Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[The Ocelot]

TMI that had really nothing to do with anything! In a nutshell, I posted about my being pregnant with both of my children in 1980 and 1981 and my dr, who was pregnant herself and smoking, didn't blink at it. No one did back then. My second was born 1 1/2 months early - I was told that I went into labor early because I was reaching up to hang curtains!! Ummm....probably not! All in all, everything turned out fine and they were always healthy kids. And I'm not THAT old, I just had my children really young (married at 16 - )

It's only TMI if you don't feel comfortable sharing your story. As I posted before, while there is no "definitive" proof of causation...

what an f-ing co-inky-dink

 

[bigdancehawk]

The contradiction would be avoided, but the absurdity would remain.

The whole thing is absurd, particularly as applied by the FDA to products it was never intended for. If we're in the Wild West, they're Alice in Wonderland.

 

[crxess]

I was commenting on the picture of the white guys lying in the street. Honestly, if that picture popped onto my news feed it wouldn't even register. Maybe it would for someone in that demographic, but not me. I would be far more likely to read a story about Furries pretending to be roadkill when they weren't allowed in a Chuck E. Cheese.

Granted, my demographic is likely small, but my point is we need to reach out to everyone we can.

Just pointing out - WE - have a very diverse demographic...........and I'd bet it would show in a Protest

I can play the part of the elderly Vaper

 

[nicnik]

There is some merit to that. On the other hand, I would be reluctant to encourage a non-smoker to take up vaping. To be honest, I would rather not vape either. The thought of not having a crutch would be something I'd like to try if I thought I could do it.

You might find this article interesting. I did. It's too bad, though, that the author seems unaware that it's not just the nicotine in smoking cigarettes that is addictiing (and she's probably aware that vaping is safer, but maybe not aware of how very much safer).

I, too, have some desires for no longer being dependent , but I'm in no hurry, and still thrilled, after nearly three years, that I no longer smoke cigarettes.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/05/benefits-of-marrying-a-fellow-addict.html

 

[coldgin96]

The whole thing is absurd, particularly as applied by the FDA to products it was never intended for. If we're in the Wild West, they're Alice in Wonderland.

Yeah, I wish they'd wake up!

 

[The Ocelot]

Just pointing out - WE - have a very diverse demographic...........and I'd bet it would show in a Protest

I can play the part of the elderly Vaper

Lol! Elderly? 60 is the new 40.

 

[crxess]

Lol! Elderly? 60 is the new 40.

 

[coldgin96]

You people keep me on here way to long, I gotta go sign on the Xbox to unstress so I can go to sleep by sunrise. Good night!
Stay calm and vape on.

 

[crxess]

You people keep me on here way to long, I gotta go sign on the Xbox to unstress so I can go to sleep by sunrise. Good night!
Stay calm and vape on.

Sleep

 

[The Ocelot]

The whole thing is absurd, particularly as applied by the FDA to products it was never intended for. If we're in the Wild West, they're Alice in Wonderland.

No they are not.

Hey! You! Get offa my cloud!​

 

[SeniorBoy]

... it's just those guys all look the same. We need to reach every demographic we can.

I was commenting on the picture of the white guys lying in the street. Honestly, if that picture popped onto my news feed it wouldn't even register. Maybe it would for someone in that demographic, but not me. I would be far more likely to read a story about Furries pretending to be roadkill when they weren't allowed in a Chuck E. Cheese.

Granted, my demographic is likely small, but my point is we need to reach out to everyone we can.

The pic I posted was circa 1988 from the ACT UP/ACT NOW demonstration. It accurately portrays the affected demo: gay white men. Some folks went to jail. A time in our history when AIDS was devastating the gay community. The FDA was not only dragging it's feet by not introducing/approving new drugs to cure AIDS but also complicit. I lost a friend to this issue!

Citation:
"On October 11, 1988 ACT UP had one of its most successful demonstrations (both in terms of size and in terms of national media coverage) when it successfully shut down the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) for a day.[9][10][11] Media reported that it was the largest such demonstration since demonstrations against the Vietnam War. Source

 

[StormFinch]

ROFL! I don't normally look at what the Motley Fool has to say thanks to their constant money grubbing, but this one caught my eye.

What is the Food & Drug Administration smoking? The agency's recently released electronic cigarettes regulations reveal themselves to be a misguided attempt at protecting the public from the dangers of smoking, but they do little to achieve that goal.

Worse, by effectively destroying the nascent but growing e-cig and vapor industries, the FDA has all but assured it will protect big tobacco companies like Altria (NYSE:MO) and Reynolds American (NYSE:RAI) from competition. In other words, the rules are about what you'd expect government bureaucrats to contrive.

The FDA's Electronic Cigarette Rules Are Here -- and They're Terrible -- The Motley Fool

 

[The Ocelot]

The pic I posted was circa 1988 from the ACT UP/ACT NOW demonstration. Some folks went to jail. A time in our history when AIDS was devastating the gay community. The FDA was not only dragging it's feet by not introducing/approving new drugs to cure AIDS but also complicit. I lost a friend to this issue!

Citation:
"On October 11, 1988 ACT UP had one of its most successful demonstrations (both in terms of size and in terms of national media coverage) when it successfully shut down the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) for a day.[9][10][11] Media reported that it was the largest such demonstration since demonstrations against the Vietnam War. Source

I'm sorry if I upset you. I have the utmost respect for Act Up. You aren't alone in losing loved ones.

I was commenting on the picture in the context of the situation we are looking at today. I meant no disrespect. If a civil disobedient protest is how you want to proceed, more power to you. However, I stand by my belief that what was successful in 1988 isn't going to draw the same kind of attention 28 years later.

 

[Lessifer]

I'm sorry if I upset you. I have the utmost respect for Act Up. You aren't alone in losing loved ones.

I was commenting on the picture in the context of the situation we are looking at today. I mean no disrespect. If a civil disobedient protest is how you want to proceed, more power to you. However, I stand by my belief that what was successful in 1988 isn't going to draw the same kind of attention 28 years later.

I think you're right, society has changed. You used to be able to show people that a group was suffering, and people would care, about strangers. Now, I don't know what it is, society as a "whole" is desensitized. I really do think that if we are going to change the hearts, and then minds, of average non smokers/vapers we need to do it on a personal level. That's not to say it can't be done on a massive scale, but it's going to take a massive effort. It's going to take every one of us reaching the people that we know. Or maybe I'm too much of an optimist in thinking that people actually still care about the people that they know.

 

[salemgold]

Not sure if this tidbit has already been posted here or not. I am sure that it is no surprise to most of us here.

Ex-FDA Commissioner faces RICO charges, helped form e-cig regulations

 

[SeniorBoy]

I'm sorry if I upset you. I have the utmost respect for Act Up. You aren't alone in losing loved ones.

I was commenting on the picture in the context of the situation we are looking at today. I mean no disrespect. If a civil disobedient protest is how you want to proceed, more power to you. However, I stand by my belief that what was successful in 1988 isn't going to draw the same kind of attention 28 years later.

Not really but their is no need to apologize and I'm not upset. If folks are satisfied or perhaps tolerant or resigned to the fact that the media continues to marginalize Vapers and never gives Vapers an equal voice then that's another option and I'm fine with any advocacy method that a person chooses. I would never dissuade any person from engaging in activism in a manner and fashion of their choosing. Ironic in lieu of the CNN vid a few pages back where Greg gets about 30 seconds and the Lung Lady gets multiple minutes to spew her lies with no dialog between them. If you want to change THAT then the most effective solution is to take to the streets. Period! I fail to see the validity to the 28 years thing but that's just me.

If you want meaningful dialog in front of millions of people via the media you only need to look at the Black Lives Matter movement for some parts of the answer. If someone has another method to have say Dr. S engage the Lung Lady about public health then I'm all ears. If someone has another method to get one of "our attorneys" to talk about the legal angels with Jeff Tubin then I'm all ears. If someone has another idea to produce a business centric dialog with our Greg and the opponent on the other side then I'm all ears. If someone has another idea to get our Julie in front of millions of people to tell the story then I'm all ears. Finally, these protests would get even more media attention today. Lots more. Given the 24 hour news cycle, the number of players, and the very competitive nature of the business.

Protests are very hard to organize, control, and garner enough participation to impact the media. Like hurding cats! Are they perfect and without pluses and minuses? No.

Stay Strong! Fight! Stock Up!

 

[HBcorpse]

I think you're right, society has changed. You used to be able to show people that a group was suffering, and people would care, about strangers. Now, I don't know what it is, society as a "whole" is desensitized. I really do think that if we are going to change the hearts, and then minds, of average non smokers/vapers we need to do it on a personal level. That's not to say it can't be done on a massive scale, but it's going to take a massive effort. It's going to take every one of us reaching the people that we know. Or maybe I'm too much of an optimist in thinking that people actually still care about the people that they know.

People always hate me for saying this, but mainstream vaping has helped to essentially murder our collective public image.

With events crazy enough to hold wet T-shirt contests, cloud comps, etc...the cloud crowd has already helped to set the perception of vaping to the general public.

Clouds, exploding batteries, antifreeze, and child killing products. That's what the public thinks of us. So no, they won't care about strangers.

We were outcast as smokers, after 5 decades of studies. We've now been outcast as vapers, after only 5 years of real mainstream use.
The sad part is, vaping is saving our lives, not taking them.

 

[The Ocelot]

I think you're right, society has changed. You used to be able to show people that a group was suffering, and people would care, about strangers. Now, I don't know what it is, society as a "whole" is desensitized. I really do think that if we are going to change the hearts, and then minds, of average non smokers/vapers we need to do it on a personal level. That's not to say it can't be done on a massive scale, but it's going to take a massive effort. It's going to take every one of us reaching the people that we know. Or maybe I'm too much of an optimist in thinking that people actually still care about the people that they know.

I think people still care, but they have sensory overload. They are asked to care about far more things than they can handle.

 

[Lessifer]

People always hate me for saying this, but mainstream vaping has helped to essentially murder our collective public image.

With events crazy enough to hold wet T-shirt contests, cloud comps, etc...the cloud crowd has already helped to set the perception of vaping to the general public.

Clouds, exploding batteries, antifreeze, and child killing products. That's what the public thinks of us. So no, they won't care about strangers.

We were outcast as smokers, after 5 decades of studies. We've now been outcast as vapers, after only 5 years of real mainstream use.
The sad part is, vaping is saving our lives, not taking them.

I somewhat agree, but that's not mainstream vaping. I have nothing against cloud comps, and honestly, I don't even think Joe and Jane public know that stuff really exists, or care.

The real mainstream vapers are the people who don't even come to ECF, or they do, after 6 months of dealing with batteries that need to charge twice a day.

I don't even know if vaping HAS a public face. Most think vaping is part of BT and that's the problem, IMO.

The thing with movements like Black Lives Matter is, you'll get more support from people who would be likely to support you anyway, but it doesn't change anyone's mind. We need to change minds.

 

[crxess]

With events crazy enough to hold wet T-shirt contests, cloud comps, etc...the cloud crowd has already helped to set the perception of vaping to the general public.

Clouds, exploding batteries, antifreeze, and child killing products.

This did not hurt us.............News/Government/Corporate financed Propaganda Running this as if this represented All Vapers is what caused this mentality.

This would equate to All car owners being Maniacs due Drunk Driver incidents.

It was a clearly chosen and targeted strike against a portion of Society once again Deemed unacceptable by some self serving SOB with a God complex. It only takes One, then it Spreads like Cancer.

We are up against the Best Corporate Strategist in history and the Bottom line is their Bottom line