Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[stols001]

I like having parents and grands around in the USA. But that's me.

I CANNNOT let this SLIIDE. I am NOT targeting the elderly and vulnerable. I am SAYING it would actually have been safer to care for them at HOME and frankly those doing it ALREADY are paying the price in having to get groceries delivered, medications and what not some if which is costing the a FAIR amount of money. Maybe we should ask our elders smart and able enough to DO this already if they would have liked some HELP.

Half measures avail us nothing, What we are doing NOW is making it MORE likely to kill off vulnerable populations and ruining our economy. For the love of all that is holy, I don't get you. I am not trying to kill ANYONE.

Again, I ask with the healthcare and many other systems in tatters, how many elderly will die from lack of access to care?

My argument is not a fatalistic one, other than to point out based on available models, what we are doing NOW will be negligible as far as fatalities. Unless the other countries are all lying TOO we went into quarantine way too late, and really poorly executed.

I truly think you do not understand how community spread works. But putting on a cloth mask and gardening gloves, which I a have also seen, is not the way to go about helping those most at risk.

Anna

 

[AttyPops]

Not trying to fight here. And maybe you didn't mean it that way, but this sounds pretty dismissive of a lot of people's despair. So it makes me curious: What do you do for a living, and how has it affected your work?

Nope, not dismissive at all.

The country will survive, I can't say all will make it financially. And no, that's not dismissive either, and I'm not rich. My point is that sometimes the country has to do what it has to do.

I did say that I was disappointed in how D.C. handled it. I mentioned that the UK paid 80% of salaries.

So IDK how that's "dismissive". I think it's mishandled, but that doesn't mean we don't shut down.

Here, Mnuchin claims that people can get by for 10 weeks on $1,200.

 

[AttyPops]

My argument

I'm not even sure what you were arguing...

The post was to someone else....

 

[CMD-Ky]

My point is that sometimes the country has to do what it has to do.

And you think this near total shutdown is what "had" to be done? I think our repertoire of possible responses was and remains wider than shutting near every thing down.

Quarantining the healthy?

 

[AttyPops]

Like I said, YMMV.

There's so many unknowns with this thing. But many many other countries did the shutdown thing too. It's not exactly like we're alone in this. AND, I guess you can argue with your governator, since it's a state-by-state thing here.

But regardless, I personally think it was a wise choice until we could at least ramp up testing kits and masks and respirators and such.

And the fact that it wasn't worse is evidence that it seems to have worked. There's a lot of positives showing up now, and I think that's mostly due to relaxed testing constraints, the hospital admission rates are lowering. The big danger here is opening up too early. Last poll I saw said about 2/3rds agreed that opening up too early is a problem.

And the 50-feifdoms thing is a bit of an issue too, since many states will lag and could spread to other over-the-hump states.

But we've all had our "practice time" and "sewing time" and whatever-the-hell-else prep time, so the early-closers are relaxing the constraints now. We have to open up some time or another.

 

[Bronze]

I'd rather risk getting coronavirus than have the economy collapse. The latter leaves far more carnage.

 

[AttyPops]

I'd rather risk getting coronavirus than have the economy collapse. The latter leaves far more carnage.

The economy shouldn't collapse either way.

Why would you think so?

Hell, Uncle Sam could print one month's worth of "stimulus" for everyone and not even blink. Trump's right, the economy will boom after this shutdown, for most things. Production is impacted, as it is often constrained by time/material restrictions.

But this will be the greatest push of cash into working class hands in nearly 100 years. When you do a stimulus like this it IMPROVES the economy.

The main thing to worry about is inflation. It's about "what you get for the money".

Of course, you can't just shut it down forever. You have to produce and maintain and service things. Restaurants need revenue, companies have to pay rent, utilities and loans just like people. Etc.

But we'll manage it.

Why not get ...... about HOW it was done, rather than the "if" part?

 

[CMD-Ky]

We certainly differ. I am unable to agree with any of this post.

The economy shouldn't collapse either way.

Why would you think so?

Hell, Uncle Sam could print one month's worth of "stimulus" for everyone and not even blink. Trump's right, the economy will boom after this shutdown, for most things. Production is impacted, as it is often constrained by time/material restrictions.

But this will be the greatest push of cash into working class hands in nearly 100 years. When you do a stimulus like this it IMPROVES the economy.

The main thing to worry about is inflation. It's about "what you get for the money".

Of course, you can't just shut it down forever. You have to produce and maintain and service things. Restaurants need revenue, companies have to pay rent, utilities and loans just like people. Etc.

But we'll manage it.

Why not get ...... about HOW it was done, rather than the "if" part?

 

[CMD-Ky]

@FringeChief68

This would be a fine place to post your Covide-19 video. We are in bad need of both science and common sense, your video is loaded with both.

 

[Letitia]

Odd idea, we could pay special attention to the elderly and others with chronic disease and let the rest country function. Nope, we shut the place down and still we are losing the elderly who have underlying problems. Another grand success of governmental intervention.

This is so true. I see it everyday when I come to work.

 

[Bronze]

The economy shouldn't collapse either way.

Why would you think so?

Hell, Uncle Sam could print one month's worth of "stimulus" for everyone and not even blink. Trump's right, the economy will boom after this shutdown, for most things. Production is impacted, as it is often constrained by time/material restrictions.

But this will be the greatest push of cash into working class hands in nearly 100 years. When you do a stimulus like this it IMPROVES the economy.

The main thing to worry about is inflation. It's about "what you get for the money".

Of course, you can't just shut it down forever. You have to produce and maintain and service things. Restaurants need revenue, companies have to pay rent, utilities and loans just like people. Etc.

But we'll manage it.

Why not get ...... about HOW it was done, rather than the "if" part?

If we hunker down to current levels until a vaccine is available our country will be finished. Break out your 22 cuz you'll be eating small game for dinner.

 

[englishmick]

Odd idea, we could pay special attention to the elderly and others with chronic disease and let the rest country function. Nope, we shut the place down and still we are losing the elderly who have underlying problems. Another grand success of governmental intervention.

The big advantage of a lockdown was it could be done overnight. And it was so simple even the government could do it. It's the option the entire world chose for better or worse.
​

I'm old with dodgy lungs and my wife is diabetic. I live on an acre of land in an isolated neighborhood. I can walk the dogs for half an hour and rarely see anyone. I have a car and plenty of money so I can hit the supermarket once a week in relative safety.

A lot of older people with dodgy lungs or diabetes aren't so lucky, They live with family, or in crowded apartment blocks, or nursing homes, etc, don't have cars or money. Or they work in supermarkets. Don't have family nearby. Don't have regular access to health care. Maybe something could have been done to help them all, but it would be a massive complex job even to identify who they are and decide what their needs were and how to meet those needs, and building the infrastructure and workforce to do it would be more likely to take years than days.

If they had started in January the federal government might be close to completing a project scope document by now. And congress would be arguing about how much of the money should go to corporations and whether to include the undocumented or rich people. Do you really think the feds could have pulled off something like this?

It has been said that the lockdown didn't actually help anyone anyway. I'll leave that one alone.

 

[AttyPops]

If we hunker down to current levels until a vaccine is available our country will be finished. Break out your 22 cuz you'll be eating small game for dinner.

Nobody is proposing doing that though.

I suppose I could equally argue that "GiantMeteor2020" will make it all irrelevant.

But neither of us would be dealing in reality then.

Vaccine, if developed, is approx a year away at best. This shutdown bought us time. We needed the prep time, and like I said, we needed to "flatten the curve". This virus is SNEAKY. It's in the sweet spot between deadly SARS and the influenza, but it HIDES for a ~week before you know you have it. It spreads when you think you're "healthy".

Here:
As States Push to Reopen, Business Leaders Say Not So Fast

Not shutting down, or reopening too soon is even more disastrous. But we have to open sometime. What we have to do is "do it right".

 

[CMD-Ky]

If we hunker down to current levels until a vaccine is available our country will be finished. Break out your 22 cuz you'll be eating small game for dinner.

I have been awaiting the AIDS vaccine for near forty years. I am sure it is just around the corner.

 

[AttyPops]

If they had started in January the federal government might be close to completing a project scope document by now.

That said, had the POTUS "Emergency appropriated" several companies and mass produced 5 N95 or N100 masks for the entire population with spares to follow, we'd all be back to work already. That's a lot of frigg'n masks, and may have to roll out strategically, but yeah. With PSA instruction videos and other things like respirators.

As it is we're folding t-shirts, that help protect others, but won't protect us. Groan.

 

[zoiDman]

...

But this will be the greatest push of cash into working class hands in nearly 100 years. When you do a stimulus like this it IMPROVES the economy.

...

In this case, that really Isn't true.

If I took my 1,200 Smackarues and went out and Bought something like a New US made TV or a Us made Home Appliance, than Yeah, that would be a direct Tick for the Economy.

But If all I due is Pay Rent or Service Debt with it, than No, at best it could be argued that it helped in "Maintaining" or slowing the Fall of the Economy.

Then there is the Trivial Matter of where does the Feds come up with 4+ Trillion (with a "T") Dollars when we are 24.7 Trillion in Debt already?

BTW - 4+ Trillion was about the Total Annual Federal Budget for 2019. Which BTW2 was a Year of Deficit Spending.

 

[Bronze]

BTW - 4+ Trillion was about the Total Annual Federal Budget for 2019. Which BTW2 was a Year of Deficit Spending.

That's OK. We'll just let future generations pay for our standard of living. Who cares about them anyway, right?

 

[AttyPops]

In this case, that really Isn't true.

If I took my 1,200 Smackaroes and went out and Bought something like a New US made TV or a Us made Home Appliance, than Yeah, that would be a direct Tick for the Economy.

But If all I due is Pay Rent or Service Debt with it, than No, at best it could be argued that it helped in "Maintaining" or slowing the Fall of the Economy.

Then there is the Trivial Matter of where does the Feds come up with 4+ Trillion (with a "T") Dollars when we are 24.7 Trillion in Debt already?

BTW - 4+ Trillion was about the Total Annual Federal Budget for 2019. Which BTW2 was a Year of Deficit Spending.

I agree it's mishandled. They should have paid 80% of existing salaries AND done a stimulus on top of it. To fend off the recession.

But don't forget that ?most? states at least also relaxed unemployment rules and bumped up weekly amounts. Mine bumped it up by an extra 600 per week, and my GF knows a hairdresser that wouldn't have qualified for unenjoyment with the old restrictions, but got approved with the new ones. AND she'll get a stimulus.

It all depends. That it's so variable and so...hard won from the fed... indicates a lack of leadership in D.C.

Next the state-bills hit the fed, and the fight begins. Corporate bailouts have been a problem too, since trickle-down is B.S.

All IMHO and

 

[AttyPops]

That's OK. We'll just let future generations pay for our standard of living. Who cares about them anyway, right?

That's not economics. But this thread is getting off topic enough already.

Just note that the alternative would have been worse had we not shut down. It would have been a disaster.

 

[AttyPops]

hen there is the Trivial Matter of where does the Feds come up with 4+ Trillion (with a "T") Dollars when we are 24.7 Trillion in Debt already?

BTW - 4+ Trillion was about the Total Annual Federal Budget for 2019. Which BTW2 was a Year of Deficit Spending.

It's the fiat issuer of the currency. This isn't your house-budget. It's the government's budget. Their deficit isn't like your deficit.

And we have a 21T GDP, that took a pause.