware if you make and sell any of it to others...even friends).
The FDA is trying to get a system worked out to hire a large number of people who either are underage, or "look to be underage"...to go into vape shops on a "sting" mission, to see if they all get carded before being able to buy anything, and denied if they are indeed underage! Said they wanted to somehow get local Health Depts. involved in it, too.
As far as what goes on in his own shops:
No more custom juice in a variety of ratios, to cut down on # of different products they make. Will only be making 20PG/80VG, unless someone asks for the "COPD blend" (which is 50/50).
His employees are to card everyone...doesn't matter if they're silver haired and are most likely 60+ years old - they get carded before being able to buy anything!
The owner "thinks" he's found a way to get around having testers in his shops, by having people become verified "members" of a vaping club in order to use them. Paying their monthly membership dues would entitle them to both sample tester eliquids and/or buy things in his shops. If you're not a "member", you can't do either.
He didn't detail any changes for his website sales. Neighbor who works there said the owner told them he still had things to "work out" for his online business.
Just thought I'd pass those things along. Don't know if any other shops are planning similar things, but I guess we'll see as time goes by.
Well, then that should also apply to cars, lawnmowers, bbq grills, etc... They get add-ons all the time and the shops adding them on are not considered manufacturers...
I have been trying to think positive about shops not being able to help you open and set up products.
For one I will go duuude if I go to a new B&M that I nver been to and buy something and some guy is like oh I set it up for you and OPENS my brand new in plastic purchase. UGH I want to open it and play with it myself! It's like if you got that Nintendo for Christmas and your cousin was like I'm opening it and setting it up.
Hands off lol
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