Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

...fixed that for you

Oh there will be mods. Just not what we would Consider very Usable or Practicle.

See... If there Weren't going to be Any mods, you would see the Gawd Awful Righteous Might of BT Rise Up and Bombard the FDA with a Legal Paper Storm.

But were Not going to See that. Because BT will get their PMTA Approvals. And even though the Silver Platter that e-Cigarettes are being handed to them Will Be Expensive, it is a Silver Platter all the Same.

And that is what BT has Wanted/Planned for since 2010.

 

[wiredlove]

Oh there will be mods. Just not what we would Consider very Usable or Practicle.

See... If there Weren't going to be Any Mods, you would see the Gawd Awful Righteous Might of BT Rise Up and Bombard the FDA with a Legal Paper Storm.

But were Not going to See that. Because BT will get their PMTA Approvals. And even though the Silver Platter that e-Cigarettes are being handed to them Will Be Expensive, it is a Silver Platter all the Same.

And that is what BT has Wanted/Planned for since 2010.

You're going to force me to start posting links to homemade DIY hardware-store mechanical mods and genesis style atomizers. :/

 

[Kent C]

Well, the Whiskey Rebellion started in 1791 during the beginning of his presidency. Washington didn't start building his distillery until 1797 after he was out of office. I'd say he'd of had some great business foresight if it were true.

One of the things that makes me scratch my head as it relates to Washington (and other founders) is that there are some today who call them big government advocates because they introduced a variety of new government programs. What they miss is there was ZERO government back in those days. Literally ZERO. So yes, new government programs are going to be introduced so you can have a country. And the first government program was a national defense...which still remains as the most important function of our federal government.

wiki - The whiskey tax was repealed after Thomas Jefferson's Republican Party, which opposed Hamilton's Federalist Party, came to power in 1801.

The Federalists were the 'big gov't party' at the time - we'd all be in joy for that 'big gov't' again. It was miniscule, but the Republican Party advocated even less control. During three, two term Presidents - 24 years - from the Republican Party, Jefferson, Madison and Monroe gov't maintained that small gov't concept. It was called the 'Second Revolution' and the Federalist party faded - esp. the Hamiltonian faction.

wiki - Upon assuming office, he (Jefferson) first confronted an $83 million national debt.[122] He began dismantling Hamilton's Federalist fiscal system with help from Secretary of Treasury Albert Gallatin.[121] Jefferson's administration eliminated the whiskey excise and other taxes after closing "unnecessary offices" and cutting "useless establishments and expenses".[123][124] They attempted to disassemble the national bank and its effect of increasing national debt, but were dissuaded by Gallatin.[125] Jefferson shrank the Navy, deeming it unnecessary in peacetime.[126] Instead he incorporated a fleet of inexpensive gunboats used only for defense with the idea that they would not provoke foreign hostilities.[123] After two terms, he had lowered the national debt from $83 million to $57 million

 

[bobwho77]

What they said. Without qualifying it, it means nothing, because it could mean treat ecigs like cigs, or it could mean give ecigs the same advantage of grandfathering in current products.

Maybe we should reverse the parity and treat ecigs like analog cigarettes..
Just leave them the @#&% ALONE!

 

[The Ocelot]

Doubt it. Vaping was low hanging profitable fruit especially since tobacco is involved.

Perhaps you were being sarcastic.

I was thinking of examples non-vapers could relate too.

 

[Bronze]

wiki - The whiskey tax was repealed after Thomas Jefferson's Republican Party, which opposed Hamilton's Federalist Party, came to power in 1801.

The Federalists were the 'big gov't party' at the time - we'd all be in joy for that 'big gov't' again. It was miniscule, but the Republican Party advocated even less control. During three, two term Presidents - 24 years - from the Republican Party, Jefferson, Madison and Monroe gov't maintained that small gov't concept. It was called the 'Second Revolution' and the Federalist party faded - esp. the Hamiltonian faction.

wiki - Upon assuming office, he (Jefferson) first confronted an $83 million national debt.[122] He began dismantling Hamilton's Federalist fiscal system with help from Secretary of Treasury Albert Gallatin.[121] Jefferson's administration eliminated the whiskey excise and other taxes after closing "unnecessary offices" and cutting "useless establishments and expenses".[123][124] They attempted to disassemble the national bank and its effect of increasing national debt, but were dissuaded by Gallatin.[125] Jefferson shrank the Navy, deeming it unnecessary in peacetime.[126] Instead he incorporated a fleet of inexpensive gunboats used only for defense with the idea that they would not provoke foreign hostilities.[123] After two terms, he had lowered the national debt from $83 million to $57 million

The Whiskey Tax was kind of a joke. While it was law, it was also largely ignored even after the Whiskey Rebellion. It was repealed more because it was unenforceable than anything else. Here's the bottom line. Whether it be Washington (unaffiliated), the Federalists, or the Democrat-Republicans they would all crap their pants if they saw what the federal government had their claws into these days....including vaping regulations.

 

[The Ocelot]

Once again England stands alone against the forces of darkness. Maybe down the road you guys will drop by to help us out like you did last time.

Yeah, the last time, not the first time.

 

[Kent C]

The Whiskey Tax was kind of a joke. While it was law, it was also largely ignored even after the Whiskey Rebellion. It was repealed more because it was unenforceable than anything else. Here's the bottom line. Whether it be Washington (unaffiliated), the Federalists, or the Democrat-Republicans they would all crap their pants if they saw what the federal government had their claws into these days....including vaping regulations.

Agree. Although the term 'Democrat-Republican' was never used at the time. It was the Republican party (not as today of course) but the term 'Democrat-Republican' was a revisionist attempt to make Jefferson the first "Democrat" President - when they used to admire him. First Democrat Prez - that would be Andrew Jackson :- )

 

[zoiDman]

You're going to force me to start posting links to homemade DIY hardware-store mechanical mods and genesis style atomizers. :/

Please Don't. Better to PM them people who Ask.

No Needed to get the FDA Microscope Pointed to those Links.

 

[Bronze]

Agree. Although the term 'Democrat-Republican' was never used at the time. It was the Republican party (not as today of course) but the term 'Democrat-Republican' was a revisionist attempt to make Jefferson the first "Democrat" President - when they used to admire him. First Democrat Prez - that would be Andrew Jackson :- )

True. Kind of like how the term "liberal" has morphed 20 times over.

 

[wiredlove]

Please Don't. Better to PM them people who Ask.

No Needed to get the FDA Microscope Pointed to those Links.

I have print-outs of all kinds of things, stretching back to 08.

Hey guys, why's the FDA knocking on m..... NO CARRIER

 

[The Ocelot]

Because it is Hard to find Balanced Articles that are Relatively Devoid of Emotional Rhetoric on the subject of e-Cigarettes. Also Hard to Find articles that include Links to Referenced Sources.

I've been going to Google News and searching FDA.

 

[Bob Chill]

That was a quote from the website.

As far as addiction goes - nicotine is not cigarettes. Since I can go 3-4 hours without vaping (not including sleep) and could never go that long without cigarettes when I was smoking, there's something else in cigarettes that make them more addictive. Nicotine by itself is not that addicting.

Couldn't agree more. If it was "just the nicotine" then all nicotine products would have the same powerful grip that cigarettes have. And we all know they don't. Not even close.

The engineering and additives in cigarettes go way far beyond nicotine (I know you know this. Just pointing stuff out). Not only with the incredibly quick delivery efficiency but also with MAOI properties that just sink the claws deep into the human psyche.

This study goes all the way back to 1996

Brain monoamine oxidase A inhibition in cigarette smokers

"Our results show that tobacco smoke exposure is associated with a marked reduction in brain MAO A, and this reduction is about half of that produced by a brief treatment with tranylcypromine. This suggests that MAO A inhibition needs to be considered as a potential contributing variable in the high rate of smoking in depression and in the development of more effective strategies for smoking cessation."

Antidepressant effects don't just affect people with some form of depression either. We all went through the "hollow feeling" period when transitioning from smoking to vaping. For me it only lasted 2 weeks. Some struggle for quite a long time and need WTA to help finally make the switch. As soon as I broke the "hollow" feelings I immediately started lowering my nicotine levels. I went from 18 to 12 in 4 weeks. And have continue to go down since then. If it was only nicotine in cigarettes then none of us would drop our levels. Strangely, the vast majority of us decrease nicotine levels in short order.

I'm at the point now where I'm certain that I could go zero nic. I only vape 3mls of 6mg/day. But I really have no intention to unless forced. I personally find benefits with my nicotine consumption just like I do with my caffeine consumption. My job requires a lot of concentration and math/analysis. I rely on caffeine/nicotine/theanine to keep my head clear and productive. Theanine has been great. It works in concert with caffeine but also alone. This is not the place to discuss it but anyone interested in natural brain supplements should definitely look into it. Lots of science on it.

 

[The Ocelot]

Schools Urged To Treat Teen Smokers With Nicotine Patch

Nicotine Patches and Chewing Gum

"Nicotine replacement therapy (NRT) isn't just for adults -- it's also an effective weapon for treating smoking addiction in teens. About 20 percent of high school students smoke, and half of adults who smoke develop an addiction by their 18th birthday, making adolescents an important target to kick the habit. While NRT product labels discourage NRT for teens, the latest medical guidelines recommend it as a safe and effective treatment option for them."

But what about the ANTZ stating the damage to developing brains from nicotine exposure?

 

[The Ocelot]

But, but, nicotine, adolescent brain development, but....

u haz beated me.

 

[nicnik]

Couldn't agree more. If it was "just the nicotine" then all nicotine products would have the same powerful grip that cigarettes have. And we all know they don't. Not even close.

The engineering and additives in cigarettes go way far beyond nicotine (I know you know this. Just pointing stuff out). Not only with the incredibly quick delivery efficiency but also with MAOI properties that just sink the claws deep into the human psyche.

This study goes all the way back to 1996

Brain monoamine oxidase A inhibition in cigarette smokers

"Our results show that tobacco smoke exposure is associated with a marked reduction in brain MAO A, and this reduction is about half of that produced by a brief treatment with tranylcypromine. This suggests that MAO A inhibition needs to be considered as a potential contributing variable in the high rate of smoking in depression and in the development of more effective strategies for smoking cessation."

Antidepressant effects don't just affect people with some form of depression either. We all went through the "hollow feeling" period when transitioning from smoking to vaping. For me it only lasted 2 weeks. Some struggle for quite a long time and need WTA to help finally make the switch. As soon as I broke the "hollow" feelings I immediately started lowering my nicotine levels. I went from 18 to 12 in 4 weeks. And have continue to go down since then. If it was only nicotine in cigarettes then none of us would drop our levels. Strangely, the vast majority of us decrease nicotine levels in short order.

I'm at the point now where I'm certain that I could go zero nic. I only vape 3mls of 6mg/day. But I really have no intention to unless forced. I personally find benefits with my nicotine consumption just like I do with my caffeine consumption. My job requires a lot of concentration and math/analysis. I rely on caffeine/nicotine/theanine to keep my head clear and productive. Theanine has been great. It works in concert with caffeine but also alone. This is not the place to discuss it but anyone interested in natural brain supplements should definitely look into it. Lots of science on it.

Are MOAI's produced by combustion, and are they in other types of smoke? Not added to the cigs, right?

 

[The Ocelot]

This should get you started and this list is contained in the Draft Guidance on PMTA

FDA recommends that you consider the following constituents28 for analysis in e-liquids and 1026 aerosols, as appropriate, for your product: 1027
1028
• Acetaldehyde 1029
• Acetyl Propionyl (also known as 2,3-pentanedione) 1030
• Acrolein 1031
• Acrylonitrile 1032
• 4-Aminobiphenyl 1033
• 1-Aminonaphthalene 1034
• 2-Aminonaphthalene 1035
• Ammonia 1036
• Anabasine 1037
• Benzene 1038
• Benzo[a]pyrene 1039
• 1,3-Butadiene
• Chromium 1042
• Crotonaldehyde 1043
• Diacetyl 1044
• Diethylene glycol 1045
• Ethylene glycol 1046
• Formaldehyde 1047
• Glycerol 1048
• Isoprene 1049
• Lead 1050
• Menthol 1051
• Nickel 1052
• Nicotine, including total nicotine and unprotonated nicotine 1053
• NNK (4-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone) 1054
• NNN (N-nitrosonornicotine) 1055
• Propylene glycol 1056
• Toluene 1057
• Other constituents, as appropriate

HTH

Compare and contrast: List of additives in cigarettes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mgmrick]

Tragic discarded cigarette causes house fire 6 dead in Syracuse ny....

 

[nicnik]

u haz beated me.

More powerful with multiple posts saying "Hypocrites!"

 

[Bob Chill]

Are MOAI's produced by combustion, and are they in other types of smoke? Not added to the cigs, right?

Some research was done on beta-carboline alkaloids in smoke (naturally occuring in tobacco).

Human monoamine oxidase is inhibited by tobacco smoke: beta-carboline alkaloids act as potent and reversible inhibitors. - PubMed - NCBI

The odd thing is cigars and pipes don't seem to have such a strong effect as cigarettes. Could be the smoking style (inhale vs mouth). Or it could be that cigarette companies figured out how to be as efficient as possible with every angle of addiction. Which we'll never have proof of.

I've often wondered that if we went back to original "formula" of cigarettes, would the habit be so hard to quit? I'm guessing it wouldn't but that's just a guess.