Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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Fingers crossed! 
I also just want to add that I think of what is going on now (moving to bans) is all a huge set up. I realize it's part of the "Master Plan" or the plan to make vaping legal, 'safe', and bought by BT and BP.
So sure there will be a legal market that continues. But there will clearly be an illegal one if the way that many vapers vape is not part of the legal market. The market where you add whatever flavored liquid you want to your device and proceed accordingly. Shut that out of open market, and that will manifest a black market. And again, so far in that market, there is around zero serious harm attributed to vaping nic. On the black market, I would fully expect there to be harms that occur to users. I believe it will be attributed to black market (lack of ethics/standards). Attributed that way by all reasonable people. ANTZ will spin it differently. Would you expect otherwise? We vapers will know the skinny on all incidents, and not be shy about what honestly, truthfully happened. That news will be shared around the globe.
Eventually the masses will come around. Currently, it seems like it could be another 50+ years for that to happen. But until then, the black market will thrive.
So sure there will be a legal market that continues. But there will clearly be an illegal one if the way that many vapers vape is not part of the legal market. The market where you add whatever flavored liquid you want to your device and proceed accordingly. Shut that out of open market, and that will manifest a black market. And again, so far in that market, there is around zero serious harm attributed to vaping nic. On the black market, I would fully expect there to be harms that occur to users. I believe it will be attributed to black market (lack of ethics/standards). Attributed that way by all reasonable people. ANTZ will spin it differently. Would you expect otherwise? We vapers will know the skinny on all incidents, and not be shy about what honestly, truthfully happened. That news will be shared around the globe.
Eventually the masses will come around. Currently, it seems like it could be another 50+ years for that to happen. But until then, the black market will thrive.
So they'll wait until after 2020, then turn it all over to big-corp. This, BTW, happens regardless of who wins.
"Engage like never before" is what's scary. All he's done is favor big-corp.
I think he will eventually listen to the vaping advocates and I also believe he will understand their argument. I'm just not certain Melania will and it boils down to how much influence she has on him.
I think it is Giving Many People pause.
How Much it will effect Trump? Hard to say?
How much will it effect the HHS/FDA? I think they are Kinda Surprised by some of the Criticism that is coming there way.
And it Wouldn't surprise me if they are Re-Thinking a Heavy Handed approach like what we are seeing in Michigan and or New York State.
I do too.
And it's Not just a Friday Afternoon, the Glass is 1/8 Full, positive Thinking.
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I always trusted Trump's second inclinations far more than his first inclinations. A pause is in our best interests.
Cross-breeding takes too long. We need to get some of the best GMO guys from Monsanto on this post-haste!
Realistically... What do you think is a Worst Case scenario with Trump/HHS/FDA?
Full Flavor Ban issued 30 ~ 60 Days from Now?
Then a 30 ~ 90 Day period for OEM's/Retailers to empty their inventory?
And we're what, 233 Days or so from the FDA Drop Dead Date.
Flavor bans to "protect the children" is such BULL
It's illegal for under 18 (or 21 depending on where you are) to purchase e-cigarettes.
(Same as alcohol)
We have the laws in place already.
Kids are going to get what ever they want just as we did - be it cigarettes, alcohol or whatever.
Parents need to be TALKING with their children instead of having the government punish ADULTS for their own children's behavior (kids being kids)
Find your kid with an e-cig ?
TALK with them or GROUND them...YOU deal with YOUR kid.
It's NOT a government problem.
What the hell is the matter with people these days ?
...not even sure if I got my thoughts out right...
It's illegal for under 18 (or 21 depending on where you are) to purchase e-cigarettes.
(Same as alcohol)
We have the laws in place already.
Kids are going to get what ever they want just as we did - be it cigarettes, alcohol or whatever.
Parents need to be TALKING with their children instead of having the government punish ADULTS for their own children's behavior (kids being kids)
Find your kid with an e-cig ?
TALK with them or GROUND them...YOU deal with YOUR kid.
It's NOT a government problem.
What the hell is the matter with people these days ?
...not even sure if I got my thoughts out right...
It's just an excuse, classy.
And arguably, a market problem. But, regardless of market-problem, it's fodder for a BT takeover.
I'd rather they eliminated cigs and kept the flavors. But that doesn't play into BT's hand very well, so they won't, not unless they turn it over to BT. Which is what they're doing. Or maybe attempting.
And arguably, a market problem. But, regardless of market-problem, it's fodder for a BT takeover.
I'd rather they eliminated cigs and kept the flavors. But that doesn't play into BT's hand very well, so they won't, not unless they turn it over to BT. Which is what they're doing. Or maybe attempting.
1/8 full of THC oil concentrate.
Let's not lose sight of the bigger picture @mikepetro shared a glimpse of. The new "more inclusive" guidelines meant to protect "innovation and encourage vaping as a viable alternative" are worse than the first round. The first round was loose and ambiguous. This round is crystal clear in identifying what they will require to end up approving an application and no one outside of Juul/BT will meet those requirements. Open systems are over. Flavors don't even matter because that will be at the discretion of whoever bought their approved PMTA, and if you don't like the flavor profile they got through, take a walk.
Not only are B&M stores gone, but online vendors dependent on commercial juice sales are gone as commercial juice manufacturers won't even exist. And you can't make it up in hardware, because all you have is the same damn Juul to offer everyone else does. If you want new hardware, you'll be buying from China or Europe to get anything to use your DIY juice in beyond the gear you've already stashed.
The industry is over. These state flavor bans are the appetizer. The newly released "final, final" FDA guidelines have already shown the main course will clear the table. Forget any dessert, and there sure won't be a kiss when they're done with us in the morning.
It's now at a point legislation would be the only way out, and seeing that get through a divided Congress in a presidential election year is as likely as Trump admitting he can't find his ball in the tall rough and taking a penalty stroke. He'll just roll one down his pants leg on the fairway and go "here it is, I found it".
Right now, I'll keep writing letters, calling and tweeting. But I'm finishing up my hardware buying and expect no other outcome.
Oh, and as to BT moving to a "smoke free world" using their heat not burn and vape products, not gonna happen. Cigarettes will still be around for another generation to be hooked on because the BT alternatives won't be quite "as satisfying" and overpriced, so might as well just buy the cigarettes (people already are returning to smoking thinking it safer than vaping). Maybe the generation after will get a shot at it when history repeats itself.
Just another example of society and government rejecting science out of fear of the new, disruptions of profits, or truths they'd just rather not face, and kick the problem down the road for someone else to deal with.
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