Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[AttyPops]

but I wonder if there is a way to turn vaping into a religion.

You...mean...it...isn't...one...now?

 

[Blitzdonlife]

You...mean...it...isn't...one...now?

Worshipping the P.E.N.I.S. isn't publicly acceptable.
(Old joke for ahem, newcomers. lol)

 

[fiddleshe]

You have the B'hai faith where every religion is studied and given equal merit. That way you wouldn't exclude anyone. But then one of the tenets of the faith could be no serious study of dogma required or even encouraged. Just throwing this out there.

 

[mikepetro]

I dont think Religious exemption will help.

Nothing right now prohibits "use" of any kind, or the making of your own liquids or hardware. The regs just regulate "sales" to the public.

I am not aware of any religious group allowed to "sell" items that do not conform to Federal regulations.

"Use" them - yes, "sell" them - no. The only possible backdoor might be escaping tax consequences.

 

[dreamvaper]

and there sure won't be a kiss when they're done with us in the morning

FDA is not even calling back after

a website where adults could take WHATEVER intractable problem they had and the teen would come up with a creative solution for them

Oh, I know one, it starts with P O and end with U B

 

[sofarsogood]

I have read the 339 pages, plus some of the additional docs being contemplated.

Am I wrong about any of the points below.

Essentially a PMTA is asking permission to bring a product to market
Nothing in the Deeming:

• Prohibits possession in any way
• Prohibits making hardware or juice for yourself.
• Prohibits vaping any style, flavor, or strength you like

This is all about what will be allowed to be sold to the public, and the hoops a company has to jump through to get that permission.

Nothing gives them authority for search and seizure of personal property.
Nothing gives them the authority to fine or tax property you already own.

Those who choose to stock their larders will have no legal issues whatsoever.

Those who dont will have to accept whatever the FDA approves, or go underground if they choose to continue to vape.

I haven't researched as deeply as you but my conviction is you are right. Government is not intending to criminalize activities of endusers, but. Will nicotine concentrate remain available after next May? Will customs try to intercept consumer shipments of vape hardware from off shore? If the answers are no and no existing vapers who haven't stockpiled will be able to get supplies but DIY will probably keep existing smokers smoking.

A moral panic is when the agitators are lying and EVERYBODY knows they are lying but the narrative keeps going. In America we have a remedy for that, political action, especially voting. There are now enough vapers to decide many 2020 races. We should be asking everybody running for elected office their position on vaping, even if it's not part of the office they seek, then making sure vapers know what those positions are so they can vote accordingly.

 

[Eskie]

A moral panic is when the agitators are lying and EVERYBODY knows they are lying but the narrative keeps going. In America we have a remedy for that, political action, especially voting. There are now enough vapers to decide many 2020 races. We should be asking everybody running for elected office their position on vaping, even if it's not part of the office they seek, then making sure vapers know what those positions are so they can vote accordingly.

Which only helps if the candidates differ on the policy. That remains to be seen. A candidate has to weigh the votes of vapers vs. soccer moms in a given swing state and district.

 

[DarrenMG]

Which only helps if the candidates differ on the policy. That remains to be seen. A candidate has to weigh the votes of vapers vs. soccer moms in a given swing state and district.

Yes, there no no altruistic politicians, its about votes. Every time someone idolizes over altruism I want to gag. It's about votes.

 

[englishmick]

Fresh from the presses. Whatever you think of the drug pricing issue, THIS is how you make your case to Congress.

Anyone have $250M laying around?

“We’re facing the stiffest political headwinds in the history of the industry,” James Greenwood, president of the trade group Biotechnology Innovation Organization, said in an interview. BIO’s member companies include Amgen Inc., Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer Inc.

In response to the drug-pricing efforts, Mr. Greenwood, a former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, said he and his staff have visited dozens of members of Congress, White House adviser Joe Grogran, who formerly lobbied for drugmaker Gilead Sciences Inc., and deputies to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, a former Eli Lilly & Co. official.

 

[Eskie]

Fresh from the presses. Whatever you think of the drug pricing issue, THIS is how you make your case to Congress.

Anyone have $250M laying around?

“We’re facing the stiffest political headwinds in the history of the industry,” James Greenwood, president of the trade group Biotechnology Innovation Organization, said in an interview. BIO’s member companies include Amgen Inc., Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer Inc.

In response to the drug-pricing efforts, Mr. Greenwood, a former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, said he and his staff have visited dozens of members of Congress, White House adviser Joe Grogran, who formerly lobbied for drugmaker Gilead Sciences Inc., and deputies to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, a former Eli Lilly & Co. official.

Juul does. I doubt they spent all of that $16 Billion yet.

 

[Baditude]

Will nicotine concentrate remain available after next May?
Will customs try to intercept consumer shipments of vape hardware from off shore?
If the answers are no and no existing vapers who haven't stockpiled will be able to get supplies but DIY will probably keep existing smokers smoking.

It remains to be seen if nic concentrate will be available in May. Testimonies to policy makers have said that a flavor ban will "create a black market for flavored vape", which if you think about it is what DIY is, but usually for personal use only. So policy makers may ban public sale of concentrated nic if they have any inkling of what DIY is.

The FDA banned vape products in the US in 2009, which was enforced by US Customs. Products shipped from overseas got seized in airports and shipping ports. Vape suppliers were forced to file for bankruptcy because they had no product to sell. After several months, a judge ruled in favor for NJoy for the FDA ban to be stopped. By that time, most suppliers in the US had closed. It took a couple of years for the industry to recover.

There is the strong possibility that ciga-likes will be available in May, and perhaps closed system pods such as Juul and other Big Tobacco pods. Open system vape devices may or may not be approved after passing FDA PMTA applications. So far none have been approved by the FDA.

The state issues may get even more critical, as many are calling for an entire ban on vaping.

That's the scenario I foresee.

 

[zoiDman]

It remains to be seen if nic concentrate will be available in May. ...

If you Don't have a PMTA on file with the FDA at the time of the FDA's Drop Dead Date, why would you Legally be able to sell Nicotine Base to an Individual?

 

[Jman8]

Nothing gives them authority for search and seizure of personal property.
Nothing gives them the authority to fine or tax property you already own.

Those who choose to stock their larders will have no legal issues whatsoever.

Then black market operators will have virtually no legal issues whatsoever. They'll have tons of items in stock. They may get caught for selling, then again, I bet most don't.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

If you Don't have a PMTA on file with the FDA at the time of the FDA's Drop Dead Date, why would you Legally be able to sell Nicotine Base?

That's actually what I was about to ask. @mikepetro , being one of the few who have actually read it:
What's your take on what requires a PMTA and what doesn't, particularly as it relates to diy? I'm assuming it can't really cover products like PG and VG, and most flavorings that have other uses. But it seems that they might pull nic base into this, unless there's pretty wide use of it for other legitimate purposes? Are there other real uses for the type nic base we buy? Or will nic require legislation, or some sort of clarification statement to include it?

 

[Baditude]

If you Don't have a PMTA on file with the FDA at the time of the FDA's Drop Dead Date, why would you Legally be able to sell Nicotine Base?

Good point. That's why many of us have been stockpiling it in our freezers for years.

 

[zoiDman]

... But it seems that they might pull nic base into this, unless there's pretty wide use of it for other legitimate purposes? ...

Might?

Is Nicotine Base a Product that contains Nicotine that was Derived from Tobacco that can be Reasonably Assumed to be used for Human Consumption with an e-Cigarette?

I'm Not a Lawyer. But there just Doesn't seem to be much Wiggle Room there.

LOL

I know all the Focus lately has been on what the FDA is going to do with Flavored e-Liquids. But have people Really been Thinking that the FDA was just going to Look-the-Other-Way when it came to Nicotine Base?

 

[puffon]

I believe when the PMTA was first released raw nic was excluded because it wasn't a finished product, and didn't need PMTA approval.
Of course they seem to be changing requirements as they go along.

 

[zoiDman]

Good point. That's why many of us have been stockpiling it in our freezers for years.

Just for the Record:

I have Never, nor shall I ever, Purchase or Acquire or otherwise Posses more than a 5 Day Supply of any Nicotine Product for sole purpose of Individual Adult Recreational Use.

 

[zoiDman]

I believe when the PMTA was first released raw nic was excluded because it wasn't a finished product, and didn't need PMTA approval.
Of course they seem to be changing requirements as they go along.

But the ONLY people who that is supposed to Apply to are Tobacco Manufactures.

 

[puffon]

But the ONLY people who that is supposed to Apply to are Tobacco Manufactures.

I guess we will have submit paperwork that we are tobacco manufactures....
Just never sell anything...