I read articles like this and it looks like we live in an authoritarian state, "Of the government, by the government, for the government." It turns the founding principals on it's head and enrages me. Then I turn on the news and see what these current and prospective politicians want to do with our country and I wonder if I live in the same country as I was born in. We know why the founders included the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights. I'm just afraid we have been conditioned over the decades such that the amendment will never serve as intended. At least I can say I lived most of my life in the freest, most prosperous nation ever created. Sadly, that is changing for future generations.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Truth to a government agency is defined as that which furthers the agenda.
I just found the Entire Statement Disturbing at best. This Guy Doesn't seem all that Receptive to e-Cigarette.
There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
Unrelated but related...
...and you should SEE some of the things that are illegal in my state (CT). Put it this way, almost EVERYONE is a criminal.
Except maybe some long married folk.
...and you should SEE some of the things that are illegal in my state (CT). Put it this way, almost EVERYONE is a criminal.
Except maybe some long married folk.
Am I the only one around here who has a philosophical problem with the notion that it's the government's place to act in loco parentis?
No, you're not.
BTW, this is very a well-known practice in all communist countries, where children are pretty much "raised" by the governments from the very early age (preschool) to ensure that they are taught "correctly" and according to the communist dictates. Parents can't be trusted, you see; some of them may have strange ideas, which would contaminate the young ones...
With regards to Underage vaping, I think in Many ways we are Past That.
And have Moved to thinly veiled Parens Patriæ.
Same here. Its all going down hill just as I predicted four years ago.
I guess its nice to always have some hope, though. When I innitially applied for medical disability I was turned down without having a lawyer to support me. I had heard that you always get turned down on your first attempt. I then hired a medical disability attorney, and after 2 and a half years finally got a hearing before a judge. I didn't think it went well at all on my behalf at the hearing, but my attorney said confidently the hearing went exactly as he had planned. He told me most people who apply get frustrated over time and give up, and the "system" expects that. He said that we had stuck it out for the full count and he was optimistic that we would win. Sure enough, 2 - 3 weeks later my attorney wrote me thanking me for my "payment" and my business. He got informed before I did that we had won our case.
IMHO, the entire disability system is rigged between the judges and the lawyers. You don't stand a chance without an attorney representing you.
I feel the odds are against the vaping industry, with Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and the FDA all against us.
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Well folks, the count-down has started:
Court orders FDA to set 10 month deadline for PMTA's
Unless the FDA appeals, there are only 10 months left.
Court orders FDA to set 10 month deadline for PMTA's
Unless the FDA appeals, there are only 10 months left.
Same here. Its all going down hill just as I predicted four years ago.
I guess its nice to always have some hope, though. When I applied for medical disability I was turned down once without having a lawyer to support me. I had heard that you always get turned down on your first attempt. I then hired a medical disability attorney, and after 2 and a half years finally got a hearing before a judge. I didn't think it went well at all on my behalf, but my attorney said confidently the hearing went exactly as he had planned. He told me most people who apply get frustrated and give up, the "system" expects that. He said that we had stuck it out for the full count and he was optimistic that we would win. Sure enough, 2 - 3 weeks later my attorney wrote me thanking me for my "payment" and my business. He got informed before I did that we had won our case.
IMHO, the entire disability system is rigged between the judges and the lawyers. You don't stand a chance without an attorney representing you.
I was fortunate when I finally had to apply for disability. But I also knew the system and was extremely vocal at advocating for myself, assuring every possible bit of medical information was sent AND received, and spoke to the person in charge of assembling and processing my application at least weekly (yes, you can do this but very few know about it). So I was approved on the first round for full disability without a need to even recertify for 5 years. But watching the system I can see how utterly overwhelming it can be for a person, and if that person has no idea how the system is rigged against them they do lose, give up, and walk away. Most cases that do end up in front of an administrative judge are granted, but getting there is a nightmare with what should be unnecessary legal bills and years of time without the help you need.
Yes, there are those who abuse the system. Care does need to be taken to assure those really disabled are helped and those not kept out of the system to keep expenditures within reason. But those folks frequently know they can hire an attorney and keep batting at it to slip through. And those truly disabled are left without the help they deserve and spent much of their life paying for to begin with.
I'm pragmatic about regulation. Free markets do not autocorrect and are not 100% efficient. Rational regulation is needed, just as it has been since the country's founding. But again, it has to be rational, with clear goals and using the least intrusive means of assuring enactment. There are public health issues that require intervention on a local, state, and federal level. It needs to be driven by evidence based findings, not to satisfy emotional outbursts by a vocal minority. I would no more eliminate the FDA than I would the local fire department. But I would expect both to do their job effectively, using the best information on how to handle the challenges they're handed, and act with the knowledge their decisions will affect the survival of people at risk. Neither will be perfect, that's unreasonable, but a demonstrable best effort isn't too much to ask. Gottleib already showed what could be done through sound and considered decisions recognizing harm reduction was an acceptable goal, not only harm elimination. Too bad he got shouted down by activists and lobbyists to the point he decided the hell with this and left. I really can't blame him on that one.
Folks here are quick to bash him, but he was the first FDA commissioner to clearly state nicotine wasn't the enemy, burning tobacco was. He also stated vaping had lots of potential and deserved a chance to prove itself. He rolled back the 2016 timetable. Even under intense pressure, he didn't ban flavors but agreed to change the sales methods to discourage availability to minors. Sometimes we forget when we had things going the right way. No reason it can't get back on track. But not without continued lobbying and education about what vaping is really all about and what it can do.
I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news
But she just smiled and turned away
So I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before
But the man there said the music wouldn't play
And in the streets the children screamed
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed
But not a word was spoken
The church bells all were broken
And the three men I admire most
The Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost
They caught the last train for the coast
The Day, the Music, Died
And I asked her for some happy news
But she just smiled and turned away
So I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before
But the man there said the music wouldn't play
And in the streets the children screamed
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed
But not a word was spoken
The church bells all were broken
And the three men I admire most
The Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost
They caught the last train for the coast
The Day, the Music, Died
Same here. Its all going down hill just as I predicted four years ago.
I guess its nice to always have some hope, though. When I applied for medical disability I was turned down once without having a lawyer to support me. I had heard that you always get turned down on your first attempt. I then hired a medical disability attorney, and after 2 and a half years finally got a hearing before a judge. I didn't think it went well at all on my behalf, but my attorney said confidently the hearing went exactly as he had planned. He told me most people who apply get frustrated and give up, the "system" expects that. He said that we had stuck it out for the full count and he was optimistic that we would win. Sure enough, 2 - 3 weeks later my attorney wrote me thanking me for my "payment" and my business. He got informed before I did that we had won our case.
IMHO, the entire disability system is rigged between the judges and the lawyers. You don't stand a chance without an attorney representing you.
I feel the odds are against the vaping industry, with Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and the FDA all against us.
Oh, dude, I remember when it all began for you....(TOUGH days).
VERY glad to see it's finally done, Bad, and very happy it ended positively.
The ruling said; ".... on the market ....". Is that the US market or the world wide market? Will they have to come up with a way to restrict buying 'stuff' from China, Europe, the UK?
- the FDA shall require that, for new tobacco products on the market as of the August 8, 2016 effective date of the Deeming Rule (“New Products”), applications for marketing orders must be filed within 10 months of the date of this Memorandum Opinion and Order;
The FDA can only control what is sold within the US. If unapproved products from outside the US are shipped into the US, US Customs can seize control of them. This happened before...in 2009 or 2010. For about 6 months. Many vape stores had incoming product seized and never recovered their losses. Many went out of business. This all went down a couple years before I began to vape, but my mentors told me a lot about the horror stories they went through.
So to answer your question, all products regardless of their origin must be approved by the FDA standards to be sold in the US.
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Here is the Memorandum Opinion and Order.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-5f16-b97f-73becd063448/5d292babcd568.pdf.pdf
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-5f16-b97f-73becd063448/5d292babcd568.pdf.pdf
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