Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[mikepetro]

 

[mikepetro]

Deleted, I misunderstood

 

[Bronze]

Maybe this would wake folks up.

"U.S. health care spending grew 3.9 percent in 2017, reaching $3.5 trillion or $10,739 per person. As a share of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 17.9 percent."
Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Now, if folks actually paid for insurance on a population based manner, that would mean your true insurance premium would be $10,000 per person. Not really, as there are costs in there that are paid through secondary and tertiary sources that wouldn't have to reflect in the actual premium.

But let's make believe it would cost half that from you, premium, out of pocket, cosmetic surgery, anything and everything at $5,000. Cut out the purely elective personal preference stuff, OTC purchases (all that stuff does get counted in that GDP figure down to the last Tylenol you took for a headache), allow for out of pocket and deductibles, and your premium should be about $3,000 (these are super rough, but the trend will be apparent).

That's a lot of money for every single person to pay. Now I come along and tell you, "let's let people vape to stop smoking, it'll cut everybody's premium by 10%, or $300". What do you think the reaction of the majority of the population would be?

Now you know why the UK's NHS is pushing vaping. There's no profit at the NHS for more services to be provided, and the public wants to spend the least they can and get the most that'll buy. In the US it's all flipped.

Promoting vaping is one of the few things the UK health system gets right. It is proving to be a big cost savings for them. We're too compromised in this country to do anything that prudent.

 

[mikepetro]

"FDA estimates that 24 respondents will submit PMTA bundles"

They are probably not far off.

 

[Bronze]

Whats even scarier is that it is evident that the FDA has done their homework and they do indeed understand the intricacies of vaping. Their level of vaping knowledge is much greater and in depth than the first proposed rules back in 2016. Their request for details like power, Temp Control, coil construction, wicking, tank capacity, amount of nic capable of being delivered, etc are all spelled out.

I remain curious as to the FDAs definition of a flavored e-liquid. Many "tobacco" e-liquids have "flavors" in them. The flavors are either added to the tobacco during the vendor mixing stage or they are infused (cased) into the tobacco prior to extraction. Many pipe tobaccos are cased and this is where the flavor of many of our NETs come from. When you look, there are not many tobacco flavors that are strictly tobacco only.

 

[bnrkwest]

I think they need to define tobacco flavor then go from there. I used to vape Virginia and Pipe tobacco flavor when I first quit smoking, they are different but I have no idea how they get that flavor.

 

[Bronze]

I think they need to define tobacco flavor then go from there. I used to vape Virginia and Pipe tobacco flavor when I first quit smoking, they are different but I have no idea how they get that flavor.

Virginia is a type of tobacco. Like latakia, perique, burley, turkish, oriental, etc, etc,... If, what, and how they are flavored beyond this is another arena. So yes, "flavored e-liquid" needs to be defined.

 

[Rossum]

I skimmed the the 339 pages and it is abundantly clear that vaping as we know it is being banished.

Only Billion $$+ corporations will be able to provide the resources to meet the requirements for a PMTA, and then it will only be "closed" systems that make it through the eye of the needle.

That's been the expectation since the Deeming was first proposed in the spring of 2014. At that point, most folks here thought VUSE looked like it was designed to meet those requirements (before they were even published as a "proposal"!) and would be one of the only devices to get approved.

The only open, refillable, rebuidable, systems that will survive will be those in someone's stash, or the black market.

Yep. If anyone isn't comfortable that they have what they need for the rest of their lives, time's a wasting.

 

[Rossum]

"FDA estimates that 24 respondents will submit PMTA bundles"

They are probably not far off.

Do you really think it will be that many?

 

[bnrkwest]

Virginia is a type of tobacco. Like latakia, perique, burley, turkish, oriental, etc, etc,... If, what, and how they are flavored beyond this is another arena. So yes, "flavored e-liquid" needs to be defined.

I just looked at heirloom tobacco, I had no idea there were so many types! So in reality tobacco ejuice could be anyone of these types or combinations of them. Heirloom Tobacco Seeds - Rare, Open-Pollinated and Non-Hybrid Seed Varieties from Victory Seeds

 

[Bronze]

I just looked heirloom tobacco, I had no idea there were so many types! So in reality tobacco ejuice could be anyone of these types or combinations of them. Heirloom Tobacco Seeds - Rare, Open-Pollinated and Non-Hybrid Seed Varieties from Victory Seeds

Yeah, there are more tobacco varieties than you could name in a day. There's probably a handful or two that makes up the most mass production of cigarette, cigar, pipe, and chew. Yes, you could probably make an extraction from any of them and vape it alone or in some combination thereof. There is quite a difference in flavor but I'm guessing you could probably make a dozen or so categories that the large majority of these would fit into. Then add a number of ways they are processed post-harvest and it adds a bunch more combinations.

 

[mikepetro]

I vape "Strawberry Peach" tobacco......

 

[mightymen]

Poor Bernie has to come up with a new cost for medicare for all.

 

[Bronze]

I vape "Strawberry Peach" tobacco......

10 years in the slammer for you, Pal !!

 

[bnrkwest]

I like banana leaf tobacco listed, add a hint of banana to that one LOL

 

[Bronze]

Poor Bernie has to come up with a new cost for medicare for all.

Otherwise known as "Medicare for none".

 

[Bronze]

I like banana leaf tobacco listed, add a hint of banana to that one LOL

5 years for you!

 

[bnrkwest]

I like banana leaf tobacco listed, add a hint of banana to that one LOL

Or Frog Eye tobacco, kids will love that one! LOL

 

[mikepetro]

If nic is a tobacco product, then any flavor mixed with nic would be tobacco flavored.

 

[Bronze]

Or Frog Eye tobacco, kids will love that one! LOL

Carnivorous vaping.