Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Vapeon4Life]

I have a question regarding the (horrible) upcoming shipping ban. Is ejuice and nicotine included? I thought it was just hardware but I’m seeing different things and I thought I’d ask you fine folks who are in the know. Also, what is the last date that stores will be legally able to ship? I think I remember reading April 24, 2021, but again, I want to confirm that with a reliable source.
Finally, I know internationally we have the PayPal issue but have found the work around with gift cards at FT. So will we still be able to order vape stuff from FT after the ban? Given that packages originate as China post and are usually marked with something generic like “electronic items” (or in my last shipment, “filters”) the package wouldn’t be against the rules and be deliverable once it’s transferred to usps?
Thanks in advance for your help/answers. It’s so sad things have got to this point. I’m glad I stocked up but worry about my friend who despite my warnings hasn’t stocked up much on hardware and doesn’t do diy ejuice.

First, there is no shipping ban !!!

The USPS, like with alcohol and cigarettes, will not be allowed to ship retail vape products to consumers and UPS and Fedex don't want to bother because of the record keeping required - they could change their minds.

There are big online dealers who are working on work arounds and I have no doubt they will find one or more - Probably a consortium of small shippers will be organized to ship legally - with modern computer record keeping and tracking the gov required record keeping will not be that difficult.

But expect this - There will be minimum order requirements {figure at least 50-100 dollars}, you will personally have to sign on delivery and shipping will probably be at least double of what you are now paying {forget about free shipping unless it is a real big order}.

The PMTA is still not causing much of a problem, and how much of a problem it will cause still remains to be seen.

One guess is that once they have shrunk the vaping industry some and stopped its expansion, they may be satisfied ???

 

[ChelsB]

First, there is no shipping ban !!!

The USPS, like with alcohol and cigarettes, will not be allowed to ship retail vape products to consumers and UPS and Fedex don't want to bother because of the record keeping required - they could change their minds.

There are big online dealers who are working on work arounds and I have no doubt they will find one or more - Probably a consortium of small shippers will be organized to ship legally - with modern computer record keeping and tracking the gov required record keeping will not be that difficult.

But expect this - There will be minimum order requirements {figure at least 50-100 dollars}, you will personally have to sign on delivery and shipping will probably be at least double of what you are now paying {forget about free shipping unless it is a real big order}.

The PMTA is still not causing much of a problem, and how much of a problem it will cause still remains to be seen.

One guess is that once they have shrunk the vaping industry some and stopped its expansion, they may be satisfied ???

It’s very easy for me to spend $100 on vaping stuff. I have always been surprised that I can order 250 mg nic with no adult signature required so I don’t mind that either. Thanks for answering! Sounds like there’s a glimmer of hope!

 

[Katya]

The PMTA is still not causing much of a problem, and how much of a problem it will cause still remains to be seen.

I think this is the big question. It all now depends on the FDA approvals and rejections of PMTAs. What will be allowed after September? iQos and Juul?

 

[Bronze]

First, there is no shipping ban !!!

The USPS, like with alcohol and cigarettes, will not be allowed to ship retail vape products to consumers and UPS and Fedex don't want to bother because of the record keeping required - they could change their minds.

There are big online dealers who are working on work arounds and I have no doubt they will find one or more - Probably a consortium of small shippers will be organized to ship legally - with modern computer record keeping and tracking the gov required record keeping will not be that difficult.

But expect this - There will be minimum order requirements {figure at least 50-100 dollars}, you will personally have to sign on delivery and shipping will probably be at least double of what you are now paying {forget about free shipping unless it is a real big order}.

The PMTA is still not causing much of a problem, and how much of a problem it will cause still remains to be seen.

One guess is that once they have shrunk the vaping industry some and stopped its expansion, they may be satisfied ???

So you know something all these out of business online retailers haven’t already investigated?

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

If I made the mistake of letting other vapers I know that I have been stashing nic and they refused to stash themselves, at some point I would seriously consider telling them I've gone 0 nic and ask them if they want some nic. Sell them 10-30ml for dirt cheap or give it to them. (I mean, if you have a nice stash to begin with.)

Then remember this for the future (pertains to any kind of prepping)...

Rule 1: Never tell anyone you are a prepper
Rule 2: See rule #1.

 

[Bronze]

If I made the mistake of letting other vapers I know that I have been stashing nic and they refused to stash themselves, at some point I would seriously consider telling them I've gone 0 nic and ask them if they want some nic. Sell them 10-30ml for dirt cheap or give it to them. (I mean, if you have a nice stash to begin with.)

Then remember this for the future (pertains to any kind of prepping)...

Rule 1: Never tell anyone you are a prepper
Rule 2: See rule #1.

Rule 3: Keep neighbor out of my freezer

 

[newyork13]

And this will do something ????

Besides tobacco, I've been a supplement {ie. vitamins, herbs, etc.} user for about 50 years and way back then there were some of your control freaks and big pharma shills trying to regulate the health food supplement industry like all vitamins would be highly regulated {LIKE VAPE PRODJUCTS} - But we had millions of people to fight them - And almost every health food store had a petition to sign to stop them - We won and legislation was passed to ensure the availability of supplements and without FDA {often nick named the food and death administration}
regulation.

Unfortunately this will not work with vape products
- There are not enough people, and part of the current anti-vape campaign is designed to make sure there never will be enough people - to block the big pharma control freak agenda.

I am now actually getting to believe that signing these petitions may not only not work - But if not enough people are signing, may have a counter productive effect - If petitions are only getting 10-20 thousand signatures - the politicians look at the numbers and say: Will not effects my electability so
f--k em - If you can't hurt him politically he, or she,
doesn't give a dam that your tobacco habit is safer than others - 50 years ago cigarette commercials were continuous and 24/7; now I see endless commercials for cancer drugs - Why would big pharma let you interfere with the multi trillion dollar cancer industry by giving people a product that is much safer and less likely, if at all, likely to cause cancer???

Get with the agenda, cancer is in and safe tobacco is out !!!!!

PS: I did sign it anyway - they have less than 3000 signers so far
- If it doesn't hit 20 or 30 thousand it is futile.

To your point, it may indeed be a lose lose situation. So, I'll sign it and lose, rather than not sign it and lose.
There was no good rational reason for our politicians to have done this.
Thus, I'll keep repeating this until my blue face turns bluer: term limits.

 

[Territoo]

Your view on this is optimistic, overly so in fact. There is a shipping ban with USPS who currently handles, at least for part of the shipping, 80-90% of all vape mail. FedEx and UPS could change their minds, but that is highly unlikely, given the extreme time and cost of ID checks and signature acquisition requirements involved in a residential delivery. If it were profitable, they would not be refusing to do it now. That makes the vape mail ban virtually complete. No other entity delivers to every address in the USA. For the smaller companies, already struggling because of covid, this is a death blow and many are closing. This is a fact. A few of the larger ones are trying for a work around and may succeed in getting regional deliveries or even a network of national deliveries to the urban areas. This however neglects the suburban and rural areas, who will be dependent on the remaining brick and mortar shops. This will be fine until the PMTA Deeming is finished in September. At that point, any item whose PMTA is not approved or wasn't submitted in the first place cannot be sold. This leaves the vape shops with a limited selection to sell, one that they are not likely to be able to compete with the gas stations and convenience stores. A few of the larger ones may survive, again in the big cities. You may still be able to purchase hardware illegally from China, at the risk of having your package confiscated and destroyed by customs. Ejuice is going to be harder to obtain. That is why it is recommended to stock up on nicotine base now.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

now

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Ejuice is going to be harder to obtain. That is why it is recommended to stock up on nicotine base now.

Question - I found an online dealer who has pre-mixed nicotine, some in the currently low level nicotine {1.5 mg and 3.0 mg} I use in commercial juice. I don't want to get involved in mixing pure nicotine base - Can I buy these pre-mixed {VG PG ratios can be chosen} and store them in the freezer? How long will they stay usable?

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I don't want to get involved in mixing pure nicotine base

100mg/ml base is 10% nic, not pure nic.

 

[Rossum]

If I made the mistake of letting other vapers I know that I have been stashing nic and they refused to stash themselves, at some point I would seriously consider telling them I've gone 0 nic and ask them if they want some nic. Sell them 10-30ml for dirt cheap or give it to them. (I mean, if you have a nice stash to begin with.)

Once you do that, they'll keep coming back for more; like stray cats or racoons.

 

[smacuser]

100mg/ml base is 10% nic, not pure nic.

Yeah, neither is 999.99mg/ml

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Once you do that, they'll keep coming back for more; like stray cats or racoons.

You misunderstood. Not talking about giving nic away to appease nic zombies. I'm talking about making people who you mistakenly let know you have nic think that you went 0 nic.

This is for people that become a problem or you perceive to be a problem.

But you gotta do it in a calculated and believable/natural way.

 

[Katya]

Question - I found an online dealer who has pre-mixed nicotine, some in the currently low level nicotine {1.5 mg and 3.0 mg} I use in commercial juice. I don't want to get involved in mixing pure nicotine base - Can I buy these pre-mixed {VG PG ratios can be chosen} and store them in the freezer? How long will they stay usable?

Actually, lower concentration probably lasts longer, but you're going to need a very large freezer. Or, if you're uncomfortable with 100/mg, maybe 50 mg/ml would do. 10% nic is very safe and easy to handle.

 

[YoursTruli]

Maybe, where is a vape shop worker going to go get a job these days? (I live in an economically depressed area of the USA)

Here there is a shortage of workers. The service industry is begging for employees. Restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations, convenient stores and honestly all stores from Targets to Wal-Marts are begging for employees. Skilled and unskilled tradesmen (they will to train you/earn as you learn) begging for employees. The healthcare industry is begging for employees of all levels... I honestly can't think of one sector that isn't hiring. If you are out of work here it's because you don't want to work. I


I'm so not surprised vape shops (employees/customers/maybe even owners) are uninformed/blissfully unaware/in denial/unwilling to inform... what ever. This, much to our demise, has been the case with every big issue confronting vaping throughout the years in my experience. You would think they should be our biggest advocates yet most have remained consistently silent.

 

[Territoo]

Question - I found an online dealer who has pre-mixed nicotine, some in the currently low level nicotine {1.5 mg and 3.0 mg} I use in commercial juice. I don't want to get involved in mixing pure nicotine base - Can I buy these pre-mixed {VG PG ratios can be chosen} and store them in the freezer? How long will they stay usable?

No, they can't be frozen because freezing will affect the flavoring. They can be stored in the refrigerator for several years without much adverse effects, maybe some color change. How many years is hard to say because it hasn't really been studied. If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say three or four.

 

[Rossum]

At that point, any item whose PMTA is not approved or wasn't submitted in the first place cannot be sold. This leaves the vape shops with a limited selection to sell, one that they are not likely to be able to compete with the gas stations and convenience stores. A few of the larger ones may survive, again in the big cities.

I think there's another sort of establishment that will survive: The mixed, "Smoke & Vape" shops. Many (or maybe most?) places that were once strictly smoke shops took to carrying vape-stuff too during the last 5-6 years. As to what they will have available after the PMTA deadline, that's anyone's guess. In fact, what they have available might vary based on how long they've known a customer. If I were averse to stocking up, I would see if I could develop a relationship with such a place.

 

[Rossum]

Question - I found an online dealer who has pre-mixed nicotine, some in the currently low level nicotine {1.5 mg and 3.0 mg} I use in commercial juice. I don't want to get involved in mixing pure nicotine base - Can I buy these pre-mixed {VG PG ratios can be chosen} and store them in the freezer? How long will they stay usable?

If it's unflavored, you can store it in the freezer and it should last indefinitely. Trouble is it will take up 30-60 times as much space as 100 mg nic base would.

If it's flavored, all bets are off. Some flavorings don't like freezer temperatures.

 

[Territoo]

I think there's another sort of establishment that will survive: The mixed, "Smoke & Vape" shops. Many (or maybe most?) places that were once strictly smoke shops took to carrying vape-stuff too during the last 5-6 years. As to what they will have available after the PMTA deadline, that's anyone's guess. In fact, what they have available might vary based on how long they've known a customer. If I were averse to stocking up, I would see if I could develop a relationship with such a place.

I agree with you, but these specialty shops aren't too common in rural areas. There's one in the next town over, and it does sell vape supplies. I've never been in it. There are (or were, I dont know) three vape shops in the same town. I visited two of them, one time each, in the three years since I've moved to the area.