Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[nicnik]

Some will shrink away from such tactics.

On the other hand...
greatest myths we heard about e cigs.

For the past year, any time I click on any link that you post to another post on ecf, it'll take me there, but also log me out.

It only happens when the link is posted by you, not others, but there was one time it happened from someone else's post.

I've come to expect that with your links to ecf, and it's almost always worth it to put up with that little buggy thing, so I click, read and log back in.

 

[StormFinch]

I believe components are, accessories are not. The only example of an e-cig accessory that the FDA provided was a lanyard. coils, cotton, batteries, those are all components when reasonably assumed to be used with a vapor product. Tweezers are probably accessories, as are screw drivers.

Except that tweezers are... how did they put it... reasonably expected to effect the tobacco product? If you use them to adjust your coils, I'm guessing in the Federal Disaster Agency's mind that would make them a tobacco product.

 

[mattiem]

Thank you for filming this Lessifer and making it available for all of us to share

 

[nicnik]

BTW - Having only One Category of "Dual Users" doesn't take into account those who are using e-Cigarettes to Transition Off Combustible Tobacco.

Something that should be Mentioned EVERY time the Nay-Sayers bring up the Dual User thing. That and the Harm Reduction concept.

Yup.

 

[nicnik]

There are several different brands doing Jacks, none of them suit his fancy?

I don't think. Maybe you should send him links, but if it doesn't work out, it might just make him feel worse.

 

[supertrunker]

Tweezers are probably accessories, as are screw drivers.

The tweezers are for HRH's eyebrows and the screwdriver for the bolt in her neck!

We seem to lose sight at times that in the West we generally legislate against specific things and anything else is legal. It's very different in other places where anything not expressly allowed is forbidden.

How unworkable is all this nonsense? HRH removes her makeup with a cotton ball, i make a wick from a bit of it (i like the taste of pancake foundation). FDA does what?

Bites my white .... is what!

T

 

[StormFinch]

While I am still musing the legal meaning on 'Criminal negligence'...

There's no pre-crime, there's no harm done, no victims - yet.

Think long term. Think of the children. Think of your children. Lets protect them.
From agencies. From institutions that have spun out of control.

Please, document all these names where vapers have switched to smoking.
Make it watertight for a future ( long future ) lawsuit. Something in the scope of the MSA.
But don't ask for $$$. That'll just find it's way back to you in higher taxation. Ask for restructuring.

The folks currently in power/office couldn't care less, they'll be retired or dead by then too.

Write the names and dates down.
A name at a time, a pebble at a time, start building an avalanche.

Dude, I'm not even sure which part of Faceless Book I saw it on at this point. No names were mentioned to protect the smokers. It is an interesting concept however. Need a website: report in here if you've returned to smoking thanks to the FDA.

 

[buffaloguy]

Some will shrink away from such tactics.

On the other hand...
greatest myths we heard about e cigs.

Then they WILL lose.

 

[nicnik]

Thank you for filming this Lessifer and making it available for all of us to share

Was there actually an attatchment in that email? I opened it with two different apps, and both showed no attatchment, as was promised in the text.

 

[DC2]

For the past year, any time I click on any link that you post to another post on ecf, it'll take me there, but also log me out.

It only happens when the link is posted by you, not others, but there was one time it happened from someone else's post.

Hmmmmm...

That is interesting because I have long been having problems with getting logged out.
It's a problem that comes and goes.

I've started a thread in Forum Feedback and Help but I've not gotten a resolution yet.
I can imagine that my problems could possibly be involved in your problems.

My best suggestion, until my links become less toxic...
Right click on them and "open in new tab" might work out better for you...

 

[mattiem]

Was there actually an attatchment in that email? I opened it with two different apps, and both showed no attatchment, as was promised in the text.

I just clicked on the photo in the email and it took me to the youtube video posted along with a message on change.org.

 

[StormFinch]

I knew you were kidding, I was responding to coldgin. I wanted to find out what we exported besides paint. You have to watch out for me, I Google everything! It's my main form of entertainment. Sadly, I won't live long enough to learn all the things I want to.

I can attest to this. In moments of boredom, Oci has been known to feed the same bit of text through one google translate language and into another, multiple times, until what it finally spits out no longer resembles what went in.

 

[Kent C]

I think they are as long as they are in any way or can be connected in any way to vaping...correct me if i'm wrong please.

The final rule differentiates between 'component or part' and 'accessory'. We tend to combine the two, since 'coils' etc. are sometimes listed as 'accessories' at vendor's websites. However most of those 'accessories' are actually component parts.

From the Final Rule:

"The final rule defines “component or part” and “accessory” to provide additional clarity as to which products are subject to FDA's tobacco product authority.

"Specifically, “Component or Part” means “any software or assembly of materials intended or reasonably expected: (1) To alter or affect the tobacco product's performance, composition, constituents or characteristics; or (2) to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product. The term excludes anything that is an accessory of a tobacco product.” Components and parts of the newly deemed tobacco products, but not their related accessories, are included in the scope of this final rule. The following is a nonexhaustive list of examples of components and parts used with electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) (including e-cigarettes): E-liquids; atomizers; batteries (with or without variable voltage); cartomizers (atomizer plus replaceable fluid-filled cartridge); digital display/lights to adjust settings; clearomisers, tank systems, flavors, vials that contain e-liquids, and programmable software.

"FDA is defining “accessory” to mean “any product that is intended or reasonably expected to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product; does not contain tobacco and is not made or derived from tobacco; and meets either of the following: (1) Is not intended or reasonably expected to affect or alter the performance, composition, constituents, or characteristics of a tobacco product or (2) is intended or reasonably expected to affect or maintain the performance, composition, constituents, or characteristics of a tobacco product but (i) solely controls moisture and/or temperature of a stored product or (ii) solely provides an external heat source to initiate but not maintain combustion of a tobacco product.” Examples of accessories are ashtrays, spittoons, hookah tongs, cigar clips and stands and pipe pouches, because they do not contain tobacco, are not derived from tobacco, and do not affect or alter the performance, composition, constituents, or characteristics of a tobacco product."

 

[StormFinch]

It's SNUS. Eight different flavors or packaging variants...

Which they submitted with Reduced Risk studies, obviously why they got the non-reduced risk PMTAs.

 

[nicnik]

Thank you for filming this Lessifer and making it available for all of us to share

After all this time reading your posts, Lessifer, it was great SEEING you delivering bad news!

 

[Robino1]

For the past year, any time I click on any link that you post to another post on ecf, it'll take me there, but also log me out.

It only happens when the link is posted by you, not others, but there was one time it happened from someone else's post.

I've come to expect that with your links to ecf, and it's almost always worth it to put up with that little buggy thing, so I click, read and log back in.

Hmmmmm...

That is interesting because I have long been having problems with getting logged out.
It's a problem that comes and goes.

I've started a thread in Forum Feedback and Help but I've not gotten a resolution yet.
I can imagine that my problems could possibly be involved in your problems.

My best suggestion, until my links become less toxic...
Right click on them and "open in new tab" might work out better for you...

When we switched over to the new software, we became a secure website. In other words, we now have a link that starts httpS. The old links, that he has kept, have no 's' after the http.

DC, just rebuild the links by putting an 's' after the http. Anyone clicking the old links will get bumped out of ECF. Easy fix.

I fixed the link in your original post. You are going to have to fix them on your end.

Just letting ya all know what causes this.

 

[StormFinch]

Your right,there's that too. I know a lot of people here are to young to remember
but,prior to the smoking bans the issues of where and when to smoke were all
worked out. Smokers,BT,and the majority of the non-smoking were dead set against
the smoking bans. Despite what one might think there was scientific evidence on
both sides of the issue that was equally as compelling. It was during this time one
starting hearing ad nauseam the catch phrase," (insert anything here), funded that study don't trust
it.".
Regards
Mike

Well, compelling until you realize that the grandfather of all second hand smoke studies done by the EPA was cherry picked. I guess they figured if BT could lie about first hand smoke, they could lie about second, and now look at where we are.

 

[Katya]

I am kinda' confused here. This first time around was mentioned before.
When did this happen in the timeline of vaping history?
Regards
Mike

WARNING: This is an old post.

White House OMB rejects FDA's draft regs for e-cigs as too restrictive, tells agency to draft/submit a new proposal

 

[nicnik]

My best suggestion, until my links become less toxic...
Right click on them and "open in new tab" might work out better for you...

That's what I do, but same result. I see Robyn's reply, though.

 

[nicnik]

I just clicked on the photo in the email and it took me to the youtube video posted along with a message on change.org.

No photo in emai, for me. Something about it might not be standards compliant. I use Linux, 'cause it's free and I can't afford the mainstream OS's, but I'm not that good at understanding how it all works.