Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Tor R]

Even if the FDA continues to go bananas, they are unlikely to be able to crack our way of vaping, i.e. those who vape as a hobby.

Evolv, Dicodes, Yihi, now lately Omega Vaper, will be making chipsets for many years.
They still sells mod parts for diy, Stealth Vape, Modmaker, not to forget Modforge aka ModDog. There is no sign that any of them are going to disappear, all of them make parts for the European modmaker industry, and they sell to us hobby builders too.
On the net there are drawings for making 3D printed ones

All that said, there have been fewer similar offers from China.

On AliExpress we can buy copper, aluminium, SS, PMMA, Peek, Pei, POM blocks & sheets.

All a man needs is some drill bits, taps, some screws, hacksaw, file, and a little plan, and he's in the process of making a mod.

FDA can stop brands and the finished product but they can never stop the hobby

 

[zoiDman]

It will be Interesting to see how Relentless, Inc. v. Department of Commerce and Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo play out before the Supreme Court.

 

[WorksForMe]

It will be Interesting to see how Relentless, Inc. v. Department of Commerce and Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo play out before the Supreme Court.

Yes it will. If the court overturns the Chevron Deference Doctrine, it will open a lot of new possibilities for lawsuits against the FDA by the vape industry. I listened to the oral arguments on C-SPAN yesterday, and all of the conservative justices were critical of Chevron.

Today's Supreme Court Argument Hints That It Will Drive a Stake Through the Heart of Federal Rulemaking

redstate.com

https://www.c-span.org/video/?532624-1/relentless-inc-v-department-commerce-oral-argument

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[zoiDman]

Yes it will. If the court overturns the Chevron Deference Doctrine, it will open a lot of new possibilities for lawsuits against the FDA by the vape industry. I listened to the oral arguments on C-SPAN yesterday, and all of the conservative justices were critical of Chevron.

Today's Supreme Court Argument Hints That It Will Drive a Stake Through the Heart of Federal Rulemaking

redstate.com

https://www.c-span.org/video/?532624-1/relentless-inc-v-department-commerce-oral-argument

.

I Agree... And have Very Mixed feelings about how a Ruling might be handed down.

Because Blanket, Status Quo, Deference to Agencies with every changing Political Leadership isn't Viable. But by the same token Throwing the Entire Regulatory Realm into disarray and doing Wholesale Legal Clearcutting isn't going to work either.

The Long and the Short of it is Congress needs to do a Better Job when granting Authority or Implementing a Base Policy.

If the Intent of the Marlboro Protection Act truly was to define a Zero Nicotine Liquid as a product "made from and/or derived from tobacco" then why didn't the drafters of the Original Legislation Statutorily say so?

 

[WorksForMe]

I Agree... And have Very Mixed feelings about how a Ruling might be handed down.

Because Blanket, Status Quo, Deference to Agencies with every changing Political Leadership isn't Viable. But by the same token Throwing the Entire Regulatory Realm into disarray and doing Wholesale Legal Clearcutting isn't going to work either.

While I agree that overturning Chevron would cause a lot of chaos, maybe that’s what is needed to force Congress to take back its lawmaking responsibilities from the Executive Branch. Right now, government agencies make more “laws” than Congress.

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[zoiDman]

While I agree that overturning Chevron would cause a lot of chaos, maybe that’s what is needed to force Congress to take back its lawmaking responsibilities from the Executive Branch. Right now, government agencies make more “laws” than Congress.

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I Lean that way Myself.

 

[englishmick]

"Vaping is a great example of humanity’s failure to live up to its own hype. We’ve swapped an addiction we knew was dangerous for another that could well be. Sometimes progress is an illusion."

This was the opening para in a scholarly article about the different options the UK Labour Party has for handling progressive social issues. Vaping wasn't mentioned again in the article. Guess we've become a meme.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Guess we've become a meme.

Which is strange because my perception is that vaping is pretty damn popular over there and generally way more socially acceptable than almost anywhere else. Maybe that particular author is somehow associated with British American Tobacco.

 

[WorksForMe]

Well, they shot down a couple more today. Suorin Air and blu PLUS+ products received MDOs.

FDA Denies Marketing of Suorin and blu PLUS+ E-Cigarette Products

Multidisciplinary Scientific Review Finds Products Do Not Meet the Necessary Public Health Standard

www.fda.gov

“Thorough scientific review of tobacco products applications is a key pillar of FDA’s comprehensive regulatory approach,” said Brian King., Ph.D., M.P.H., Director of FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products. “It is the applicant’s responsibility to ensure that sufficient scientific evidence is included in an application to meet the necessary public health standard required by law. In these cases, such evidence was lacking.”

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[Tor R]

According to the 2023 National Youth Tobacco Survey (NYTS), 3.8% of middle and high school students who used e-cigarettes in the past 30 days reported using Suorin brand products during that period.

When the school students answer which products they use, it results in a product ban, perhaps asking them to answer a little smarter in the future...

 

[WorksForMe]

When the school students answer which products they use, it results in a product ban, perhaps asking them to answer a little smarter in the future...

According to the 2023 National Youth Tobacco Survey (NYTS), 3.8% of middle and high school students who used e-cigarettes in the past 30 days reported using Suorin brand products during that period.

That quote is misleading. 3.8% of students who used e-cigarettes is less than half of 1% of all the students. That's not a reason to stop adults from using a product.

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[UncLeJunkLe]

That quote is misleading. 3.8% of students who used e-cigarettes is less than half of 1% of all the students. That's not a reason to stop adults from using a product.

That's assuming a fair game is being played. But that's not the case.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

When the school students answer which products they use, it results in a product ban, perhaps asking them to answer a little smarter in the future...

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Y'know, I don't mind fair regulation. Many, if not most capitalists have no conscience or care for anything but to make a buck and that gets outta hand. Unfortunately the FDA is trying to do something other than fair regulation.

This is what I got in the package from Vapor42. Sorry, but that's just wrong and not the way an adult product should be allowed to be marketed. You can debate the marketing materials, but the lollipop? Uuuummmm, not so much.

 

[WorksForMe]

​

This is what I got in the package from Vapor42. Sorry, but that's just wrong and not the way an adult product should be allowed to be marketed. You can debate the marketing materials, but the lollipop? Uuuummmm, not so much.

I'm confused about why you're upset that a vape shop threw a lollypop in with your order, Did they entice you with it before you placed your order? They're only supposed to sell vapor products to adults, so it shouldn't matter.

.

 

[englishmick]

I'm confused about why you're upset that a vape shop threw a lollypop in with you order, Did they entice you with it before you placed your order? They're only supposed to sell vapor products to adults, so it shouldn't matter.

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It does seem like it's handing ammunition to the anti-vaping lobby. Gifts are nice, but maybe something vape related. Or at least something more adult orientated.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

It does seem like it's handing ammunition to the anti-vaping lobby. Gifts are nice, but maybe something vape related. Or at least something more adult orientated.

This.

Besides, there was no age verification service on the site, only an age gate. About end of 2020. And we all know that age gates are pointless. Clicking a button that states "I am 21+" is pointless.

Before "vape", from what I've seen of the "ecig" market, it was much more toned-down & unquestionably adult-targetting.

Example...

 

[hittman]

I’ve run into a few instances doing reviews where there are promotional images from the manufacturers that either portray someone that could possibly be a teen or the image is just too kid like. I won’t use them in my reviews and have talked to other reviewers that won’t use them either.

 

[Letitia]

It does seem like it's handing ammunition to the anti-vaping lobby. Gifts are nice, but maybe something vape related. Or at least something more adult orientated.

I'm an adult and love candy, am I supposed to give up that for the kids as well? I see your point but I honestly believe no kid is particularly interested in the sucker over the contraband vape device.

 

[englishmick]

I'm an adult and love candy, am I supposed to give up that for the kids as well? I see your point but I honestly believe no kid is particularly interested in the sucker over the contraband vape device.

Of course not. And no kids are going to even see that sucker unless they are already vaping. And no kid bought a vape because it had a picture of a popular cartoon character on the box. But that's not how it will be presented in the anti-vaping propaganda.