Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[OcalaFlGuy]

I hope the FDA Continues to blow off the Committee.

I hope there's lebbinty nineteen Official Requests they totally blow off.

I am not a lawyer, but I would think them doing that would make Excellent fodder for the Halo and other court case Attorneys.

Those cases are Judge cases, not Jury cases.

The Rule of Law is how a Court runs. ANY Judge is going to take a very dim view of the FDA blowing off a Congressional inquiry that they are legally responsible to reply to.

Hopfully the thought might come to the Judge to relay to the FDA of, You know, if you had responded to any of those lebbinty nineteen Congressional requests, this might have been resolved without you wasting everyone's time in my courtroom.

Keep up the good job FDA.
Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[Yiana]

The science indicating children are attracted to flavors is indisputable. The science
indicating we are all attracted to flavors is just as indisputable.

However there is no science showing,indicating or,even hinting that the flavors in
cigarettes or vapor is attracting them to use the product. One just need to observe
the behavior of their own children to realize that "flavors" are not the be all to end
all factor in what they decide is to their liking. Flavor is a subjective choice not a objective
choice. There was a time when there was only one flavor of cigarette. That was the flavor
of the particular brand you choose to smoke. When flavored cigarettes were banned all
the flavors combined amount to just 6% of the market share.(regular and menthol aside)
These were more expensive and usually only found at tobacco shops and not many other
retail outlets. I never heard one complaint from any smoker about this. The kids certainly
didn't care.

Regards
Mike

I was mad as hell. I remember that dark day in 2009 clearly. I smoked Darjum lights. Cloves...here one day gone the next. I bought all the stock from a couple of stores. One swipe of Obama's signature put an end to them. They worked around it in the form of a cigarello, but I did not want that at all.

This is why when so many people buried their heads in the sand when deeming came up thinking that it would not be ao bad, I knew that it would be worse than what we could think.

 

[crxess]

I found another place to send emails to:

CTP Ombudsman

Sorry, but their Claims of :

While providing this assistance, the Ombudsman’s Office maintains its independence, impartiality, and neutrality.

Very much sounds like a Workers Comp IME Exam
There is absolutely Nothing Independent about an IME hey are almost always Bought and paid off for by the Comp insurer attempting to stop support in cases.

 

[The Ocelot]

"Under the FFDCA, drug and device manufacturers must demonstrate that their products are both safe and effective in order to gain FDA marketing approval. The safety and effectiveness standard poses a difficult challenge for regulating tobacco products, which are manifestly unsafe when used as intended.

"Critics of FDA’s 1996 rule argued that in asserting regulatory authority over tobacco products, the agency would have no choice but to ban them because of their harmful and addictive effects.

"In commenting on the rule, the FDA conceded that tobacco products are “unsafe” as that term is generally understood, but concluded that banning tobacco products was not a realistic option because the health care system would be overwhelmed by more than 40 million nicotine addicts seeking assistance for withdrawal symptoms. Moreover, the agency argued, banning cigarettes would create an enormous black market, which might lead to the use of unregulated and potentially even more harmful products."

I didn't find the report itself all that interesting, but I liked the quote.

FDA Final Rule Restricting the Sale andDistribution of Cigarettes and Smokeless Tobacco (June 24, 2010)
http://www.nacsonline.com/Advocacy/Issues//Tobacco/Documents/CRSReport.pdf

 

[karmakatie]

FDA backtracking on flavors!!
White House scrapped FDA plan to restrict flavored e-cigarettes | Fox News

 

[The Ocelot]

Yeah, and I forgot to add I am using a HH coil... lol

Oops! Make that 15.6 million.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

FDA backtracking on flavors!!
White House scrapped FDA plan to restrict flavored e-cigarettes | Fox News

"The FDA provided pages of data and scientific studies in support of its plan, noting "a dramatic rise in youth and young adult use of typically flavored tobacco products, like e-cigarettes and waterpipe tobacco, and continued youth and young adult use of cigars."

Is it just me or is "young adult" the new FDA buzzword? I sure have been seeing this a lot lately.

 

[The Ocelot]

Sorry, but their Claims of :


Very much sounds like a Workers Comp IME Exam
There is absolutely Nothing Independent about an IME hey are almost always Bought and paid off for by the Comp insurer attempting to stop support in cases.

I don't care if they contact me back, in fact I'd rather they not, I was just thinking of bombarding them with emails.

 

[WharfRat1976]

“We also assume 54 percent of delivery systems and somewhere between 50 and 87.5 percent of e-liquids will not submit a marketing application and will exit the market after the initial compliance period for the submission and FDA receipt of PMTAs ends. The e-liquid share is particularly difficult to predict in view of uncertainties about the number of distinct products currently available on the market.”

Terrific letter Ocelot. Very well thought out.

I'm guessing those percentages are very low. I would think the 54% number would be closer to 90% unless Big Tobacco or their shill buyers start buying up the biggest and most successful manufacturers and submit the approval paperwork and fees. Otherwise that percentage has to be 90% or higher.

The 50% and 87.5% range for eliquid has to be at the very top of that range unless the same thing happens as I stated above.

It's like a blank eye automaton wrote the regulations. There is absolutely zero "feel" to any of the words.

Thanks for posting your letter.

 

[DaveP]

I've written all my representatives in Congress with the canned CASAA letter as well as a couple of second letters with just my story of how I quit a 40 year cigarette habit by switching to vaping. 6 years later, I haven't touched a cigarette and have no desire to ever smoke again because vaping was an effective transition.

So far, all I have gotten is canned replies thanking me for contacting them. There was no mention of the FDA deeming action in their replies, just a recap that explained what they are actually working on at the moment.

I hope that the large numbers of us who are writing and contacting representatives will finally convince them that they need to intervene. I'm sure that some clerical person is intercepting our letters and emails and kicking out form letters in reply. These people are obviously insulated from their constituents. Their response, or lack of it is helping me to form opinions on who I should vote for in the coming election.

 

[Robino1]

One of the good guys:


Skip to about 7 minutes in. He is waiting for people and doesn't really get started until then.

 

[zoiDman]

... Their response, or lack of it is helping me to form opinions on who I should vote for in the coming election.

This is something that Should be Included whenever someone contacts there Reps.

Or ANY Elected Official.

 

[Pamawoman]

Well some good news Barbara Boxer is retiring. Awesome sauce!

 

[HazyShades]

oops, never mind, apparently it's old news..sorry

 

[ckquatt]

One of the good guys:


Skip to about 7 minutes in. He is waiting for people and doesn't really get started until then.

Very nice!! Thanks for posting Robin!!


Sent from my Commodore 64 using Tapatalk

 

[Bronze]

Well some good news Barbara Boxer is retiring. Awesome sauce!

And will be replaced by someone who is just as bad. But one can hope that in her retirement, Ma'am Boxer has as miserable a life as she tried inflicting on us. Good riddance you anti-American pinko!

 

[zoiDman]

One of the good guys:


Skip to about 7 minutes in. He is waiting for people and doesn't really get started until then.

Thank You for posting that Robino1. I believe this is Mr. Faircloth's contact information.

West Virginia House of Delegates

 

[HazyShades]

One of the good guys:


Skip to about 7 minutes in. He is waiting for people and doesn't really get started until then.

Thank you, Robin..Watching it now.
Regards,
Hazy

 

[Rossum]

[...]
I'm thinking it's time to exit stage left...the Czech Republic looks better with each passing day

Up on the Blue Ridge Mountains, there I'll take my stand.

 

[sky4it]

I haven't either. So I am left to surmise. Here is what I surmise and anyone can agree or disagree. Makes no difference to me. If Hillary gets elected the FDA regs stay as written. She has never seen a regulation she didn't like that I know of.

Incorrect. At least on the Regulation front. Of that I'm certain. Most the regulations that your talking about of course, are stuff like anti trust legislation, which if they were in force we probably wouldn't be having conversation right now. You got a small chance to change the regs with Hillary, the problem is, she just doesnt have enough cows in the barn to produce the milk.

If Trump gets elected, I'm not certain but my guess is he'll go along with anything his DHHS secretary tells him (as it relates to vaping). He simply doesn't care enough to make a stand one way or another. But I'm guessing (again) that he'll appoint someone who will be pro vaping. Bottom line, I feel vapers stand a better chance of neutering these regs under Trump than I do Hillary.

You 0 chance of overturning the REGS if Trump is President,IMO. To trust Donald Trump to support the Ecig lobby, is like trying to appoint the hangman as your sheriff.

You got a small chance of overturning, and stalling for 4 years if Hillary is President.

Its about all the displaced people in business. People forget, Hillary is a conservative Democrat. Shes also a person who has compassion. Don't believe all the Hillary's a crook- headlines, that just means she is doing something right and they dont want her.

What your witnessing here is history in the making. It's American Revisionism at its most diabolical hour. Never before has an agency tried to displace 1,000's of business's, some of which have life investments involved, under the bogus banner of public health. How the hell this country can run around preaching freedoms around the world when doing this is beyond road burn. When we were kids we used laugh when some Communist called America "Imperialists." This is imperialism, Ronald Reagan's ghost is in your living room, and now you finally met him. Corporations run everything, from Corporate Doctors to what you can and cant put in your body. Reagan is the one who did it. He got rid of anti-trust laws, and rendered unions obsolete. 30 years later Corporations run everything. Right down to clinics, in tiny towns in Northern Minnesota. Notice that everybody's helper, Barack Obama has done nothing. <<< He's bought and paid for too. People should have known that when Obama selected Joe Biden as his running mate, as if it was done out of some soul searching ideal.

But what do you get out of the Democrats or Republicans thats different? < Damn wake up, they are the same party. So its time to trust the Republicans uhuh? The Democrats are the saw blade, the Republicans the handle. John Edwards was probably the most honest politician to come along in 30 years, and look what they did to him. He's been disgraced, because he had decency in mind, and he wouldn't sell out to the Reagan agenda. The Reagan agenda, was Jack Kennedy's ideal, in the person of Joe Biden. Look it up for your selves in the history books, it was the Kennedy's who started slaughtering unions, and Reagan mowed the rest down. They wanted to become a dynasty, and they do think that they are.

It's been about 15 years since the Enron Scandal. There hasnt been a major corporate scandal since. What does that tell you, that there are no corporate sins? Nope, they are as corrupt as ever. They just got better at hiding it. Damage control. You cant get the SEC to publish a violation of corporate crimes to the news industry if Corporations are out trying to destroy you . <<< That much I know for certain. They dont want no panic in the stock market. You got Joe Biden to thank for that. There never was a piece of dirt, that Joe Biden didnt know how to hide in the name of the Republic. To a guy like Joe Biden, America is God. Dont believe what you read, believe what you know. There probably has been only two clean Presidents since Lyndon Johnson, that would be Jimmy Carter and maybe, George Bush SR, the old man, not the kid. And now when you got an honest one in front of you in Hillary, most people cant even recognize it.

But nobody listens to me. So I quit.

Go luck to you, your going to need it.

I find it rather nostalgic, that people who can be keen to vilify others, but certainly never themselves, when they themselves are placed in the fish barrel and the person starring back at them is now a villain, they simply refuse to acknowledge the mirror. And sure its not your mirror, but welcome to being, becoming and noticing what you ain't. It's not so bad really, you just have to learn to live with it. You see that is what you are now is a bunch of villains, wether you think so or not. And they are going to prove that to you, and make you eat it. The people amongst you that are the best, they will make them look the worst. Welcome to the America I live in. You aint the first ones, and you aint going to be the last. I think Jesus Christ had it right, "Judge not, lest you be judged." I mean, some of you do understand don't you? Some of you sound like counter revolutionaries. Wait till they put your mug on it, then smile for the camera.

BTW, thanks, ECF, I think I'll keep my 20 bucks.

Hey KENT, your the expert on these REGS. I would appreciate if you would start thread in the FDA section, to give us some answers on this stuff. I like to know specifically if you can give us an idea when we cant buy Nicotine at home anymore. Is it going to be 2 years or is it going to be 2 months? And all the other stuff. I'm not around much, but I always look for your comments on this stuff. And I do try and follow it, by reading yours and DC's take on all this. Sorry, buddy its not a paying job, but I appreciate your hard work. I noticed somebody also mentioned thats its possible after products are deemed tobacco products, UPS and USPS will not be able ship them. Is this factual? That would mean we got months not 2 years. And what about Fasttech and Focalecig, surely they wont be registered to sell tobacco products, when will there shipments cease? I dont want to hit the panic button you know, but is there one? The interstate shipping of "tobacco products" probably could be the hangman so to speak?

There are really some oddities in all this:
1) That government would have waited so long to do this with thousands of businesses at risk and jobs at stake: shows the unbelievable callous & reckless, negligent nature of government.

The timing of this is particularly cruel, considering for over 2 years business's have been expanding.
2) That in a democracy law can be enacted without so much as one single elected official making the law.
3) Criminalizing businesses that are going concerns, is a bit shocking. It's not like prohibition where the moral sentiment against the alcohol industry was apparent.
4) That the FDA will cause more injuries to people then protect safety seems to be a given. (Not even counting the science arguments about the safety of vaping.) People who cant afford quality vape mods, will purchase low quality street ware which are inadequately designed.


"Oh dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light." - Sandy Denny