Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[nicnik]

I am really praying here he is mistaken, I feel like someone kicked me seriously my ADV the ONLY flavor I vape consistently for the last 4 going on 5 years comes from gourmet vapers who mixes by the order.

I hope I'm mistaken, too. If not, your vender needs to be aware, if they aren't.

 

[The Ocelot]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I'm losing track. This Q&A with Dr. Siegel was really informative. The 42min mark really touches on what I hope our message becomes: Why do we have to prove vaping is beneficial to public health, when tobacco companies don't have to prove that? In fact we know that it's certainly not.

He goes on to explain why this should be our key message, and I totally agree. Putting everything else aside- this one fact is the simplest way to call shenanigans on all of it. If we get bogged down in side arguments and details, I just don't see how we can win. Heck, I've been reading this thread for days and barely understand half of it still.

Worth watching the full thing for those that haven't.

A couple of times during the interview sirens can be heard in the background. Am I the only one who was waiting for an FDA SWAT team to take down Dr. Siegel?

 

[zoiDman]

Let me Just get this Straight.

They Sell Cigarettes (Which have Mountains of Studies showing their Hazards. And Kill like 400,000 People a Year. Every Year) and they want to do All This to Vaping?

 

[nicnik]

If This is True about Mixed e-Liquids not being able to be Sold after 90 Days because it is a "New Product"

That's not what I'm saying. Stuff already on the shelves or supplied from elswhere that was mixed before the August date is OK.

And the only part I'm certain of, is that mixing is manufacturing. I hate all this pretending that one thing is really another, just by FDA's saying so.

 

[Katya]

A couple of times during the interview sirens can be heard in the background. Am I the only one who was waiting for an FDA SWAT team to take down Dr. Siegel?

No.

Let me Just get this Straight.

They Sell Cigarettes (Which have Mountains of Studies showing their Hazards. And Kill like 400,000 People a Year. Every Year) and they want to All This to Vaping?

Yes.

Night, Folks...

 

[StormFinch]

did you catch what Bill Godshall had to say in the comments?

"Bill Godshall • 13 hours ago

The most immediate public health and safety threat posed by FDA's inhumane cigarette protecting vapor product ban is the now skyrocketing sales of highly concentrated nicotine e-liquid to vapers for stockpiling and for mixing (i.e. manufacturing) their own e-liquid at home.

After August 8, 2016, the 2,500 vape shops (that buy 100mg/ml nicotine and mix their own e-liquids for customers) will be banned from selling newly manfuctured e-liquid to consumers (and will only be able to sell prebottled e-liquid products that were already on the market on 8/8/16).

So instead of 2,500 vape shops buying and mixing 100mg/ml (or more highly concentrated) nicotine e-liquid, a million or more vapers will soon be buying and mixing 100mg/ml e-liquid in their homes."

wow really? so does this mean when current stock of prebottled eliquid runs out after 8/8/16 that shops will no longer be able to make and sell their eliquid? That is not how I understood it, I thought as long as it was the exact same eliquid recipes they had been making before that date they could continue to make it...

SFATA didn't bring up anything like this with their dooming regs analysis, as brief as it was, so I'm kind of doubting this to be the case. The last time I looked, at least one of their lawyers used to work for the FDA, so I imagine they would know. You can see the analysis here, apologies if it's been posted before: http://sfata.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/SFATADeemingReuglationsAnalysis.pdf

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Can't help you, love. I don't have a clue...

I think it just proves the point many have made already.. They really have no plans to actually do anything but let everything expire. And time takes care of that......
I wonder how much of our tax dollars went into this drivel, I can see it now....yeah, lets put xyz in there(while laughing their a$$es off-knowing it makes no sense).
I went searching and found the cigarette regs. They used them as a blueprint for these deeming regs and just looks like they tried to adapt them to ecigs. I say tried because it is clear they still think vaping is smoking.

 

[zoiDman]

That's not what I'm saying. Stuff already on the shelves or supplied from elswhere that was mixed before the August date is OK.

And the only part I'm certain of, is that mixing is manufacturing. I hate all this pretending that one thing is really another, just by FDA's saying so.

But How Long would this "On the Shelf" stuff Last? What type of Inventory does an Average Vape Shop Carry?

Sure, the Bigger Companies can Carry More $ in Inventory. But I would be Surprised if even Most of them had a 3 Month Supply once a Run on e-Liquids Start.

I'm Really Hoping that the FDA is Not Seeing this the Same way as Bill is.

 

[nicnik]

I think if I were a maker of drip tips, I'd apply for approval of a few. Say three: red, white and puce. I suppose each would require a separate application. Then I'd "quantify the likelihood that nonsmokers will start using the product" by saying that there is no possible way to quantify it, but I sure hope a lot of them do, as the nonsmokers are likely to be vapers looking for a more colorful drip tip. Black is so boring.

As for the likelihood of former smokers relapsing back to nicotine by use of the product, do you think the FDA would be satisfied if I did a poll of former smokers: "Would these nice drip tips cause you to start vaping?" Or I could tell them that a more likely cause of such a relapse would be anxiety and stress associated with wondering what's the next good product the FDA will decide to regulate out of existence.

Might these drip tips cause users to "progress" to smoking"? That seems unlikely, but the FDA demands proof. I don't suppose I could get away with saying "no," that it wouldn't be progress for vapers to take up smoking. Nah, that would never fly. I'd have to do double-blind, random clinical trials. Give the trial group my nice drip tips and give the control group vape gear with no drip tips, and maybe give a third group cheap black drip tips. And see how many of each group "progressed." Yeah, that should do it.

What is the likelihood that consumers will use the product in conjunction with other tobacco products? Well, if mods and atomizers are tobacco products, I'd have to say the odds are close to 100%. Whatta ya goin to do? Can't lie about it--probably a felony.

What is the likelihood that smokers who start using my drip tips would otherwise have quit smoking? Hummm, that's a hard one. Now, in a world without drip tips I'd have to admit that vaping might be more cumbersome and people might be less motivated to vape and instead say "To hell with it, I'll just go cold turkey." So does this apply to drip tips in general, or mine as compared to others? I'd like to think mine are the most attractive, but it seems unlikely that that would be the determining factor as to whether someone vapes instead of quitting cold turkey (if that's what they mean by "quit smoking"). I might be inclined to say that if you vape you're not smoking. But I don't want to PO the FDA. They might not take my application seriously.

Ok, that does it. You are now a contender for who here is most in need of sleep.

 

[StormFinch]

But How Long would this "On the Shelf" stuff Last? What type of Inventory does an Average Vape Shop Carry?

Sure, the Bigger Companies can Carry More $ in Inventory. But I would be Surprised if even Most of them had a 3 Month Supply once a Run on e-Liquids Start.

I'm Really Hoping that the FDA is Not Seeing this the Same way as Bill is.

Ironically enough, premixed stuff you bought before anyone hand mixed had a 2 year expiration date on it.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes.

Night, Folks...

Doing the Same. Night All.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

SFATA didn't bring up anything like this with their dooming regs analysis, as brief as it was, so I'm kind of doubting this to be the case. The last time I looked, at least one of their lawyers used to work for the FDA, so I imagine they would know. You can see the analysis here, apologies if it's been posted before: http://sfata.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/SFATADeemingReuglationsAnalysis.pdf

I really hope Bill Godshell knows what he is doing, if not he just help create even more doomsday scenerios.

 

[HBcorpse]

Is there any recording of the Dr. Sigeli(?) webinar thingy from earlier? I was at work all day and missed it!

 

[StormFinch]

I really hope Bill Godshell knows what he is doing, if not he just help create even more doomsday scenerios.

As much as I respect Bill, he does tend to stir the pot on occasion, calling for a total shift from repubs to dems for example. Whee, was that fun!

 

[nicnik]

Night, Folks...

Goodnight, Katya.
I hope the world is a bit kinder place May 11 than May 10.

 

[StormFinch]

Is there any recording of the Dr. Sigeli(?) webinar thingy from earlier? I was at work all day and missed it!

Yup, right here. Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

 

[AKs0n-]

Everyone is saying 99% of everything will cease to exist. Others are suggesting contacting local state representitives whom i dont think give a .... being they are also funded by heavy cigarette taxation as well.

I did the CASAA thing but I personally dont think anything beyond contesting in courts which is where all hope lies will work. Possibly a Million Man Vapor march on Capital Hill but yeah... I dont see such taking place.

That about sums it up or did I miss something capable of defeating this tobacco funded Govt sabotage?

 

[HBcorpse]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the FDA was secretly behind all these vape surveys we've been filling out, over the last few years?

It seems like they know EXACTLY what to "cover" in the regs...

 

[HBcorpse]

Yup, right here. Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

Thanks!

Edit: Link in the post you linked to, is broken.

 

[nicnik]

Ironically enough, premixed stuff you bought before anyone hand mixed had a 2 year expiration date on it.

Hmmm...2 years...gets you through to the date they make it disappear for good.