Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[nicnik]

Doing the Same. Night All.

Goodnight Zoid. Brave of you to face what you dream tonight...

 

[The Ocelot]

Depends on what you deem to be a dream.

I hope we're not fighting windmills...

To dream the impossible deem
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go...

 

[nicnik]

Is there any recording of the Dr. Sigeli(?) webinar thingy from earlier? I was at work all day and missed it!

Yes, been posted on this thread, maybe a couple times, even.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

As much as I respect Bill, he does tend to stir the pot on occasion, calling for a total shift from repubs to dems for example. Whee, was that fun!

Got to wonder why he called out the FDA like that? If it was to get media attention, I would think that would do it, but at what costs to us who normally DIY. Some ppl talk out their ... cause their mouth knows better. ou vey

 

[StormFinch]

Thanks!

Edit: Link in the post you linked to, is broken.

Huh, works for me. Try this:

 

[Katya]

calling for a total shift from repubs to dems for example.

Um...

And now I'm really gone...

 

[StormFinch]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the FDA was secretly behind all these vape surveys we've been filling out, over the last few years?

It seems like they know EXACTLY what to "cover" in the regs...

It wasn't the surveys, everything they learned was taken from their own comment periods. You know, where they're required by law to allow people that will be affected by their regulations to comment on them?

 

[YoursTruli]

Everyone is saying 99% of everything will cease to exist. Others are suggesting contacting local state representitives whom i dont think give a .... being they are also funded by heavy cigarette taxation as well.

I did the CASAA thing but I personally dont think anything beyond contesting in courts which is where all hope lies will work. Possibly a Million Man Vapor march on Capital Hill but yeah... I dont see such taking place.

That about sums it up or did I miss something capable of defeating this tobacco funded Govt sabotage?

Vapers March on Washington DC!

 

[The Ocelot]

I think if I were a maker of drip tips, I'd apply for approval of a few. Say three: red, white and puce. I suppose each would require a separate application. Then I'd "quantify the likelihood that nonsmokers will start using the product" by saying that there is no possible way to quantify it, but I sure hope a lot of them do, as the nonsmokers are likely to be vapers looking for a more colorful drip tip. Black is so boring.

As for the likelihood of former smokers relapsing back to nicotine by use of the product, do you think the FDA would be satisfied if I did a poll of former smokers: "Would these nice drip tips cause you to start vaping?" Or I could tell them that a more likely cause of such a relapse would be anxiety and stress associated with wondering what's the next good product the FDA will decide to regulate out of existence.

Might these drip tips cause users to "progress" to smoking"? That seems unlikely, but the FDA demands proof. I don't suppose I could get away with saying "no," that it wouldn't be progress for vapers to take up smoking. Nah, that would never fly. I'd have to do double-blind, random clinical trials. Give the trial group my nice drip tips and give the control group vape gear with no drip tips, and maybe give a third group cheap black drip tips. And see how many of each group "progressed." Yeah, that should do it.

What is the likelihood that consumers will use the product in conjunction with other tobacco products? Well, if mods and atomizers are tobacco products, I'd have to say the odds are close to 100%. Whatta ya goin to do? Can't lie about it--probably a felony.

What is the likelihood that smokers who start using my drip tips would otherwise have quit smoking? Hummm, that's a hard one. Now, in a world without drip tips I'd have to admit that vaping might be more cumbersome and people might be less motivated to vape and instead say "To hell with it, I'll just go cold turkey." So does this apply to drip tips in general, or mine as compared to others? I'd like to think mine are the most attractive, but it seems unlikely that that would be the determining factor as to whether someone vapes instead of quitting cold turkey (if that's what they mean by "quit smoking"). I might be inclined to say that if you vape you're not smoking. But I don't want to PO the FDA. They might not take my application seriously.

You should probably roll a bunch of the tips out on the floor in front of babies to make sure they aren't attracted to them.

 

[StormFinch]

Um...

And now I'm really gone...

Yeah, yeah, I know. But doing that amongst this many people is like throwing a single piece of candy into an entire auditorium full of pre-schoolers. lol

 

[The Ocelot]

I think it just proves the point many have made already.. They really have no plans to actually do anything but let everything expire. And time takes care of that......
I wonder how much of our tax dollars went into this drivel...

When FDA funding (via our tax dollars) could have been used to find ways to assist Orphan Drug approval.

 

[The Ocelot]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the FDA was secretly behind all these vape surveys we've been filling out, over the last few years?

It seems like they know EXACTLY what to "cover" in the regs...

I certainly do. I filled out every survey I saw, like the ones "students" posted for school papers. I'm sickened to think when I answered detailed questions about the types of equipment I used and the vendors I purchased from I was giving the FDA ammunition.

 

[The Ocelot]

Thanks!

Edit: Link in the post you linked to, is broken.

 

[AKs0n-]

Vapers March on Washington DC!

If this .... ever happens count me the .... in. Im SO ...... and saddened, Im sure like most everyone else. I want to E-Cigs to destroy big tobacco not the Govt sabotage them from doin such... unacceptable

 

[The Ocelot]

Um...

And now I'm really gone...

I don't believe you.

 

[The Ocelot]

It wasn't the surveys, everything they learned was taken from their own comment periods. You know, where they're required by law to allow people that will be affected by their regulations to comment on them?

I'm not so sure. The comments were whatever people wanted to say, but the surveys had specific questions about equipment and vendors.

 

[nicnik]

I'm not so sure. The comments were whatever people wanted to say, but the surveys had specific questions about equipment and vendors.

But is it info that couldn't be collected from ecf and other online vaping discussions?

 

[DC2]

I would love to see that reference if you find it, dang the one vendor I order from custom mixes all their eliquid per order, no premade, so this really concerns me a lot.

See the last bullet point...
Retailer Overview of FDA Regulations for Selling Tobacco Products

Rules for Sales of E-Cigarettes and Other Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems

Some examples of ENDS include e-cigarettes, vape pens, e-hookahs, e-cigars, personal vaporizers and electronic pipes.

• Check photo ID of everyone under age 27 who attempts to purchase e-cigarettes or other ENDS.
• Only sell e-cigarettes and other ENDS to customers age 18 and older.2
• Do NOT give away free samples of e-cigarettes or other ENDS, including any of their components or parts.
• Do NOT sell e-cigarettes or other ENDS in a vending machine unless in an adult-only facility. 3
• Beginning in 2018, do NOT sell or distribute e-cigarettes or other ENDS without a health warning statement on the package.1
• Beginning in 2018, do NOT display advertisements for e-cigarettes or other ENDS without a health warning statement.1
• If you operate a vape shop that mixes or prepares liquid nicotine or nicotine-containing e-liquids, or creates or modifies any type of ENDS, you are considered a tobacco product manufacturer and must comply with all of the legal requirements for tobacco product manufacturers.

 

[nicnik]

Retailer Overview of FDA Regulations for Selling Tobacco Products

See the last bullet point...

And starting with the August date, no more coil building in vape shops.

 

[Kent C]

A big factor in the disroportionate racial makeup of the prison population in the US.

So some think, or so some say.