Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zelda]

It's just Hard to Say.

Because without a Publicized List, that seems like the FDA\CTP could be Opening Up a Pandora's Box for the Lawyers to jump out of. And the ensuing Maelstrom in the Media would make the CTP look like Rubes.

Zeller wants to Keep His Job if things change at the White House. So I think he will want to Avoid any Unnecessary Black Eyes if possible.

JMO...

But I think the CTP is going to Lay Low until the get a PMTA/Non-Market Order List together. Then they'll give things a week or so to make it looks like they have given Retailers ample warning. Then they'll start cranking up the Printers and start sending the Warning Letters.

But Hey, for a Agency that Fly's in the Face of Common sense on Most Things. who knows?

I think they have little interest in enforcement right now. Only if they get complaints that are hard to ignore.

I don't think the approved hardware list will be very big either - I can't imagine most submitted were around before 08/08/2016.

I do have a feeling most if not all flavored eliquids are doomed - probably because they won't pass the better for public health requirement.

And of course I could be completely wrong. I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again.

 

[HigherStateD]

One thing I have learned is there is no predicting what the FDA will do at any given moment.

Recall Seldane, the only medication that helps my cat allergy I even tried shots for years and they did not work. I was bitter. Seldane was going to enable me to become a vet although I am NOT a vet and I must say, GLAD not to be vets have more debt than medical school etc.

But some folks dropped dead due to Q-T rhythms. They could have recommended an EKG or these days a genetic test (you have the susceptibility or you don't. But like nooooo..... Even though NOTHING else works.

Then you have Clozapine-- probably one of the drugs most likely to kill you (seriously) you have to get weekly blood tests for a long time and a host of other things and expect to like gain 678 lbs also not to mention "other stuff" but it is still on the market "For schizophrenia that has responded to no other things."

Only-- Off label prescribing. No doc gets in trouble for that unless it's a controlled substance.

They just..., It's going to be like 52 card pickup. WHO KNOWS NO ONE DOES NOT EVEN THE FDA YET THEY WERE JUST LIKE EVEN WITH COVID WE CAN'T PUSH THIS OUT AGAIN OH HOW I WANT TO I HATE ECIGS AS MUCH OR MORE THAN ANY OTHER POLITICIAN.

Lay low. Seriously, take it easy for a while.

Or, go nuts until this is some how "determined."

No one in the FDA knows ANYTHING about ecigs except the dude that quit, and they don't understand clinical studies anymore either.

Anna

As if all the new medications they push out don't have a phone books worth of potential side effects...

May cause male breast growth, may cause death, may cause an existential break with reality that leaves you feeling at peace with the universe, may weaken immune system...

 

[CMD-Ky]

I think the final clinical trial of any drug is the drug's release to the public, complete with a massive advertising campaign. If enough people die or have serious complications then the drug is pulled.

 

[mikepetro]

National Survey Shows Encouraging Decline in Overall Youth E-Cigarette Use, Concerning Uptick in Use of Disposable Products

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

^^^

In line with its enforcement priorities, today the FDA issued warning letters notifying three companies who sell or distribute unauthorized ENDS products to remove those products from the market. The FDA issued a warning letter to XL Vape LLC (doing business as Stig Inc.), a popular disposable e-cigarette brand among youth, warning the company to remove their disposable e-cigarettes from the market because they do not have the required premarket authorization.

Additional warning letters were issued today to Flavour Warehouse LTD (doing business as Vampire Vape) and Pretty Women UK LTD (T/A Coil2oil and Mad Kingdom Liquids) for illegally marketing unauthorized menthol-flavored e-liquids. The labeling and/or advertising of these products also features cartoon images, such as vampires and kings, that are commonly marketed and/or appeal to youth.

 

[440BB]

It looks like they had some targets in mind, just waited for the absent PMTA application to start moving on them.

 

[gerrymi]

Zeller wants to Keep His Job if things change at the White House.

IF things change at the White House...I fear we'll have...much...MUCH...MUCH more to worry about...than getting our Banana-Split e-juice!!??!!

I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again.

I know I was wrong...once before...when I thought I had been wrong about something...

.

 

[zelda]

Well....two wrongs make a right. Right?

Or am I wrong?

 

[Bronze]

Well....two wrongs make a right. Right?

Or am I wrong?

Make a left and see.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Riiiiiiiight!

 

[mikepetro]

^^^

In line with its enforcement priorities, today the FDA issued warning letters notifying three companies who sell or distribute unauthorized ENDS products to remove those products from the market. The FDA issued a warning letter to XL Vape LLC (doing business as Stig Inc.), a popular disposable e-cigarette brand among youth, warning the company to remove their disposable e-cigarettes from the market because they do not have the required premarket authorization.

Additional warning letters were issued today to Flavour Warehouse LTD (doing business as Vampire Vape) and Pretty Women UK LTD (T/A Coil2oil and Mad Kingdom Liquids) for illegally marketing unauthorized menthol-flavored e-liquids. The labeling and/or advertising of these products also features cartoon images, such as vampires and kings, that are commonly marketed and/or appeal to youth.

Funny thing is that the feds also sent those letters to their Internet Host (Go Daddy). How many internet hosts will cave under FDA pressure and boot the company. I am sure that is their intent anyway.

 

[zoiDman]

Funny thing is that the feds also sent those letters to their Internet Host (Go Daddy). How many internet hosts will cave under FDA pressure and boot the company. ...

If the Company Doesn't Pull the products, or Win an FDA Appeal, just about Any Internet Host is going to Drop you.

If the Products go away, then I would say Everything would be OK Host-wise.

 

[ChelsB]

Forgive me if this has already been covered but this is a huge thread and I don’t feel like sifting through it. I’m wondering what happened with the nic tax? I’m looking at Heartland and their nic is still the same price. Wasn’t nic supposed to go up substantially in cost after September 9? (Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the prices are still the same, I’m just wondering if there was a minor victory for us?)

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Forgive me if this has already been covered but this is a huge thread and I don’t feel like sifting through it. I’m wondering what happened with the nic tax? I’m looking at Heartland and their nic is still the same price. Wasn’t nic supposed to go up substantially in cost after September 9? (Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the prices are still the same, I’m just wondering if there was a minor victory for us?)

It passed the house and if the senate doesn't vote on it by the new year, it's toast.

Trump admin said it would be vetoed if senate passes it, but talk is cheap, of course.

 

[ChelsB]

It passed the house and if the senate doesn't vote on it by the new year, it's toast.

Trump admin said it would be vetoed if senate passes it, but talk is cheap, of course.

Thanks for the quick reply! So at least we have until at least the end of the year to stock up. I have plenty of nic but I don’t trust all of it. I’ve had ssoo much bad luck with nic. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of my stash is bad.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Funny thing is that the feds also sent those letters to their Internet Host (Go Daddy). How many internet hosts will cave under FDA pressure and boot the company. I am sure that is their intent anyway.

If the Company Doesn't Pull the products, or Win an FDA Appeal, just about Any Internet Host is going to Drop you.

If the Products go away, then I would say Everything would be OK Host-wise.

GoDaddy will cave, of course, in all cases. So will 99.992% US based service providers. So will content delivery networks.

This happens a lot with "hate speech" website sites. In their case, it's somewhat easy to find a free speech host who won't cave in, usually offshore.

This might work for vape sites since vape isn't technically illegal on a global scale, but they have to make sure it's not hosted on a server in the USA. Also, the content delivery networks is another possible problem.

We need an alternate internet. people are talking about that more and more these days.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Thanks for the quick reply! So at least we have until at least the end of the year to stock up. I have plenty of nic but I don’t trust all of it. I’ve had ssoo much bad luck with nic. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of my stash is bad.

You should check it and wait until the fall/winter to order. I remember you talking about your bad luck. So strange.

 

[zoiDman]

Yup, this happens a lot with "hate speech" website sites. In their case, it's somewhat easy just find a free speech host who won't cave in, usually offshore.

This might work for vape sites since vape isn't technically illegal on a gloabal scale, but they have to make sure it's not hosted on a server in the USA. Also, the content management system is another possible problem.

We need an alternate internet. people are talking about that more and more these days.

"Hate Speech" is a whole Different Animal. And brings up Subjective Concepts as well as 1st Amendment Rights issues.

For "Tobacco Products" that don't have a PMTA on File, I'd say it is pretty Cut n' Dried when it comes to Most Host Providers. And they would see it as a Violation of their TOS.

I'm sure they would take the attitude that it is One Thing for their Customers to be getting Letters from the FDA. But Quiet Another when they start getting Letters from the FCC.

BTW - The FDA has been including copies of the Warning Letters to ISP's/How Providers of Online Sties for awhile. It really Isn't anything new.

 

[zoiDman]

Forgive me if this has already been covered but this is a huge thread and I don’t feel like sifting through it. I’m wondering what happened with the nic tax? I’m looking at Heartland and their nic is still the same price. Wasn’t nic supposed to go up substantially in cost after September 9? (Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the prices are still the same, I’m just wondering if there was a minor victory for us?)

As Uncle mentioned, nothing has been Passed on the Federal Level.

But you might want to Read this...

When Governor Gavin Newsom (D) submits his revised budget proposal on Thursday, it will include a vapor tax increase. California currently taxes vapor products at 59.27 percent of wholesale value, but the proposal would impose an additional tax at a rate of $2 for each 40 milligrams of nicotine in the product. The tax would take effect January 1, 2021 and is forecasted to raise $32 million in FY 2021.

California the Latest to Propose Higher Vapor Taxes.

And just for Reference: There is 100,000 miligrams of Nicotine in 1 Liter of 100mg/ml Nicotine Base.

 

[ChelsB]

As Uncle mentioned, nothing has been Passed on the Federal Level.

But you might want to Read this...

When Governor Gavin Newsom (D) submits his revised budget proposal on Thursday, it will include a vapor tax increase. California currently taxes vapor products at 59.27 percent of wholesale value, but the proposal would impose an additional tax at a rate of $2 for each 40 milligrams of nicotine in the product. The tax would take effect January 1, 2021 and is forecasted to raise $32 million in FY 2021.

California the Latest to Propose Higher Vapor Taxes.

And just for Reference: There is 100,000 miligrams of Nicotine in 1 Liter of 100mg/ml Nicotine Base.

Thanks for that additional information. This affects me directly as I live in CA. I will read the article now